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Thread: BBA Problem, need help

  1. #1

    BBA Problem, need help

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    Hi All,

    My tanks have been over run with BBA and I am at a lost on how to get rid of it.

    I have done all the wrong things, etc 12 hours lights, overdose on the fertiliser... The Back of the tank with the black rocky foams are almost 70% cover with them. I have try scrapping and reducing the lights on to 8 hrs + water change. I even remove those affected plants and planted new ones with high nutrient requirements. But it is still there.

    Short of a complete tear down of the tanks and the back drop, what else can I do ?

    Below is the info sheet after I have reduce the lights hours.

    I also have a UV running 24 hrs.

    Beginners Info Sheet
    ++++++++++++++++++

    Tank Dimensions (LxWxH): 90 x 45 x 60
    Lighting Intensity(No of Watts) : 200 w
    Type of Lighting (FL/PL/MH) : PL
    No. of Hours your light is on: 8
    CO2 Injection Rate (bps) : 8
    Type of CO2 (DIY/Liquid/Tank) : tank
    Method of Injection (e.g. Diffusor/Reactor): reactor
    Substrate Used : Dennerle
    How Thick is your base fert : 1 cm
    How thick is your gravel : 8 cm
    Liquid Fertilizers Used : V30 & Flourish
    Frequency of fertilization : none now
    Tank Temperature : 28
    Type of Filter (overhead/internal/canister) : sumptank
    Filter media used : filter wool + biohome only
    How long has your tank been set up : 3 months


    Chemical Properties (Fill what you can)
    ---------------------------------------

    Carbonate Hardness (kh): 3
    Total Hardness (gH): did not measure
    PH : 6.5
    NH4 (ppm): not measure
    NO2 (ppm): not measure
    NO3 (ppm): not measue
    PO4 (ppm): not measure
    Fe (ppm): not measure

    Bioload (Your Fish and Plants)
    ------------------------------

    <State what fishes and plants you have to the best of your ability>

    70 +Cardinal, 10 yamato, 10 cherry, 10 algae crew, Hairglass, glosse, tiger lily and some plants I do not know the name


    Describe your problem :

    BBA

    Will try to upload the pictures tonight.

    Thanks for the help.

  2. #2
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    Folks with high critter loading and poor CO2/inconsistent CO2 level get this. You need to address both or either issue in your case to prevent further outbreaks. For the current BBA, the only method is by manual removal followed by large water changes (50-70%) to prevent the adult BBA from spreading new young spores when being stressed.

    Regards
    Peter Gwee

  3. #3

    Re:

    [quote:f092f7ce3b="PeterGwee"]Folks with high critter loading and poor CO2/inconsistent CO2 level get this. You need to address both or either issue in your case to prevent further outbreaks. For the current BBA, the only method is by manual removal followed by large water changes (50-70%) to prevent the adult BBA from spreading new young spores when being stressed.

    Regards
    Peter Gwee [/quote:f092f7ce3b]

    Hi Peter,

    O.K. will start tonight with the manual removal follow by water change.
    As for the CO2, I am measuring with a sera CO2 kit which is inside the tank. It is acheving 20 to 30 ppm. I think it was when I was fine tunning it that I have adjusted it quite a few times therfore the inconsistent level.

    Is there anyway to manual remove the BBA without damaging my foam backdrop ?? It is D*** hard to scrap off even with a pen knife or green wool.

    Thanks for the help.

    Cheers

  4. #4
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    You have very high lights. You have to look into the dosage of NO3 and PO4 too.

    BC

  5. #5
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    As for the CO2, I am measuring with a sera CO2 kit which is inside the tank. It is acheving 20 to 30 ppm.
    Use a pH test kit/test pen and KH test kit to determine the CO2 instead of the CO2 kit. The CO2 kit is slow in response and does not really tell you much imo/ime.

    Is there anyway to manual remove the BBA without damaging my foam backdrop ?? It is D*** hard to scrap off even with a pen knife or green wool.
    Use bleach mixed with water then but I won't know what would happen to the colour of the background though. The other point to note is that bleach is toxic to critters and you need to clean it throughly after using it by means of rinsing it in anti-chlorine solution. When the bleach smell is gone, it should be relatively safe to return the foam back to the tank.

    If things sounds complicated or troublesome, toss the background then...simple and no complications. You might want to do a moss wall instead...

    Regards
    Peter Gwee

  6. #6

    Re:

    [quote:48d5123c10="bclee"]You have very high lights. You have to look into the dosage of NO3 and PO4 too.

