32 litre "Tree Scape" Tank!

[Urban Aquaria]

I like the theory of allowing the plants to replenish CO2 in the tank before it starts on another photosynthesis cycle.

I guess for a non-CO2 tank CO2 is the limiting factor and it is important to control it well by playing around with the light intensity and duration. I am just curious if we were to add a CO2 checker to the tank. Will it helps us to better determine when to turn on and turn off the lights based on the colour indication?

I noted that you are using a 4 hrs on, 4 hrs off and then 4 hrs on cycle. Will it differ from tank to tank as the plants mass are different?

Yes, you could try putting a Co2 drop checker in the tank too... but note that as there is no additional Co2 injection, the Co2 levels in the water will not be as high as the 30-40ppm in Co2 injected tanks (based on using 4dkh reference solutions), therefore you will need to use lower kH solution (ie. 2dKH, instead of 4dkh) so that the drop checker can show indicator color when it detects the lower Co2 levels.

The 4 hour shift schedule could be adjusted to your tank requirements. If you have plants which require longer lighting periods, then perhaps a slightly longer 4.5 hour or 5 hour shift could be used, though you'll have to really manage it very carefully or else algae will easily take over since Co2 is limited.

[Patrick76]

Can you elaborate on using a lower KH solution? What will be the range like?

[Urban Aquaria]

Can you elaborate on using a lower KH solution? What will be the range like?

Okay, if you refer to common Co2 charts like this:




You'll see that with 4dkh reference solution and pH indicator, the drop checker will only turn to green color when there is 30ppm of Co2 in the water (6.6pH @ 4dkh).

But if there is no Co2 injection, the Co2 levels will never get that high... at most just 5-6ppm in normal tank water with low aeration, so it'll forever be blue.

To track lower Co2 levels, you would need to use 2kdh or even 1kdh reference solutions (just dilute the 4dkh solution with distilled water to further reduce the kH), then "in theory" the indicator color should change according to the lower ppm levels in the chart.

But in my opinion, the Co2 changes in non-Co2 injection tanks are so small that you'll probably not be able to see color changes so easily... and drop checkers are not exactly accurate devices, there is a time delay in the color change, so most people just use it as a rough estimate for Co2 levels.

[Urban Aquaria]

Btw, you can read this thread by Diana Walstad about the Siesta Regimen for lighting schedules, it explains how the method works:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...iesta-co2.html

The thread has a chart which shows how the natural Co2 in the water is used up during the 1st light on shift, replenished during the mid-say light off shift, then used again in the 2nd light on shift.

[Patrick76]

Thanks for the link!!!

[Urban Aquaria]

Managed to put together some video footage of the tank and its inhabitants at Week 7...



Enable HD quality for better viewing.

[bennyc]

very clean. This is something i am not able to achieve. Haha.

Your HC is very thick, so jealous! My HC looks like it is in "desert" phrase.

I assume you are not breeding the shrimps?

[Urban Aquaria]

very clean. This is something i am not able to achieve. Haha.

Your HC is very thick, so jealous! My HC looks like it is in "desert" phrase.

I assume you are not breeding the shrimps?

Yeah, i'm not relying on this particular tank to breed shrimps... i usually take the berried females and shrimplets out (if i can spot and catch them) and put them in another shrimp-only tank which is full of mosses and algae, ideal conditions for breeding and growing shrimps.

Once they grow large enough, then i transfer them back to the community tank.

[Shadow]

Nice video. You HC look like start to float . Does it growing upward? You need to anchor it down somehow, otherwise my guess it will fully float in about 1 months

[Urban Aquaria]

Nice video. You HC look like start to float . Does it growing upward? You need to anchor it down somehow, otherwise my guess it will fully float in about 1 months

Thanks!

Most of the HC that you see with exposed roots are usually the ones at the back of the slope, the shrimps like to shift the soil and crawl under the HC so the slope end up leveling abit... no issues with floating HC though, the roots in the HC are now entwined together and established 4-5 cm deep into the soil so they stay firmly rooted.

If i were to pull out a bunch (which i tested when clearing hair algae during the initial cycling period), an entire section with a huge layer of soil will come up with it, almost like a removing floor carpet for renovation.

At this moment, the HC are growing to around 2-3cm tall and then spreading small plantlets horizontally, its slow though, so i haven't had to trim them so far.

[inrewind]

lovely tank, very much inspired by it.

[bennyc]

Urban bro, Just trying to find out more information from you.
The Light period is only 4 hrs on- 4hrs off- 4 hrs on (one cycle) or the cycle keep happening/repeating (meaning run two cycle the same regime per day )?

[AQMS]

Bennyc it a total of 8hrs of lights. In between there is a 4hrs break.
So in a day, total hrs of lights is 8hrs.
check out page 1 first post for more details.

