HC dying? What is wrong/missing?

[ken90ken]

I recently added emersed HC to my 2 x 1 x 1.5 tank (20g).

Initially i tried to do DSM for 1 week, but failed miserably as some of the HC was turning dark green and i could see something like a spider web between those dark green pieces.

So i tried flooding the tank. It has been 3 days since the flood, the situation has still not improved. There are still clumps of HC turning dark green here and there.

I have 3 x 24w T5HO lights, giving more than enough light about 11 hours daily. I dose about 1.5x the recommended dosage of Seachem Excel, and a standard dose of Seachem Flourish. Soil is unused ADA Amazonia New.

Is there some sort of deficiency? Am i doing something wrong here?

-Please do let me know if you require other info. Thanks all.

[felix_fx2]

What is the ambient temp? Of the location where you put the tank.
When you did DSM, Did you cover with cling warp?
Suspect too moist

When you flood, besides Excel was there any Co2.
Was there any cooling, and of course the temp.

personally i doubt flooding can save your HC if it has not rooted enough and spreading, might be killing/stunting the growth instead.
Since you already flooded, keep the current regime for a week or so. Take photos of a specific spot that is directly under the lights & compare after a week.

[Shadow]

No CO2? grow very slow with excel alone

[ken90ken]

What is the ambient temp? Of the location where you put the tank.
When you did DSM, Did you cover with cling warp?
Suspect too moist

When you flood, besides Excel was there any Co2.
Was there any cooling, and of course the temp.

personally i doubt flooding can save your HC if it has not rooted enough and spreading, might be killing/stunting the growth instead.
Since you already flooded, keep the current regime for a week or so. Take photos of a specific spot that is directly under the lights & compare after a week.

Thanks for the advice, the location of the tank is in my bedroom, temp fluctuates from 25 (air-con + night) to 27 (daytime + fan).

When i did the DSM i covered with wrap for the first 2 days, then i started noticing the problem and removed the cling wrap but still no improvement.

I trying not to have any pressurized CO2 as it's in my bedroom after all. Might start with diy CO2 soon the chemical way (acid+carbonate), will start taking pics to moniter the progress!

No CO2? grow very slow with excel alone

Yeah as stated above, might start diy CO2 soon, don't like a CO2 tank in my bedroom, do you think this is a CO2 deficiency? Or is the CO2 only to help the plant grow faster and acclimatize to submerged state quicker?

[ken90ken]

Just took pictures of 2 spots with the most dark green 'dead' clusters. Will post here to monitor the progress of these 2 regions!
DSC_0666.jpgDSC_0667.jpg

[Urban Aquaria]

I recently added emersed HC to my 2 x 1 x 1.5 tank (20g).

Initially i tried to do DSM for 1 week, but failed miserably as some of the HC was turning dark green and i could see something like a spider web between those dark green pieces.

So i tried flooding the tank. It has been 3 days since the flood, the situation has still not improved. There are still clumps of HC turning dark green here and there.

I have 3 x 24w T5HO lights, giving more than enough light about 11 hours daily. I dose about 1.5x the recommended dosage of Seachem Excel, and a standard dose of Seachem Flourish. Soil is unused ADA Amazonia New.

Is there some sort of deficiency? Am i doing something wrong here?

-Please do let me know if you require other info. Thanks all.

I agree with the points the others have raised too.

I'm guessing during the DSM period for your HC, you probably over-saturated the substrate until the soil is constantly soaked, which tends to encourage mold to grow, hence you already start seeing mold appearing in the first week of DSM.

Next time if you do DSM again, its better to make sure the soil is just slightly moist (even abit dry also okay), but not soaked, what you want is the layer under the soil to have moisture, not above it.

The DSM process (based on our local climate conditions) should look something like this:

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ethod-Journal!

Anyways, since you have flooded it before the HC is established, you'll now need to provide the HC with as much light, Co2 and nutrients that it needs to transition from emersed to submerged.

