Setup for breeding Mikrogeophagus ramirezi

[Puffer]

I am going to convert my current 2 feet moss tank into the breeding ground for my pair of german rams. Here are the little details for my intended new setup:

Tank: 2ft x 1ft x 1.5ft
Filtration: An ordinary internal filter + a sponge filter
Parameters:
- Temperature: 27 degree celcius (w/o fan), 25 degree celcius (with fan). (Thought of not using fan as too noisy in my study room).
- PH: 6.5, GH and KH: ?
- CO2: DIY
- Lighting: Atman PL 2 x 36w (Photoperiod: 12-10pm)
Substrate: Mixture of soil (base), Mr Aqua (mid-layer), and used Sera peat (top layer)
Flora: mostly java moss, a few anubias nanas and short crypts
Fauna: a pair of german rams, 2 x otos, maybe 2 x crs?? (crs are low grade ones which are currently in the tank)

Is the above setup ok? What sorts of fert regime should I adopt? Anything else I should take note of? Thanks in advance.

[genes]

You setup will be fine for breeding rams. However, you will lose your CRS so i suggest you remove them. I fertilize my low light tank with ferka ferts 3 times a week and my apisto will still spawn.

[Puffer]

Thanks Eugene, I will remove the CRS. Forgot to add that I will have a medium sized lava rock and a few large pebbles, hopefully the pebbles could be the spawning site for the pair.

[genes]

There is a possibility that the female will attach the eggs on the pebble surface. However, she may dig a cave under the lava rock to lay the eggs too. Generally, they like to spawn in enclose areas where there is minimal disturbance from the outside environment and maximum protection from would be predators.

[Puffer]

Based from what I've read, I thought rams lay eggs on open flat surface such as on substrate, leaves and pebbles? They do not lay eggs in caves unlike Apistos right? I have an intended lava rock with several holes large enough for the size of a ram to enter. Also got a few flat-surfaced pebbles/stones. Hope all these help. By the way, the ram female is displaying enhanced redness so I better work fast to get the breeding tank ready soon.

[Puffer]

Finally transferred the pair into a revamped 2ft breeding tank. The pair is still acclimatising in the new environment. Notice the female has a white thing protruding below her belly, could it be an egg? I saw this before their first spawn earlier. Anyway, hope they can enjoy peace and spawn soon.

[genes]

Based from what I've read, I thought rams lay eggs on open flat surface such as on substrate, leaves and pebbles? They do not lay eggs in caves unlike Apistos right?

Oops, sorry, my fault. I was thinking apistos when i wrote that. . Yes, you are right, Rams are open spawners.

[valice]

Although they are open spawners, they will still dig a small little "crater" and then they lay the eggs inside. So there will be abit of "renovations" that they will do in your tank.

[Puffer]

Hi Eugene, it's alright as I thought you might have made the error thinking of Apistos, and I'm right. May go into Apistos in the near future if I can be successful with rams first.

Vincent, it would be interesting to see the pair create that little 'crater' although I don't get to see this in the first spawn. They actually spawned on a leaf. Do rams like to shift their eggs around often before hatch?

Fellows, guess what? This morning, I saw eggs all over the top of my little rock. I'm glad they spawned within 12 hours after being introduced into a new surrounding. Perhaps the female was already in the verge of releasing eggs, that's why. Hope to keep you guys updated on the development. Hope this time the spawn can be successful.

[Puffer]

Today's the third day. Disappointed to see most of the eggs turned white and fungused. Don't the parents remove the fungused eggs to prevent spreading to other eggs? Is there anything I could help to remove the fungused eggs?

[mobile2007]

Bro, any pics taken for your pair of rams? still thinking of getting a pair of ram to try out.

[nature beauty]

Hi Roy,
Sad to hear that your eggs was not doing well. I too was worried when i transfer my ram to the new tank this morning to my horror my female ram was trap in between my moss wall!!!
Lucky able to save her life in time will be going home to revamp the moss wall later hopefully everything will be ok after that.
Btw I too keep 2 female endlers in my tank hopefully it will help to save the female from being chase and bitten

[stormhawk]

Today's the third day. Disappointed to see most of the eggs turned white and fungused. Don't the parents remove the fungused eggs to prevent spreading to other eggs? Is there anything I could help to remove the fungused eggs?

