Green Dust..Hmmmm..

[ranmasatome]

Well...did a water change today and saw that the glass was green dusted...

so i read thru the forums and it was reccommended that you scrub then change as much water as possible cos you remove the spores.... well...
Came up with a better solution....at least i think it is a better solution... just wanna share..

Change as much water as you want...but preferably more that 50% first.. then for the green dust under the water...scrub the glass and suck water out at the same time. The layer of green dust above the water is easy. Since you dont want the spores to go into the water.. i took a piece of DRY absorbent cloth and dipped a 1/8 of it in water just so it is slightly moist then just clean the glass... since green dust comes off so easily..it'll all get caught onto the cloth and you end up with one dark green layer on the cloth..
Finally just to be sure...wiped it over again with a new clean piece of cloth.
Hopefully this works..lol...i think it should minimise the number of spores going into the water no?

[neon]

My 6' tank green spot is very rampant. It will come out within 1-2 days, and by the 3-4 days the green spot algae are very visible. Drained 80% water and wipe clean with kitchen towel for the 4-sides above water. Those underneath water basically scrap with Credit Card, and anything green dust float on top will be drained with the skimmer.

I am using MH 150w x 2 , 10hr daily,and hang ~ 2ft above water . High CO2 (as suggested by Peter Gwee as long as the critters are ok). NO3 15ppm, PO4 ~2ppm, K 15ppm - 3 times weekly. Micro - 2 times weekly.

WC once a week 80%. Previously , as suggested by Peter to do WC every 2-3 days , and did this for 2 weeks period, but the no improvement.

Anybody has better solution to advise on the rampant green spot issue shall be appreciated.

Thanks !

Cheers
CHOK

[ranmasatome]

green spot and gree dust are different problems leh...

[vinz]

Both are indications of low PO4. Try doubling the PO4 dose.

[PeterGwee]

My 6' tank green spot is very rampant. It will come out within 1-2 days, and by the 3-4 days the green spot algae are very visible. Drained 80% water and wipe clean with kitchen towel for the 4-sides above water. Those underneath water basically scrap with Credit Card, and anything green dust float on top will be drained with the skimmer.

I am using MH 150w x 2 , 10hr daily,and hang ~ 2ft above water . High CO2 (as suggested by Peter Gwee as long as the critters are ok). NO3 15ppm, PO4 ~2ppm, K 15ppm - 3 times weekly. Micro - 2 times weekly.

WC once a week 80%. Previously , as suggested by Peter to do WC every 2-3 days , and did this for 2 weeks period, but the no improvement.

Anybody has better solution to advise on the rampant green spot issue shall be appreciated.

Thanks !

Cheers
CHOK

CHOK, how high is your CO2? How stable is it at that "high" level? I feel that you have CO2 stability and responsive issues if those nutrients were dosed and not based off readings from test kits. You can consider the design of Tom Barr's internal reactor with venturi which I found to be very good and responsive. For your tank, go with 3 units of those. Get 3 x 2" x 6" tubes and power each of them with powerheads of 120-200 gal/hr or so. Watch how fast it gets the CO2 back up to 30ppm from a large 50% water change. It should not take longer than an hour or so if the system is setup to be good and responsive. The CO2 system should be able to keep it at 30ppm throughout the photoperiod thereafter.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[wong1979]

My tank has been visited by the green dust from hell too. Remained in there for like almost 1/2 to 1 year? Decrease my lighting, stop my CO2, and procrastinate and voila....gone! It's been about 1/2 a year now and all is well.

BTW, my tank specs as follows:
2ft in length, 1.5ft for width and height
Lighting 32W PL for 10 hrs
Water change: 1/5 every 4 days.
Fertilisation: Everyday, small amount of liquid. More after water change.
CO2: Nil
Plants: Crypt, ferns, mosses, lotus, pearl grass.
Fish: About 20 small rasboras, 30-40 shrimps, few otos, 2 fake SAEs and plenty of snails
NO3: Remains in the moderate range.
Phosphate: no idea
Feeding: minimal

Till now, I still don't know what causes it Maybe you could just wait and see how like me

[Plantbrain]

Wong, this method does work also.
I did this a couple of times by accident.
I was pissed off because I just got the Green dust growing.
Then I go and kill it.

GSA=> CO2 if the PO4 s in the 2ppm range.
That's the only other variable.

Your tank will do well if you increase the CO2 or stabilize it more.

But a large water change, wiping the glass down and doing a few water changes back to back and wiping the glass will knock it out GD through brute force of water changes.

I've done this a few times now.
There are at least 2 ways to get rid of it listed here now.

Regards,
Tom Barr


3rd annual Plant Fest July 8-14th 2005!
[email protected] Get connected
www.BarrReport.com Get the information

[neon]

Wong, this method does work also.
I did this a couple of times by accident.
I was pissed off because I just got the Green dust growing.
Then I go and kill it.

