Introduction and an important Question

[KillieOrCory]

Hi all,

Firstly a short intro;

My name is Serkan Alasya and I live in Canberra, Australia. I've been keeping killifish for about 15 years and keeping fish for 20. I've been a member of AKA and BKA for a number of years but my current memberships expired due to finances (or lack there of ). When it existed I've served as State Representative and one term as President of NAKA (National Australian Killifish Association). Currently maintain approx. 50 tanks. My main interest is in non-annuals. Nice to meet you all. I'll be reading the older posts of the forum for the next week or two.

Now my question (beware it is long winded to put it in context);

Everybody is aware the tight restrictions we have here in Australia and limited number of species available to us here for dedicated hobbiest. And this relative isolation makes it difficult for one to feel part of the greater International Killifish community and even the most enthusiastic among us can feel frustrated when desparately wanting to contribute to species maintenance efforts, and on a selfish level, not being able to source your dream fish.

Although limited number of killifish species makes it's way into the country every year. Though these; although extremely valuable, always pot luck (as in whatever the wholesale importer brings in to fill an order) and almost always without any location information, which is frustrating from an advanced hobbiest point of view. On the glass half full point of view in the last 12 months we had wild caught Epiplatys bifasciatus, hildegarde and dageti imported into the country. Though on the glass half empty side of things (as far as I know) we no longer have bifasciatus because by the time killifish hobbiest were aware of their presence in the country they were already sold out!

Although we have some restrictions here, Aphyosemion species (including Fundulopanchax, Roloffia, Chromaphyosemion etc.) and Epiplatys species are on allowable import list. See http://www.affa.gov.au/corporate_doc.../Freshfish.pdf

There are two Betta importers that I am aware of that imports fish from SouthEast Asia and Singapore on regular basis. Before I approach these specialist importers, I wanted to touch base with the Singaporean killifish hobbiests.

In the future would anybody be willing to offer a number of pairs of a certain species we seek in Australia to be LEGALY imported into Australia? Does this sound like a feasable proposition?

My aim is to rekindle killifish hobby in Australia, participate in species maintenance efforts and most importantly start to form a link between Australian and Singaporean hobbiests!

It should be possible to send fish back through the same channels as I know some Australian bred bettas made their way into Singapore recently. Also sending eggs from this end back should not be a problem.

How does this sound? Also do let me know if you think I am dreaming


Cheers,

Serkan

[timebomb]

Hi, Serkan,

Welcome to the forum. Your proposal is a great idea. It would be marvellous if we can establish a link between the hobbyists living in Singapore and Australia.

We'll be delighted to help but we have our fair share of problems. Although this forum is more than 2 years old, the Killifish scene in Singapore never quite took off. We have an active group of hobbyists but the number is small. We also have an extensive list of species but they are in the hands of a few. Last time I heard, Ronnie Lee and Au SL, 2 of our most active Killifish breeders are working on sending many species of Killies to the guys in New Zealand. I'm sure they would be delighted to do the same for you and your mates in Australia. But you have to give us some time because these 2 guys are hard-pressed at the present moment with work and family committments.

It's important that whatever fish or eggs we sent to you, they have to be legal. We don't want to run into trouble with your customs. An import/exporter friend told me a few years ago that if the Australian customs discover an illegal item in the mail, they would not only destroy it but would also ask the authorities of the country where the item was sent from to investigate the matter. We can get into serious trouble if this were to happen.

In the meantime, it would be great if you let us know what are the species that are already well-established in your country. Over here, we have difficulties with Killies that require low temperatures. Our climate is such it's hot the whole year round and indoor temperature hovers at about 30 degrees C on most days. Some of us use chillers or PC fans to keep our tanks cool but so far, no one has reported success with species like the Aphyosemion striatum. We have difficulties keeping this fish alive, much less breed it.

Loh K L

[KillieOrCory]

Hi Loh,

Thank you for the warm welcome.

It is great that you think establishing links between the two countries is a good idea, I agree with you in that I rather take it slowly and establish a solid link than rush these things.

Yes I am talking about having everything above the board and legal in every way. Aphyosemion, Epiplatys and Aplocheilus species are all on the allowable import list here. Unfortunately though, I am pretty sure no matter what species, receiving eggs is not allowed since they can not establish the species identity.

The two importers I had in mind import small scale but high quality fish, focusing primarily top end Betta splendens and other wild Betta spp.. I am planning to approach them to see if they would look at occasionally importing killifish along with their other fish. They both have quarantine facilities and will be able to hold the fish until they clear. All I need to organise from this end is to put up their shipping, handling and quarantine costs and we should be able to get good quality Aphyosemions and/or Epiplatys legally into the country.

Aim of my post was to see if there is any interest in collaboration from your end before I approached these importers.

I envision importing minimum 5 pairs or 20-30 juveniles per species/locality to ensure we have numbers to establish a population in Australia. A killifish that might be as common as guppies over there might be the most sought after fish here.