What you are currently experiencing with the plants deteriorating is most likely due to the transition phase (its only been 3 days as you mentioned), and because there is probably still very little plant mass and no established roots yet, the HC will naturally be facing a uphill task to recover during the transition.

I posted some of my observations of the transition process if you are keen to have a look:

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...896#post715896

You can still grow HC in your current flooded condition though (its pretty much the same as what most aquascapers do when they plant HC directly into a filled tank), to help the HC though this process, you'll need enough light (which you seem to have), enough Co2 (excel can help but Co2 injection will be better) and dosing the right amounts of both macro and micro nutrients, so that the HC can survive through the transition and start to recover and grow.

Note that having strong lights on for long periods during the initial period when the tank is still cycling and all the parameters are still fluctuating is an invitation for algae to flourish, so try to balance the light/Co2/nutrients conditions accordingly.

[felix_fx2]

I agree with the points the others have raised too.

I'm guessing during the DSM period for your HC, you probably over-saturated the substrate until the soil is constantly soaked, which tends to encourage mold to grow, hence you already start seeing mold appearing in the first week of DSM.

Next time if you do DSM again, its better to make sure the soil is just slightly moist (even abit dry also okay), but not soaked, what you want is the layer under the soil to have moisture, not above it.

Bingo, "moist and not soaking wet for DSM" just like growing young plants.

You light is enough, but Co2 might not be enough.
Excel is a carbon supplement & not a Co2 replacement. (this words from shadow until now i remember)

For now have patience while you research on DIY Co2.

[ken90ken]

I agree with the points the others have raised too.

I'm guessing during the DSM period for your HC, you probably over-saturated the substrate until the soil is constantly soaked, which tends to encourage mold to grow, hence you already start seeing mold appearing in the first week of DSM.

Next time if you do DSM again, its better to make sure the soil is just slightly moist (even abit dry also okay), but not soaked, what you want is the layer under the soil to have moisture, not above it.

The DSM process (based on our local climate conditions) should look something like this:

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ethod-Journal!

Anyways, since you have flooded it before the HC is established, you'll now need to provide the HC with as much light, Co2 and nutrients that it needs to transition from emersed to submerged.

What you are currently experiencing with the plants deteriorating is most likely due to the transition phase (its only been 3 days as you mentioned), and because there is probably still very little plant mass and no established roots yet, the HC will naturally be facing a uphill task to recover during the transition.

I posted some of my observations of the transition process if you are keen to have a look:

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...896#post715896

You can still grow HC in your current flooded condition though (its pretty much the same as what most aquascapers do when they plant HC directly into a filled tank), to help the HC though this process, you'll need enough light (which you seem to have), enough Co2 (excel can help but Co2 injection will be better) and dosing the right amounts of both macro and micro nutrients, so that the HC can survive through the transition and start to recover and grow.

Note that having strong lights on for long periods during the initial period when the tank is still cycling and all the parameters are still fluctuating is an invitation for algae to flourish, so try to balance the light/Co2/nutrients conditions accordingly.

thanks for the advice! During DSM i tried to make it look as best as i could like the ones yours did, the soil was not flooded in any spots, and just moist.

What i didn't know that it's okay for the soil surface to be dry.. Thanks for pointing it out! Will try to work on getting the CO2 up soon.

Just curious, what are the max temperatures you guys have grown HC submerged in?

[ken90ken]

Bingo, "moist and not soaking wet for DSM" just like growing young plants.

You light is enough, but Co2 might not be enough.
Excel is a carbon supplement & not a Co2 replacement. (this words from shadow until now i remember)

For now have patience while you research on DIY Co2.

Thanks for the advice, appreciate it. I have another nano tank with HC growing in my office. Surprisingly it's growing well there. Could be the humidity is lower because of air-con?

Is it possible to just dose excel or no excel & CO2 for that nano tank?

[Shadow]

Mine 28-30c, might even hotter during hot day.

[ken90ken]

Mine 28-30c, might even hotter during hot day.

Thanks Robert, because yesterday i forgot to turn on my fan and the temp rose to 30c, was afraid then!

Guys, i'll update this thread with photos in a few days for comparison. Thanks for the quick help!

