problems with sjoestedti eggs

[erikthur]

I bought a couple of Fp sjoestedti in the local shop about 5 months ago.
I had to separate the male from the female, since he was to eager to mate.
I have fed them with live pond food, shrimp meat, occasional flies.
My water is relatively soft but the pH is 7.5-8.0.
They are allowed to spawn once a week.
In the beginning there were relatively few eggs of which 2 of about 20-30 hatched into good fry that unfortunately died at the size of 2-3 cm.
A couple of weeks ago the egg production increased but practically all of the eggs seem go bad within one week.
Anybody have any idea of how to address my problem?
Is the high pH my problem?

[whuntley]

I have a couple of thoughts, but haven't raised SJO and it has been some years since I kept their cousins, OCC.

On that basis, remember that free advice is worth every penny.

Your pH indicates (if your water is soft) that you are not using boiled and rinsed peat as a spawning medium. Try it. The fish don't care a bit what the pH is (unless you let ammonium accumulate), but the antibacterial properties of peat are great for getting marginal eggs to survive.

Your problem often happens with very young pairs of the Callopanchax sub-genus (and SJO are similar to them). Fertility often improves as they mature.

Treat the eggs as annuals, and let them gestate in damp peat, rather than in water. That might improve chances, too.

Last, but not least, many Fundulopanchax do not really do their best in soft water. If you don't want to increase pH, you can add some Seachem "Equilibrium" o/e to get the essential blood electrolytes up and still not change KH much. I would say the general hardness should be above 4 or 5 degrees, at least. "Equilibrium" also raises the potassium to sufficient levels that you can safely add a bit of salt (3tsp/20L) to kill any Velvet organisms. [They are the most likely killers of your young fish.]

The sudden increase in eggs is a possible clue that you may be keeping them too cool. They are a coastal species, and need at least 23-26C before they are happy. The increase might just be from the summer heat or it might be because they are becoming mature.

HTH

Wright

[TyroneGenade]

Has anyone on the list actually had good success breeding SJO? Back home in SA we have an uphill battle getting eggs. We have 1.5 yr old fish that are yet to lay a single good egg!

If you are having success please share with us your secret and what strain you have. It may well be that some strains are just... well finished. Past there shelf life, inbred to death.

Any comments?

[RonWill]

Erik,
This was the line of SJO I lost to dropsy, but I'll relate what I can recall


I started spawning the SJOs when they were about 4 months and what eggs I collected didn't make it past 3 days, turned opaque and became fuzz-balls. The pair could have been young and were returned to the main tank to mature further.

At 7 months, I attempted breeding again and still, non-viable eggs, regardless whether incubation was in peat, on peat, with damp moss or water incubated.

At 10 months old, the healthy robust pair measures about 7cm. I experimented with breeding water from pH5~pH7.5, with and without salt addition, and still, alot of eggs were lost to fungus. I decided to soak freshly collected eggs in strong methylene blue for a week. Those that weren't viable became very obvious but finally, I managed to get some good eggs.

Subsequent water changes reduced the blue stain on the eggs until these were finally clear again. Peat incubation don't work well with me but in water, the incubation period was between 1 ~ 1½ months, at ambient 28~31º Celsius.

There weren't many fry but they are large enough to take BBS upon free-swimming and ate like pigs. Casualty was low once they past the 1cm mark in pH7 water.

Strangely, while the fry are growing-out, the breeding pair stopped producing eggs. Why, I don't know.

At 11 months, the original pair reached 8cm and the younger SJOs were almost 5cm, all of them happily residing in a 24"L xi 18"WY x 18"H tank. In all, there were about a dozen SJOs. The smallest, a female, was probably around 4cm.

Did a routine water change and noted strange stressed behavior, with erratic darting for no apparent reason. Fearing the worst, I passed a young 6cm pair to another forum member.

That pair is still alive although I learnt recently that the male isn't eating well. Gan, could you post some feedback here.

SJOs and GARs were amongst my first killies and if I could, I'd do SJO all over again but not until I figure out what stressed them beyond recuperation.

Good luck with your SJOs.

[stormhawk]

Ron, I may have a reason why your SJO stopped spawning after their offspring grew bigger.

My theory is that since the young offspring were growing up in the same tank and some of them were starting to show their sexuality then it is possible that hormones released by the younger fish may have stopped the reproductive tendencies of the adult pair.

[TyroneGenade]

I don't think so... If anything it should of been the adults who stopped the young from spawning.

Maybe they just felt crowded? Too many fish, warm temp, low O2 = less activity...?

[RonWill]

Jian Yang,
I doubt if your theory will hold any water, but no, the tank's large enough for them to co-exist peacefully. No bullys and no sore losers either, when dense vals offer ample refuge.

Will have to go with Tyrone's speculation of warm weather. When the heat wave strikes, I don't get viable eggs from any killies [guppies couldn't care less tho]

Tyrone, it cant be low O2 as I'm using a hang on Eheim filter and since my CO2 cylinder gassed out, that can be it either. The companion BITs weren't bothered and none of the fishes were gasping at the surface. Have to be something else.

BTW, spawning the SJO pair is not in the main tank... that's a place for them to 'rest'.

[stormhawk]

Ron, co-existing is of course a certainty but I was talking more on hormones being released from the young fish to inhibit the spawning tendencies of the adult pair.

Nonetheless I realised that perhaps its temperature like Wright has mentioned earlier.

[turaco]

Ron, the male's still around but is on the thin side. no sign of injury or disease strike. Just not eating much. On the other hand, the female has outgrow him by much. Had already seperated them for a week . Should I deworm the male or will deworming send him straight to fishy heaven ? Do get eggs from the female previously but all fungused. For sure the skinny male didn't do his job. Any suggestion to save the SJO male?

[TyroneGenade]

Try metanozidole treatment. It may be a flagelate infection. Were it worms I'm sure he would eat like a pig.

tt4n