Filter outlet spray bar and water circulation for plants

[clsh]

Hi,

tankSetup.jpg

Attached is my tank setup..
Wanted to give HC a shot.. If I fail.. I will move on to MC.. lol

A few disturbing questions about my setup...

1) The spray bar position.
Should it be above or below water level ?
If its below water level, there will be no bubbles.. (Heard people mentioned about breaking water surface for gas exchange?.. The more i read, the more confused i am.. lol)
If its above water level, circulation will be weak..

2) Will the drift wood hinder water circulation? Good water circulation is required to bring nutrients to all the plants right? (but mine is just a small tank..)

3) Do i need to add circulator pump (like the koralia nano?) for... such a small tank?
The water in my tank is crystal clear though.. no fishes yet.. Just a couple of amano shrimps to clear dead leaves, algae if any.. etc.. and to provide some ammonia so that BB got work to do...

4) I am dosing Seachem Excel (1ml) daily and Flourish (1ml) every 3~4days..
Photo period 8hrs with 18W LED
Been 2 weeks.. HC doesnt seem to be dying.. pale~mild green and no pearling..
Is this environment okay for HC ?
On the sideline... my java fern looks very healthy.


Hope to get some opinions/advises..

Thanks!

[Urban Aquaria]

1) If you are injecting Co2 (high-tech setup), then its better to position the spraybar below the water surface, creates some ripples but no splashing, helps to reduce off-gassing of the injected Co2 to the atmosphere.

If you are not injecting Co2 (low-tech setup), then its better to position the spraybar above the water surface, so that the additional surface agitation helps to both oxygenate and mix some Co2 from the atmosphere into the water.

Or you can also just position the spraybar halfway above and below the water level, get abit more surface agitation yet not too much, though you'll have to top up water regularly to maintain that consistent water level.

2) How much circulation the driftwood blocks depends on its shape and size, i guess you'll just have to check the circulation pattern and see if there is a need to adjust anything.

3) Since your layout looks relatively simple (based on the diagram), and its not full of tall rocks and tangles of wood, its probably not necessary to use additional wave makers or powerheads in tanks (though if you find a need for it, then just install a set and see if it improves the circulation).

An alternative to wave makers is to use a surface skimmer instead (ie. Eheim Skim 350 or Ocean Free Surf Clear), you can position its output to provide additional circulation to parts of the tank and it also helps to clear oil film and debris from the water surface too, 2 jobs done in one unit.

4) You didn't mention whether your tank has Co2 injection, so i'll assume it doesn't have it. If thats the case, you'll just to factor in that the HC growth will naturally be slower paced in low-tech setups. Excel helps supplement liquid carbon and will help improve plant growth, but overall growth speed still wouldn't be as fast as with actual Co2 injection.

Java ferns are hardy and do well in low-tech tank environments, so it'll usually not encounter much issues.

[clsh]

Hi UA,

I am not injecting CO2 at the moment...

Will monitor progress.. if really really need,.. maybe i will get the Fluval CO2 Kit ?
If I add CO2, i guess i need to increase my lighting as well..

bubbles.jpg

I am pointing the spray bar towards the back glass.. before it enters the water at the moment.. so there is no splashing.
It creates bubbles when it enters the water.

My observation is that those real tiny tiny bubbles resulted from the spray bar floats about freely in the light blue region (pls refer to attached image). Bigger bubbles will rise to the surface and not linger around..

In the dark blue region.. there is not much.. or no bubbles at all..
My drift wood + java fern is quite high.. the highest fern actually reaches the surface of the water..

[Urban Aquaria]

If you plan to get a Co2 system, better to just straight-away get the complete setups with solenoid regulator... the fluval beginner ones with manual regulators may be cheaper initially, but work out more costly on the long run due to having to keep buying replacement cartridges, and you have to manually switch it on and off everyday.

You could still use your current lights with Co2 injection, the lights drive carbon and nutrient intake, so with carbon limitation lifted and sufficient nutrients, the plants will be able to maximize your existing light availabilty. If you want to further speed up plant growth, then can look at increasing light, Co2 injection and nutrients dosing together in a balanced manner.

