Lokoja Gardneri: An Update

[joteo]

Hi,

I got a pair of these from Ronnie and I picked up 11 or so eggs and 9 have survived. These are over 3 batches of pickings.

The father then jumped and I had to get another Male. The pickings have been non-existent since, unfortunately.

Anyway, the three batches have all now grown up... I guess they must be about 4 months or so now.

I've updated my gallery so you can see them in eggs, then fry then suddenly they're all coloured up - that is, if you'd like to see some pictures.

Yes, I got lazy in the middle documenting their development.

I find it hard to believe that this small things have grown so fast.

The males are very timid. The females come forward more. And yet, I have more in focus shots of the males!

http://photobucket.com/albums/y107/j...%20batch%201/?

Is it okay to put in a mop if it's too early? From what I read, it should be okay to put in a mop even though there are many Lokoja in there, correct? Or is it better to pick a pair to specifically breed in a separate tank?

I'm sorry if these questions have been asked many times, but the search function seems not to be working today.

Thanks
joanne

[RonWill]

Is it okay to put in a mop if it's too early? From what I read, it should be okay to put in a mop even though there are many Lokoja in there, correct? Or is it better to pick a pair to specifically breed in a separate tank?

Joanne, you've done well and deserves a pat on the back.

GARs' early eggs are usually infertile but have them accustomed to having the mop around. Sooner or later, they'll figure out what it's for

A pair is as good, if not better than a trio, since the extra female may have a tendency to eat freshly laid eggs. [might or might not happen, but why take the risk?]

Side note:
Apologies for not being able to meet up with you. School just re-opened for the kids and I wasn't able to ride [lousy excuse, but I won't be enjoying myself with the nagging shoulder pain]

[selena]

Congrats Joanne,

I had a few from Ronnie and do manage to raise some fry. Although the fry tray was covered with only a small slit for ventilation, I kept losing fry for no apparent reasons; no carcasses at all. Must be some fat gecko lurking around.

The only two I was able to raise to adulthood decided last week to leap out of the planted tank to join in the line of krispies. No matter how I covered my tank, australes and lokoja will, without fail, find a way out. Maybe they have flyingfish genes in their blood. My good friend, Lily said that as they are mostly kept in darkness, any bright spot would ideally be the best spot to leap . Think so?

Could you give me a tip or two? How often do you collect the eggs, everyday or weekly? How do you incubate them, in the mop, moist peat or just water? Did you ever have to force-hatch them?

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Selena

[joteo]

Is it okay to put in a mop if it's too early? From what I read, it should be okay to put in a mop even though there are many Lokoja in there, correct? Or is it better to pick a pair to specifically breed in a separate tank?

Joanne, you've done well and deserves a pat on the back.

GARs' early eggs are usually infertile but have them accustomed to having the mop around. Sooner or later, they'll figure out what it's for

A pair is as good, if not better than a trio, since the extra female may have a tendency to eat freshly laid eggs. [might or might not happen, but why take the risk?]

Okay, since the likelihood of infertile eggs is quite high, I just put in the mops in the tank. After a few weeks, I'll fish out a couple and hopefully they'll have learnt a thing or two. Hopefully the group training takes off.

Side note:
Apologies for not being able to meet up with you. School just re-opened for the kids and I wasn't able to ride [lousy excuse, but I won't be enjoying myself with the nagging shoulder pain]

Oh that's just my fault for not studying the calendar properly.

[joteo]

Congrats Joanne,

I had a few from Ronnie and do manage to raise some fry. Although the fry tray was covered with only a small slit for ventilation, I kept losing fry for no apparent reasons; no carcasses at all. Must be some fat gecko lurking around.

Living near the reservoir I have a lot of lizards running around. They didn't touch my fry at all.

The only two I was able to raise to adulthood decided last week to leap out of the planted tank to join in the line of krispies. No matter how I covered my tank, australes and lokoja will, without fail, find a way out. Maybe they have flyingfish genes in their blood. My good friend, Lily said that as they are mostly kept in darkness, any bright spot would ideally be the best spot to leap . Think so?

Interestingly, I didn't put a cover on the tank till a week ago. I found that as the fish grew older, they got more sensitive to my movements and tend to leap about. When they are younger, they don't jump at all.

The more they jump, the more I throw plants inside. The tank is now very crowded with plants.

Only one female leapt out high enough to land on the floor. Luckily I was there when it happened and picked it up and threw it back in.

Could you give me a tip or two? How often do you collect the eggs, everyday or weekly? How do you incubate them, in the mop, moist peat or just water? Did you ever have to force-hatch them?

I find it hilarious you are asking me for tips. Me! Hahhahaha.

The first time, I checked for eggs, the eggs had already eyed up. These 7 all survived. I put them in tap water. When it was time to hatch, most did. Two or three didn't. I followed the force hatching instructions at this website and it worked.

I checked a week later and there were eggs that hadn't eyed up. Of the 7 I picked only 3 didn't fungus up. I put these in wet peat. When I wet them, the eggs didn't hatch easily. I could see the fish moving inside the eggs, but nothing was hatching. I gave it a few hours. Then I noticed one died when it hatched halfway. The tail was sticking out of the egg.

So I tried force hatching.

It didn't work.

I got tired and shook the container really hard. So hard it would've broken a chicken egg and smashed the shell to smithereens. After shaking, I had broken the eggs and the fry emerged. I thought they might die of brain damage.