GSA=> CO2 if the PO4 s in the 2ppm range.
That's the only other variable.

Your tank will do well if you increase the CO2 or stabilize it more.

But a large water change, wiping the glass down and doing a few water changes back to back and wiping the glass will knock it out GD through brute force of water changes.

I've done this a few times now.
There are at least 2 ways to get rid of it listed here now.

Regards,
Tom Barr


3rd annual Plant Fest July 8-14th 2005!
[email protected] Get connected
www.BarrReport.com Get the information

Tom:

Follow as suggested by Peter on high CO2. I have increased CO2 so high that the PH measure around 5.7-5.8 now. I even raised the MH lights (2x150w) ~ 2 ft above the water, light on 10hr a day.
Tank parameter : 6x2x2 , dKH 4-5, PH 5.7-5.8 throughout light off and light on
light : 2 x150w MH , ~2 ft above water
dosage : PMDD Macro x 3 weekly, NO3 15ppm, PO4 1.5-2ppm, K 15ppm
Micro x 2 weekly, Fe 0.5ppm , and other trace
dKH : 2 tablespoon to reach 4-5dKH after WC.
WC : once a week 70% . Drained then mop tank glass with kitchen towel.
Previously had tried for 2 weeks period, WC every 2-3 days 80%, mop with towel, but no improvement). After each WC at late night 30mins before light off, I will not dose anything , instead run the UV light until early morning, then dose nutrient. The UV light is ONLY used on the night after WC , run until early morning.

Green dust is now very rampant on every side of the tank, and front expose gravel now . It will come out within 1-2 days and become very visible on 3-4 days.


Thanks in advance.

Cheers
CHOK

[mordrake]

CHOK, why don't you try reducing your light duration?
i was getting algae problems with 10hr MH lighting even when my co2 is good and consistant.
after reducing it to 7 hrs, the algae problem is a whole lot better.
my tank is 6x2x2.5ft (LxWxH) and 3x150W mh

[FC]

I had fighted GD for a long time, at least 2 years. I had to clean the glass every 4 days, it was real works and little fun. My conclusions are:
1) water change does not help because this GD require just few spores to cause rampant growth in less than 5 days. And one can never get rid of all in any cleaning and WC methods.
2) PO4 or CO2 may not be the only cure because I had both in sufficient concentrations.
3) seasoned water (no/minimum water change), balanced fertilizations, shorter light period and couple with ramhorn snails are my cure to my years of headaches.

Now, I have no more GD but mild spot algae which require cleaning every 2~3 weeks. Try that, it takes about a month to get the water seasoned. Another side benifit is the water is very very clear after a month of no water change. Just top up water, keep minimum fishes and feed sparingly.

[neon]

I had fighted GD for a long time, at least 2 years. I had to clean the glass every 4 days, it was real works and little fun. My conclusions are:
1) water change does not help because this GD require just few spores to cause rampant growth in less than 5 days. And one can never get rid of all in any cleaning and WC methods.
2) PO4 or CO2 may not be the only cure because I had both in sufficient concentrations.
3) seasoned water (no/minimum water change), balanced fertilizations, shorter light period and couple with ramhorn snails are my cure to my years of headaches.

Now, I have no more GD but mild spot algae which require cleaning every 2~3 weeks. Try that, it takes about a month to get the water seasoned. Another side benifit is the water is very very clear after a month of no water change. Just top up water, keep minimum fishes and feed sparingly.

FC,

Don't really get what you mean here. Totally no water change ? Just top up water ? As my water level is not reducing greatly as I am running a chiller. Are you using PMDD ? How much PPM do you dose for NPK and trace ? The freq of dosing ? What is your lighting WPG ? and duration per day.

Cheers
CHOK

[FC]

Yes, you heard it. I change water only when I stir up the ground during re-planting or pruning which causes debris to float.

I use powders and liquid traces. The fertilization concentrations are the same as what are recommended by experts here. The only different is with no/minimum water change, you need to understand your plant consumptions. This is good because you will learn more about your plants needs and not simply dump fertilisers and reset every week (I am not saying that is bad, it works and served well for many beginers). One thing for certain, you will need to dose less which is good. Keep traces dosing once a week and no more than recommended dosage would help reduce/subdue GD.

You use chiller, you have little or no top-up required. For this case, if you use the no-water change method, you need to add Ca and Mg because most commercial fertilizers do not have these. The fertliser makers assumed that hobbyists would have that from water change (most household water sources have sufficient Ca & Mg). Just add half fistful of coral chips to your filter to provide Ca, it will last for at least 3 months. Then add MgSO4 weekly to add Mg. You will experience very clear water after 3 weeks of no water change.