If it is the first spawn the pair is generally inexperienced, so the eggs will usually not be tended to carefully, and sometimes will be infertile because the male did not successfully fertilise all the eggs laid by the female. I have never had Rams spawn for me, though I'm close now, just need the male, but I did experience the infertile and fungus eggs thing with my Apistogramma in the past.

If you wish to save the next batch and hatch them separately from the parents, remove the rock the parents laid the eggs on slowly out of the tank. Make sure you place the rock in a plastic tray or container and ensure that the eggs are not exposed to open air while you are taking the rock out. Transfer the rock to a nursery tank containing the same water from the spawning tank, and place an airstone near the rock. Again, do not expose the eggs to the open air under any circumstances. The water current generated by a soft stream of bubbles from the airstone is sufficient to mimic the parents' gentle fanning of the eggs. This ensures the eggs are sufficient oxygenated.

At the same time, add some methylene blue to the nursery tank water, just enough to tint the water a slight blue. It should be really pale blue, a drop or two is enough if the tank is a 1 footer. The methylene blue will prevent the fungus from spreading to the healthy eggs. Do not touch the fungused eggs though. If you try and remove them manually, and burst the fungused egg by accident, the fungus will spread faster to the remaining eggs.

Try it if you wish to raise the fry in a separate tank, although preferably they should remain with the parents. I've done this successfully in the past with my Corydoras and Angelfish, so I figure you can try it for the Rams.

[Puffer]

Hello Stormhawk, thanks for the detailed explanation...I will definitely try this method. I've done artificial raising of discus before but didn't know if this would work for rams! Got to dig out old stuff i.e. mthylene blue etc.
As far as I know, this is the 2nd spawn. I saw many fungused eggs yesterday but now the rock surface is swept clean. Saw a few wrigglers but they went into the mother's mouth, then she disappeared into the hole in lava rock. I would suppose the pair is keeping the wrigglers in the rock, but they don't seem to be guarding. I shall wait for a couple more days. Let me know if you've got your pair. I'm going to NA and Colourful this weekend and will look out for you.

[stormhawk]

Thanks for the lookout Rob. Remember the tip with the Methylene blue usage. A single drop should be sufficient to tint the water in a 1 foot tank bluish. For the nursery tank you can just use a small plastic tank. In fact you can use that same tank to lift out the rock with the eggs on it from the spawning tank. Less work too..

I usually do this with methylene blue:

Get a small plastic container, use 1 drop of M.Blue. Then I dilute the tinted water under running tap water until it becomes only a weak tint. The weak solution is sufficient to prevent the fungus from spreading until the fry hatch. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not.

As for the mother taking the wrigglers, I believe she has moved the survivors to a safer location. She might not be guarding them to reduce the attention from any predators. If they notice the mother hovering close by, they might somehow find out the location of the surviving fry. 50-50 chance that the wrigglers are still alive. I hope they are.

[Puffer]

Hi, the spawn is here again. Noticed the egg late last night. The parents spawned on the exact same rock surface. Didn't do anything with them until just now. Transferred the eggs into a nursery tank using Stormhawk's suggestions. Some moss and an air-stone is placed near to the rock of eggs. Luckily, this time the parents didn't attack me as I've a net to block them at a corner. I didn't have methylene blue so I dosed a few drops of hydrogen peroxide. Let's see how the eggs develop from here.

[iwishweallcouldwin]

do update us about the results of your new brooding method!

[exotic_idiot]

Yeah~~!!! Waiting for your good news too..

[stormhawk]

Good luck Rob.

My 2 dominant female Rams are already showing the extended egg depositor.. but I still have no real dominant males. I bought a few but they were beaten up by the 2 females. Time to visit C328 and buy a bigger sized dominant male Ram.

[Puffer]

It is Day 4 and I can see wrigglers all over the bare bottom floor. I think half the brood is fertilised as the rest turned white and fungused. Guess should have used methyl blue instead of hydrogen peroxide, or perhaps the air-stone is either not good enough or not strong enough?