It is quite interesting that you write that striatum is a challenge for you. I've been maintaining my striatums for almost 9 years! Collecting eggs to send to Singapore should not be a problem, if you guys ever wanted to give them another go. You never know our land locked striatum might prove to be OK over there!

Off the top of my head we have healthy populations of:

Aplocheilus lineatus Gold
Aplocheilus panchax
Aplocheilus dayi
Aplocheilus parvis (blockii?)

Pseudoepiplatys annulatus

Aphyosemion striatum
Aphyosemion australe Gold or Orange
Aphyosemion australe Chocolate
Aphyosemion amieti
Aphyosemion bitaeniatum
Aphyosemion bitaeniatum Lagos
Aphyosemion scheeli
Aphyosemion sjoestedti
gardneri Akure
gardneri Jos Plateau
gardneri N'sukka

Epiplatys dageti monroviae
Epiplatys fasciolatus
Epiplatys hildegarde

And below exists here but the numbers I am not sure of

Aphyosemion filamentosum Southern Benin
Aphyosemion splendopleure
Aphyosemion walkeri Abidjan
Aphyosemion deltanense
gardneri Akampa
gardneri Golden
gardneri Lafia
Aphyosemion puerzli Ndokama

Epiplatys sexfasciatus
Epiplatys chaperi

as you can see we have very few species with actual location codes most of our species is what you'd call aquarium strain. Some of which have been maintained without new blood for decades.

Cheers,

Serkan

[stormhawk]

Hi Serkan,

Welcome to the forum. I'm a member of the OZ Killifish forum on ezboard and you have a pretty active, although small community of dedicated keepers.

Yes I know of importers within Australia (Bay Fish perhaps?) that do import fish from Singapore. Most of these fish are bred in farms, probably in Malaysia for export markets in Singapore and elsewhere. However on occasions they usually release only males, since the females seldom get any attention anyway, and sometimes totally mixed-up pairs of different species sold together.

Within Singapore itself, I've only known of very few importations of wild-caught fish, for example a shipment of Epiplatys togolensis which appeared in 2004 and is still available I think. Plus another shipment of Rivulus rectocaudatus and another un-identified Rivulus species from 2003, of which neither species is still surviving here.

The only other problem however is that we don't have substantial numbers of any single species, bar Aphyosemion australe and perhaps some annuals, of which most are of the Nothobranchius species. So breeding them in large numbers might not be possible at such short notice. Some of us might have excess fish every now and then but it really depends on the fishes themselves.

If you like to know what's still being kept within Singapore's shores, refer to the census thread for 2005 in the Notice Board section. I've done my best to keep the records in check but without full cooperation from all the local hobbyists, its a tough job.

[KillieOrCory]

Hi Jianyang,

Thank you for the welcome. I actually found this forum through one of your posts in the OZ Killifish forum, so double thank you

The two importers I was thinking about are:

http://www.aussiebettas.com
http://www.slipperylittlesuckers.com/

Both are great people as well. Because they import frequently (every month or two) and on smaller scale to Bayfish (though more specialised), I thought of them as we will be working with just a few pairs of a species. There is always the chance that when I ask them they will say "sorry" but I feel I wouldn't know until I asked.

In terms of numbers to distribute I stated 5-6 pairs or 20-30 juveniles is a good number to import, but even single pairs can potentially be imported, though of course with increased risk of failing in the attempt. And an added pressure on this end to make sure we propagate the species and there is no room for error. Like I mentioned in the post above I am not in a hurry either. If this idea worked it would literally start a new Killifish keeping era in Australia (or that's what I would like ) I plan to distribute new species and localities we might get as widely as possible, I have people in mind from Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Queensland, Karatha WA, and hope to get somemore people out of the woodwork as well as Canberra off course.

Also I am in the process of joining SKG (Sydney Killie Group) which is the longest running Killie group in Australia. In the past we have even driven from Canberra to attend their meeting over there; which is approx. 7 hr round trip! Again like most killie people they are a dedicated and friendly bunch. Also I am trying to hatch plans to form CKSG (Canberra Killie Study Group) where we will be trying to increase the profile of Killifish within Canberra. I was at the CDAS (Canberra and District Aquarium Society) meeting last night and my friend John suggested that we should form CKSG. Between John and myself I think we keep 90% of the killifish in Canberra and we want to change this.

I think you guys are doing great over there with limited active keepers.

Cheers,

Serkan

[keehoe]

Hi Serkan, welcome to our little conner. While non-annual take months for them to grow into breedable size. Wouldn't you be interested in Annual?

[timebomb]

Between John and myself I think we keep 90% of the killifish in Canberra and we want to change this.

Hey, Serkan, it looks like the situation here is not much different from where you are. Ronnie Lee and Au SL probably has more Killifish than everyone else here combined. They haven't joined in the discussion yet but I'm sure they will eventually.