Light per water volume depends on how you want to shape your plant. Example, high light would keep the plants low and sustain dense growth. You would not want to compromise such objectives. However, you can help by shortening the light hours eg. from 10 to 8 hrs. If you want to do that, do it very gradually, spread over 2 weeks or more.

Add ramhorn snails.

Have filter that is sized for your tank. If not sure, get the one with larger media volume. Choose one which pump at 1~3 times the volume of your water in an hour.

[neon]

Yes, you heard it. I change water only when I stir up the ground during re-planting or pruning which causes debris to float.

I use powders and liquid traces. The fertilization concentrations are the same as what are recommended by experts here. The only different is with no/minimum water change, you need to understand your plant consumptions. This is good because you will learn more about your plants needs and not simply dump fertilisers and reset every week (I am not saying that is bad, it works and served well for many beginers). One thing for certain, you will need to dose less which is good. Keep traces dosing once a week and no more than recommended dosage would help reduce/subdue GD.

Care to share your tank parameter ? Light (watt/g) , tank dimension, NPK ppm and freq, micro ppm and freq . Should I reduce the CO2 , I think my current CO2 level easily hit 80-100ppm as my dKH 4 and PH 5.7-5.8

You use chiller, you have little or no top-up required. For this case, if you use the no-water change method, you need to add Ca and Mg because most commercial fertilizers do not have these. The fertliser makers assumed that hobbyists would have that from water change (most household water sources have sufficient Ca & Mg). Just add half fistful of coral chips to your filter to provide Ca, it will last for at least 3 months. Then add MgSO4 weekly to add Mg. You will experience very clear water after 3 weeks of no water change.

I tried not to use Coral chip as it alter the PH reading and hard to measure CO2 subsequently.

Light per water volume depends on how you want to shape your plant. Example, high light would keep the plants low and sustain dense growth. You would not want to compromise such objectives. However, you can help by shortening the light hours eg. from 10 to 8 hrs. If you want to do that, do it very gradually, spread over 2 weeks or more.

My plants :
front - hairgrass, HC,crypt
middle - drift wood with lots of Java fern, fern, narrow leaf jave fern, taiwan moss
back - C balansae
Right now I am using 2x 150w MH and hang 2 ft above water. Tank 6x2x2.

Add ramhorn snails.

Currently I have about 6 horn snails and 1 zebra snail. Is ramhorn more effective the rest of snails ? I find oto is hopeless.

Have filter that is sized for your tank. If not sure, get the one with larger media volume. Choose one which pump at 1~3 times the volume of your water in an hour.

I am using Eheim 2260 and changed to 1262 pump (3400L/h) , I think is more than enough. ~10 kg of biohome , ~80 bioballs, few layers of filter wool and sponge.

[neon]

After all the EI and high CO2 (4dKH, PH 5.8-5.9), green dust remained rampant.

Noticed many leaves tips turning brown like covered with brown dust. Are they caused by the green dust spore ? I can rub them off if rub hard enough, but they cover in my java fern, hair grass tips, crypt balansae tips, taiwan moss and weeping moss are turning brown.

Some crypt and nana leaves and stems shows sign of BBA.

Now I reduced my lighting hours (MH) to 9 hrs from 10hrs over 4 days already after the last water change.

Green dust rampant has reduce slightly - not as fast as previously , but still clearly visible when view from the side onto the front glass.

I have reduced the lighting period with the few timers :

My lights :

<-------------------- 5.5 ft --------------------->
(------150w MH------- 110W PL-----150w MH---)

1) My middle 110 W PL light turn on for first hour only
2) my (2x150w) MH (left and right side) from 2nd hr onward for 9 hrs

Any thing else wrong with the dosing, lighting,CO2 routine ? I did not have enough time to come up with the Tom's venturi design as suggested by Peter , since my last DIY on the 2ft (length) x 2 inch (diameter) reactor like bro |Squee| . I don't see any more bubbles come out to my rainbar even I crank up very very high CO2 (sound like boiling water).

layout of the reactor :

tank --> 2262 eheim filter (3400L/hr) --> CO2 reactor --> UV --> Chiller --> 2 rainbars located at the bottom of the tank back glass blowing toward the front.

If CO2 is not consistent high, and thru early injection of CO2 before lighting plus high bubble count, as the PH remains very low around 5.8 - 5.9,
it should provide sufficient CO2 even though suspecting the reactor system response time may not be fast enough .

Cheers

[mordrake]

why don't you layout this way?

tank --> 2262 eheim filter (3400L/hr) --> chiller --> CO2 reactor --> 2 rainbars located at the bottom of the tank back glass blowing toward the front.
use another much lower flowrate powerhead for your UV.

do u hv anything that'll lower your pH in your tank like driftwood?
if your pH, co2 levels are right, it's strange that the green dust would be so rampant will your plants getting hit. fyi, i'm only using a 2028 hooked up to chiller ->reactor.
another 2028 for surface skimmer with UV. then an eden 228 for water circulation.

i hv 3x150w mh (7hrs) for my 6ft with good co2 levels, dosings and i only have minimal algae problems.
so i would really doubt your co2 levels.