[Urban Aquaria]

Urban bro, Just trying to find out more information from you.
The Light period is only 4 hrs on- 4hrs off- 4 hrs on (one cycle) or the cycle keep happening/repeating (meaning run two cycle the same regime per day )?

I'm only running one cycle per 24hrs... my lighting schedule goes like this:

9am-1pm = Lights On
1pm-5pm = Lights Off
5pm-9pm = Lights On

The rest of the night from 9pm-9am the lights are off.

[bennyc]

Thanks, i have switch to using lily pipes too. And i have notice the fishes seems to be grasping for air during long period of light off. I thought you are running two cycles to ensure good gas exchange in the water column. I initial plan to use your "method" to generate oxygen. Of course the simple solution could be to add a airstone. But there are already quite a number of things added into the tank and i was hoping to have one less....

Do you face this problem?

[Urban Aquaria]

Thanks, i have switch to using lily pipes too. And i have notice the fishes seems to be grasping for air during long period of light off. I thought you are running two cycles to ensure good gas exchange in the water column. I initial plan to use your "method" to generate oxygen. Of course the simple solution could be to add a airstone. But there are already quite a number of things added into the tank and i was hoping to have one less....

Do you face this problem?

Are you using additional Co2 injection in your tank? If so, then that could be causing Co2 levels to hit too high during darkness periods... you should be switching off the Co2 injection whenever the lights are off, and perhaps increase aeration by moving the lily pipe slightly above the water line to churn the water surface.

My tank doesn't have any additional Co2 injection, so the Co2 levels are always naturally in balance and very low, even the Co2 that the plants produce during darkness periods is so low that it doesn't affect the fauna... i've never encountered any of my fishes gasping for air before.

In this tank, i'm actually trying to reduce aeration to keep the limited natural Co2 from escaping.

The "Siesta Regimen" for lighting is a practice mainly for non-Co2 injected tanks, for Co2 injected tanks there is no need to split light shifts. Since Co2 is already constantly injected in high quantities, the lights can be on for a full stretch during the day.

[bennyc]

I am using CO2 injection but it is on & off 30mins before lights on & off. I have try moving the lily pipes up to the water surface after the "photo period" and shifting the lily pipe down just before the CO2 kicks in to prevent loss. But this is not a long term solution and not possible when i am not around.

The "Siesta Regimen" for lighting is a practice mainly for non-Co2 injected tanks, for Co2 injected tanks there is no need to split light shifts. Since Co2 is already constantly injected in high quantities, the lights can be on for a full stretch during the day.

"I initial plan to use your "method" to generate oxygen." I think i did not convey myself properly. Haha. I was hoping to use the method to "aerate" the water when the CO2 level becomes too high due to plants fighting to take in oxygen and releasing co2.

Seeing you have no problems during "lights off" period, means i have to seek for other reason to the problem. ( I have initially thought the plants have take in most of the oxygen during light offs. Or this is the problem faced using lily pipes as the is little water surface movement to aerate the water)

Thanks for sharing!

[Shadow]

siesta will not generate oxygen, once light off, photosynthesis stop and no oxygen will be generate.

The amount of oxygen plant take during photosynthesis is negligible compare to oxygen they produce. Plant no need fight for oxygen, there are plenty.

[Regis]

Can use Seachem Excel as a temporary CO2 supply?

[Urban Aquaria]

I am using CO2 injection but it is on & off 30mins before lights on & off. I have try moving the lily pipes up to the water surface after the "photo period" and shifting the lily pipe down just before the CO2 kicks in to prevent loss. But this is not a long term solution and not possible when i am not around.

"I initial plan to use your "method" to generate oxygen." I think i did not convey myself properly. Haha. I was hoping to use the method to "aerate" the water when the CO2 level becomes too high due to plants fighting to take in oxygen and releasing co2.

Seeing you have no problems during "lights off" period, means i have to seek for other reason to the problem. ( I have initially thought the plants have take in most of the oxygen during light offs. Or this is the problem faced using lily pipes as the is little water surface movement to aerate the water)

Thanks for sharing!

Yeah, adjusting the height of the lily pipes everyday is quite a hassle... need to find a better solution.

Perhaps you can try reducing your Co2 injection amount? Or switching off the Co2 injection earlier, say 1 hour earlier?

I guess its possible that even when you switch off the Co2 injection, the remaining Co2 levels in the water are still too high and when the plants switch to O2-Co2 respiration in darkness, the combined concentration could be too much for the fishes so they start gasping for air.

Its abit odd though, this mostly occurs in tanks with Co2 injection that are constantly on for 24 hours... usually for scheduled Co2 injection, there is enough time for the remaining Co2 levels to lower on its own accordingly.