It's a pity none of the Simpsonichthys or Nothobranchius species are on the allowable import list. These 2 genus are among the more popular Killies here. I myself maintain 2 of each, the Simp. fulminantis and magnificus and the Notho rachovii and guentheri. I would glady ship some pairs of each to you if they were allowed.

As for linking up with the hobbyists in Australia, it does not have to be an official thing. We are already quite well linked to the US of A through folks like William Ruyle and Wright Huntley. It's not unusual for us to send stuff to each other. Hang around and get to know the folks here. Over time, I'm sure we will become good friends. And friends help each other, don't they?

Loh K L

[comdur]

Hi Serkan
You are Welcome

[stormhawk]

It's a pity none of the Simpsonichthys or Nothobranchius species are on the allowable import list.

KL, I find that odd too because the rules for NZ does state that Nothos and Cynolebias (in general for SAAs) are allowed for import into that country. If NZ allows these annuals in via an import basis, then its odd that Australia does not do the same for these species. Most are not actually listed under CITES and so, do not come under the standard restrictions with regards to international trade.

Serkan, good luck with the study group project. I hope it takes off. About time the NAKA and its affiliate groups return back to full steam. About the NAKA website, do you have any idea who still maintains it? It looks like the previous one hosted on killi.net is already down and the main killi.net site run by Richard Sexton is also down too.

[KillieOrCory]

Things are bit different here in OZ. The problem here is that things move very slowly in terms of getting things on the allowable import list.

They only add 5 species or genus every 3-5 years or so. So you need to lobby (literally) to get fish on the list. Many with commercial interests or larger organised groups like cichlid keepers get their fish on the list to be evaluated before anybody else. As killifish keeping is such speacialised part of the hobby, I do not hold my breath to see other genera on the list in my lifetime.

Although from a distance, the allowable imports lists function is to reduce the risk of introducing noxious species into our waterways, but it works from opposite end in that, until proven innocent all is guilty!!! That is, major effort required to get a fish on there! I wish it was even possible to argue that NZ have it on their list so they must have evaluated it as no concern, then so should we! On the otherhand we still release thousands if not millions of a noxious feral introduced species into our waterways every year; oh it is called TROUT!!!

Off my soapbox now!!!

NAKA pretty much disappeared with it its online presence. It might resurrect or it might not, I do not know. At the moment I will focus on my own city. I got an hour to kill last night so put together:
http://www.akvaryumhobisi.com/CKSG

So bookmark the page to follow our development

I always aim high! I also would like to plant the seeds of a sister group in Turkey (hi Omer ) along the way. I am originally from Istanbul, Turkey - the land of Aphanius species.

Funny thing is if a species is in the country then it is legal to keep and breed it. In the past magnificus, nigripinnis, whitei, rachovii, rubripinnis, korthause, N. Sp.Lake Vic all past through my tanks. As I type whitei is available in Sydney.

It is same with all plecos!! They are all not allowed to be imported but fish farms over here are breed some (albeit limited species)!!!

Great to find you guys whether we can swap species or not. Just exchanging information is very valuable. Thank you again for making me feel welcome.

Cheers,

Serkan

[stormhawk]

Serkan, for awhile I did think you were a Turk by virtue of the name, and for the record, I love Turkish food.

The Aphanius are nice fishes, although a little aggressive though. We get tank-bred Aphanius mento on an irregular basis via the farms up north but unfortunately, very seldom are females released for sale.

I suppose trout are released for sport-fishing? But I think the saratogas and barramundi would make even better targets for sport fishermen.

Nice website you got up there for the CSKG and very pretty striatum!

[RonWill]

Apologies for my late participation but as always, a warm welcome, Serkan. Just because I didn't respond doesn't mean I'm away... I'm always around!

Understand perfectly how it feels, like John and yourself, to be in the same shoes but with patience (and the necessary papers), I believe we can help each other.

Will need to finish off what I started with the NZKA, so working with you will have to wait (unless someone else is willing to take the initiative).

Non-annuals are unlike annuals, ie. harvest on demand, and can be touchy with warm spells. Personally, I've not seen a fry or good egg in months! (ok ok... not all true because I just scooped out a dozen fry of Rivulus cylindraceus "Al Castro strain" and 2 miserable fry of Chromaphyosemion bitaeniatum "Ekondo Titi")

Meanwhile, please do the necessary leg work and find out what's needed for a legal shipment (Stu should do the same too).

May not respond promptly as I'm feeling very depressed now with restructuring at work, since it almost always will hurt someone close. Cutting back on my setups is just as painful, not being able to maintain as many species as I would have liked or simply go with my whims.

However, I do hope you'll spend some time going through our past posts and to 'mingle' with fellow forumers here. We're a friendly lot and we don't bite!

[Blessedsilence]

Well I have been following this thread and since I have a friend in Australia who is also interested in starting killies I asked her to see If I could send eggs. She checked with her work (she works for DPI&F or Department of Primary Industries and Fisheries) and she said that eggs of any kind were not permitted to be sent into Australia. She said she will be checking on the live fish to see what is not permitted. I will share any information I find out.