Based on your tank layout, it'll be better to direct the spraybar outlets towards the front glass, so that the water flow travels across the surface, hits the front glass, flows down, and then flow across the substrate to the back (sort of like a circular pattern if you view it from the side)... in that way all the plants get nutrients carried to them (rather than just the background plants). It'lI also push waste and debris to the back of the tank where the intake can draw them in.

I think it would be better if you can post a photo of your tank.... the 2D diagram and descriptions are abit difficult for readers to visualize the actual layout.

[clsh]

Hi UA,

Thanks for your comments.. Doing my homework on CO2 system now..
Will post pic if my HC dont melt.. Keeping my fingers crossed..

Cheers!

[clsh]

Getting worried that my HC are melting..
Amano shrimp uprooted some and i noticed that part of the "stems" turned brown... (Is that the reason why amanos attack it?)

If HC really cant make it...
Will it work if i change to Monte Carlo (MC) without CO2 injection ?

[Urban Aquaria]

Yeah, mixing amano shrimps with HC that is still establishing does tend to result in uprooted plants, the HC roots are not secure enough yet... the melting parts would usually be picked upon and eaten by the shrimps too (its part of the clean up crew job anyways).

Changing to MC would be better if you are not using Co2 injection, it is more adaptable to low-tech tank environments (HC is much more difficult to grow without Co2 injection).

[clsh]

very very tempted to get a CO2 system..
i am on the verge... basket.. this is poisonous..

[Urban Aquaria]

very very tempted to get a CO2 system..
i am on the verge... basket.. this is poisonous..

Definitely go for it!

Once you experience the difference in plant growth and condition with Co2 injection, its difficult to turn back to low-tech setups.

[clsh]

Gone high tech setups for 3 days already.
Photo period 8hrs daily.
CO2 set at about 1.5 bps

The java fern windelov were seen pearling underneath its leaves... but the HC still looks pale.
Worried about the health of HC..

Any advise?

[Urban Aquaria]

If Co2 injection is showing improved growth and pearling in other plants, but HC is somehow still not doing so well, then the next factor to look into is nutrients. If you are not using nutrient-rich aquasoil (ie. ADA Amazonia) or the soil nutrients are depleted, you'll have to dose fertilisers to supplement the nutrient content in the water column, or add fertiliser root sticks/tabs into the substrate.

If both Co2 and nutrients are well supplied but HC growth is still poor, then the next factor to consider is light... HC is very low lying on the substrate level and the furthest from the lights (compared to java fern which is taller and closer to the lights), so if your light spectrums and intensity are not sufficient to reach the substrate level, the HC may not be receiving enough of it to grow too.

[clsh]

Hi UA,

I am dosing Seachem Excel 1ml daily and Flourish 1ml every 3~4 days..
As such, do i still need to add fertiliser root sticks/tabs into the substrate??

[Urban Aquaria]

Hi UA,

I am dosing Seachem Excel 1ml daily and Flourish 1ml every 3~4 days..
As such, do i still need to add fertiliser root sticks/tabs into the substrate??

It'll depend on whether you are using a substrate with high nutrient content, like ADA Amazonia aquasoil, and whether it still has ample nutrients for the rooted carpet plants... if you suspect that the soil is low on nutrients, then adding fertiliser sticks or tablets can help supplement essential nutrients that the HC need to grow.

Your current dosing of Flourish supplies mainly micro/trace nutrients with a very tiny percentage of macro nutrients, so if you see the plant condition exhibiting shortages of certain nutrients (ie. nitrogen, phosphates, potassium, iron etc), you may need to dose more of those.

Can refer to this chart: http://infographics.myaquacalc.com/w...y-labeled2.jpg

[clsh]

Hi UA,

Thanks for the advise.
Bought and dosed macro nutrients over the weekend.
Hope the plants will "Flourish" as they are supposed to..