[peiho]

I tried growing HC too, failed. I also don't know why! I guess lighting not adequate. Used ADA soil and ferts and CO2 too.

[Shadow]

There are many factor that may cause it to fail.

[ken90ken]

Update! I flooded the tank on 23rd Feb. It's been 8 days so far.

Here's day 3 pictures again for comparison:

DSC_0666.jpgDSC_0667.jpg

Here's day 8! I added 2 patches of HC i took from my workplace. Quite obvious which are the 2 patches...

DSC_0678.jpgDSC_0679.jpg

Doesn't look like there is much change here?

[Urban Aquaria]

Since its only been 8 days, its usual for HC to experience some browning and die-out before they recover and grow again... during my HC DSM, the first 2 weeks also had portions of HC browning and dying, and that's with unlimited Co2 direct from the air and lights on for 14 hours without any barriers from water.

I guess for a flooded tank with newly planted HC, that should be expected, looks like you will probably need to wait it out and see if they recover. It could also just be a batch of weak and dying HC, which will naturally wither away anyways.

By the way, how did you grow the HC in your workplace tank? Any different methods or equipment you used? Since they grew well in your office tank conditions, maybe you could just duplicate the conditions and see if it works too.

[ken90ken]

Since its only been 8 days, its usual for HC to experience some browning and die-out before they recover and grow again... during my HC DSM, the first 2 weeks also had portions of HC browning and dying, and that's with unlimited Co2 direct from the air and lights on for 14 hours without any barriers from water.

I guess for a flooded tank with newly planted HC, that should be expected, looks like you will probably need to wait it out and see if they recover. It could also just be a batch of weak and dying HC, which will naturally wither away anyways.

By the way, how did you grow the HC in your workplace tank? Any different methods or equipment you used? Since they grew well in your office tank conditions, maybe you could just duplicate the conditions and see if it works too.

I really hope they will recover, not sure how long would the wait be...? My office conditions should be the same, just cooler temp at 24 deg C. Impossible to duplicate that here, have to spend alot on air-con!

Guess i'll just wait and see then. Would dosing of any certain type of nutrient help the HC to adapt quicker?

[Urban Aquaria]

I really hope they will recover, not sure how long would the wait be...? My office conditions should be the same, just cooler temp at 24 deg C. Impossible to duplicate that here, have to spend alot on air-con!

Guess i'll just wait and see then. Would dosing of any certain type of nutrient help the HC to adapt quicker?

Perhaps 2-3 weeks, have to monitor and see... during my HC DSM, i only saw them really bounce back and grow aggressively from the 4th week onwards. Then after flooding, even with established roots and large carpeted plant mass, it still took another 2 weeks for them to transition fully.

I guess dosing both macro and micro nutrients will be beneficial, along with sufficient lights and Co2, the combination should help the HC during its transition period.

[ken90ken]

Okay thanks!

By the way, i have a very light film on the surface of my water. Any idea what is causing this? Should i use a surface skimmer to attach to my canister?

Any other way i can remove this film without using my skimmer?

[Urban Aquaria]

Okay thanks!

By the way, i have a very light film on the surface of my water. Any idea what is causing this? Should i use a surface skimmer to attach to my canister?

Any other way i can remove this film without using my skimmer?

I get that in my tanks when they are newly started up, but after a while they seem to disappear... i guess it could just be oils initially released from the soil substrate or from fish food.

Surface agitation helps to dissipate it, or you could also lay a paper towel over the surface and soak up the oil layer. Not sure if it actually helps, but i've found that floating plants seem to absorb it too.

[ken90ken]

I see, may well could be the soil substrate then.. I don't think it affects the plants much but i could be wrong.

I'm just afraid when it's time for fish to go in it might prevent O2 exchange between air/water. Guess i'll just wait a month and see then!

Surface agitation for a CO2 supplemented tank isn't wise is it..? Shouldn't it release some of the CO2 dissolved in water into the atmosphere?

So my options here are paper towel and floating plants?

Thanks for the nice reply by the way!