But guess what? These two are exactly the same size (maybe bigger) than the first batch. I guess because they don't have to fight over food.

I checked another week later and there were 3 eggs. All fungused up.

Then the father decided he'd had enough and disappeared. Body not found. Presumed dead.

The female has a new male now. I checked a week ago. There were only fungused eggs in the mop. Nothing since then.

So am hoping kids will be more prolific.

joanne

[selena]

I find it hilarious you are asking me for tips. Me! Hahhahaha

I have to be honest with you, they do not get enough attention from me . Apart from the daily food(2X), siphoning of waste and 20% change of water, I admit, I neglected them a lot.

Other species have frequently been subject to body examination under the magnifier except the Lokoja.

Anyway I have a new strategy under my fin to increase the fry population. Will update you should I succeed.

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Selena

[timebomb]

I have to be honest with you, they do not get enough attention from me . Apart from the daily food(2X), siphoning of waste and 20% change of water, I admit, I neglected them a lot.

That must be the understatement of the year 2 feedings a day, daily siphoning of waste and water change and yet you say you neglect them

I don't know what to call what I'm doing with my fish as I feed them only once a day (sometimes none when I'm too busy), change water once every few weeks and almost never siphon out waste Torture, perhaps?

By the way, Selena, when you have to force hatch the eggs, don't shake them so hard as Joanne did. You gals are supposed to be the gentler sex, for goodness' sake

Loh K L

[selena]

That must be the understatement of the year 2 feedings a day, daily siphoning of waste and water change and yet you say you neglect them

I usually buy 30 cents of worms to last for 2-3 days. With my meticulous washing I'm left with about 20 cents worth of worms and if not for twice a feed I probably have to throw away the leftover.

KL, do you recall the last time you were at my place and the remarks you dished out " Your australes are obese and there is just too many in a two feet tank!" The remark etched into my mind . Twice a day is usually when I am busy, normally they will have midnight or even late midnight snacks.

Keeping 70-80 happy australes in a 2 ft tank is OK, right ? So long as I keep-up with more water change. Didn't you notice my australis are alway smiling .

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selena

[timebomb]

Keeping 70-80 happy australes in a 2 ft tank is OK, right ? So long as I keep-up with more water change. Didn't you notice my australis are alway smiling .

Selena, I can't remember what's the rule of thumb for fish loads but keeping more than 70 adult australes in a 2 feet tank is definitely overcrowding them. I do remember my remark about obese australes though.

I don't believe fishes smile but if you think they are like humans, take note that under stress, humans tend to eat more than necessary

Loh K L

[joteo]

If you are to choose your breeding pair, what factors do you consider for this fish?

More red dots? More blue? More yellow?

Would this be a good example of a good quality fish? http://www.alfanita.com/fiskar/fp_gar_nig_lokoja.htm

Selena: That's a lot of care. I only change water once a week too. I'm reducing all my fish stock in anticipation of my long trips away.

Thanks
joanne

[RonWill]

Would this be a good example of a good quality fish? http://www.alfanita.com/fiskar/fp_gar_nig_lokoja.htm

Joanne,
IMHO, Alf's specimens are of excellent quality and I often reference my fishes with his site. If what you raise can match what you see there, you're on the right track.

[joteo]

Looks like I have a long way to go...

[selena]

Hi KL,

By the way, Selena, when you have to force hatch the eggs, don't shake them so hard as Joanne did. You gals are supposed to be the gentler sex, for goodness' sake

I have a weak shoulder I can't shake even If I want to.


My current 10+ Lokoja fry goes through all types of force hatching I could come up with.

The first two went to school with my son in a tube filled with water and a puff of smoke. After a round or two football session, they usually hatched.

The next few batches were thrown into tank with vigorous aeration (of cause in a tube ). The bopping of water probably helps to expedite in hatching.

A couple of eggs hatched with the aid of my kitten rolling the tubes around the house. Good workout for both the fry and the kitten. No, the kitten is not a newly acquired culling machine.

I think most of these force hatching were not neccesary if only I practice a bit more patient and wait a couple of days more Agreed?

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selena

[nonamethefish]

Great series of photos! I should be getting my little hands on Fp. gardneri nigeranius 'Misaje' eggs soon so found this very interesting.

Hate to Hijack a thread but...

Am I correct that the photo series spans 4 months? What was your method of raising them?

If things go correctly I'd like to do some experimental raising in a pond outside.

[joteo]

Hi Joseph,

Yes the photos are about 4 months in total.

I fed the fry baby brine shrimp from day 1.

After a few weeks, I started adding powdered flakes.

Then one tubifex worm was added to observe if the fry could eat. If it was taken up in a few hours, I know that they are big enough to manage tubifex and can be given more. (It's quite hard to pick out one worm, I have to say!)

Then I started reducing baby brine shrimp so that those fry that hadn't learnt to eat powdered flakes would be forced to eat them.

Followed by a period of just powdered flakes with baby brine shrimp and tubifex as a treat, rather than standard fare.

Today, these chaps eat anything. Flakes, tiny granules, tubifex, baby brine shrimp. They eat all with equal vigour and interest.

I see you live in the US. If you keep the killies in the pond, what happens during winter?

joanne

[nonamethefish]

Thanks for the information! It will be interesting to see how they do outdoors.

Hear in CA its only warm enough for tropicals from late spring to fall...so I will be bringing te fish in when it starts to get too cold.