[neon]

why don't you layout this way?

tank --> 2262 eheim filter (3400L/hr) --> chiller --> CO2 reactor --> 2 rainbars located at the bottom of the tank back glass blowing toward the front.
use another much lower flowrate powerhead for your UV.

This was what I setup previously using NA external reactor, and I could see bubbles came out on rainbars. I DIY another reactor as described earlier, and place after the 2262, reason being is to prolong/retain CO2 in the water by flowing thru various hardware (UV,Chiller). The result now, I don't see bubbles come out at the rainbar, even if I increase the CO2 bubble count tremendously. Whether CO2 the response is good or not, is another story. At least no CO2 is purged out thru the rainbars.

do u hv anything that'll lower your pH in your tank like driftwood?
if your pH, co2 levels are right, it's strange that the green dust would be so rampant will your plants getting hit. fyi, i'm only using a 2028 hooked up to chiller ->reactor.
another 2028 for surface skimmer with UV. then an eden 228 for water circulation.

Does driftwood lower PH ? When I increase my CO2 count very very high and PH drop down to 5.6, I can see my shrimp and some fishes are going crazy. I think that is the limit already and at that CO2 level, green dust remains rampant. Now I adjust PH upto 5.8-5.9.

I am also using ATMAN internal filter (400-500L/h) for the water circulation at mid level. I can see water is moving and circulating in the tank as anything at the top surface is circulating around the tank.

i hv 3x150w mh (7hrs) for my 6ft with good co2 levels, dosings and i only have minimal algae problems.
so i would really doubt your co2 levels.

I really envy those who don't face this issue. I see that you are running for 7 hrs only. What types of plants you have in your tank , any driftwood , type of gravel and base fertilizer, PH , dKH , dosing freq of NPK, Fe and Frequency ?

Thanks for sharing !

Cheers
CHOK

[mordrake]

I really envy those who don't face this issue. I see that you are running for 7 hrs only. What types of plants you have in your tank , any driftwood , type of gravel and base fertilizer, PH , dKH , dosing freq of NPK, Fe and Frequency ?

Thanks for sharing !

Cheers
CHOK

plants : echinodorus plants like ozelot, oriental, tenellus etc. lots of crypts, nanas, Limnophila aromatica, java ferns, moss, red tiger lotus, queen of siam, etc... can't name all of them

wood: 3 big pieces, each ard 2ft+ when laid down.

base fert: jbl aquabasis
gravel : lapis
pH: 5.8~6.0
KH: 2-3 (using AP test kit. the yellow should be light yellow or goldie yellow to count?)

dosing twice a week: 20ppm of KNO3, 2ppm PO4, 60ml lushgro aqua & 10ml micros.

i think my low pH is due to the wood.
a pic of my setup, after a trimming and water change.

[ranmasatome]

Neon.. i think you should try lowering your light hours...instead of doing it over 4 days and having such high light housr..why dont you just have it constant and lower the hours... as Tom mentioned time and time again...more light does not equal better... higher light also equals higher uptake and makes the system more sensitive to a screwup if any, on your part.

[FC]

Chok (Is that your name?),

Do not use sodium bi-carbonate for KH. Use half fistful of coral chip and place it in your filter. It will increase the KH reading very gradually and stabilise at about 2 degree, depending on your CO2 level. Don't hear say, try it.

Get more ramhorn snails. otto is useless for GD.

I would say pump of about 2500L/h is enough for your setup with chiller.

I am skeptical about your KH and PH readings. Do you use solenoid? If yes, how long you turn on an when. For your tank and light on pattern mentioned, you should turn on 1~1.5 hours before (the PL) light on and turn off 0.5~1 hours before (the last) light off. Bubble per second should be around 7. You cannot rely on visual (you eyes cannot count that fast), use hearing. How?
- place a long screw driver with the handle touching your face just next to the ear.
- place the other end of the screw driver on the bubble counter body.
- Now you can clearly hear the bubbles.
- count number of bubbles per 15 seconds, you should get about 105.

I agree with Melvin on the reactor position after the chiller. I know what you are trying to acheive, you should use a good reactor instead, if not DIY using the tap water filter canister, the best you can get. No bubbles do not equate good mixing. Bubbles are often not the undesolved CO2 but nitrogen from the impurity (of the gas tank) and filter bacteria activities.

As for NPK and Mg, go for say, add 10/1/15/2 ppm per dose. Need not measure with test kits. 1~2 dose is enough. Trace add about 1/2 the recommended dose, once a week. Try it before you doubt it.