    BC[/quote:48d5123c10]

    Hi bclee,

    it is about 3watt per gallon, so should be pretty o.k.

    The NO3 and PO4 dosage what does it do ??


    Thanks for the help in advance.

    Cheers

  7. #7
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    Steven, try to work on the CO2 first...nothing is going to get used up much if you are already limited on the carbon side. Once you have an idea of going about measuring your CO2 level using pH and KH and adjusted the CO2 such that it hits the good range during the photoperiod, you can then start dosing stuff like N,P,K and traces.

    Regards
    Peter Gwee

  8. #8

    Re:

    [quote:49eeba8a15="PeterGwee"]
    As for the CO2, I am measuring with a sera CO2 kit which is inside the tank. It is acheving 20 to 30 ppm.
    Use a pH test kit/test pen and KH test kit to determine the CO2 instead of the CO2 kit. The CO2 kit is slow in response and does not really tell you much imo/ime.

    Is there anyway to manual remove the BBA without damaging my foam backdrop ?? It is D*** hard to scrap off even with a pen knife or green wool.
    Use bleach mixed with water then but I won't know what would happen to the colour of the background though. The other point to note is that bleach is toxic to critters and you need to clean it throughly after using it by means of rinsing it in anti-chlorine solution. When the bleach smell is gone, it should be relatively safe to return the foam back to the tank.

    If things sounds complicated or troublesome, toss the background then...simple and no complications. You might want to do a moss wall instead...

    Regards
    Peter Gwee [/quote:49eeba8a15]

    Hi Peter,

    I have a PH pen that one no problem. But I am having a problem with the KH test kit. The part that saids that add drop by drop till the color cross over from blue to green to yellow. My stays clear and change to yellow direct after a few drops. Is that correct ?

    Should I increase my CO2 ? to at least 10 ?

    Sigh.... I was hoping not to take out the back drop... Thats means redoing the whole tank.... down to the plants...... and removing the gravels, washing out the fertiliser.........

    That is worse than setting up a new tank..

    Jilat men.......

    Really like to thank you for your advice on how to solve this BBA problem.

    Cheers

  9. #9
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    Get some baking soda to bump up the KH for some alkaline buffer for the acid(CO2). Read up on the FAQ section for more info on the amount to add and etc.

    If you insist on not taking out the backdrop, you can try critters like SAEs or cigar fish. However, I must warn you that your critter loading is already very heavy and that problems are not getting to you probably because of the sump filter. If you continue adding more critters, you will not only get BBA but loads of other forms of algae.

    Regards
    Peter Gwee

  10. #10

    Re:

    [quote:9bbf01fa7a="PeterGwee"]Steven, try to work on the CO2 first...nothing is going to get used up much if you are already limited on the carbon side. Once you have an idea of going about measuring your CO2 level using pH and KH and adjusted the CO2 such that it hits the good range during the photoperiod, you can then start dosing stuff like N,P,K and traces.

    Regards
    Peter Gwee [/quote:9bbf01fa7a]

    Hi Peter,

    I have try to used calculate the CO2 PPM but sigh I am still trying to figure out the instructions on how to used the KH test kit.... Blue-green-yellow.....

    Mine goes to yellow after 5 or 6 drops. no blue/green first. That means a KH of 5 or 6 right ? Is that o.k. ?

    Now Big head already....alot of these is new to me....


    Cheers

  11. #11
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    Your first drop should always turn blue if your KH is more than 1. If the sample turns yellow upon the first drop of the reagent, your KH is 1 or less. Try to target a KH of 3 at least....add baking soda to do that. Do not mix it up with baking powder though..

    1 teaspoon of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) in 50L of water will raise it by 4 dkH. That should give you a rough guide of how much to add though.

    Regards
    Peter Gwee

  12. #12

    Re:

    [quote:7398ef3125="PeterGwee"]Get some baking soda to bump up the KH for some alkaline buffer for the acid(CO2). Read up on the FAQ section for more info on the amount to add and etc.

    If you insist on not taking out the backdrop, you can try critters like SAEs or cigar fish. However, I must warn you that your critter loading is already very heavy and that problems are not getting to you probably because of the sump filter. If you continue adding more critters, you will not only get BBA but loads of other forms of algae.

    Regards
    Peter Gwee [/quote:7398ef3125]

    Hi Peter,

    What is the desire KH ? I know baking soda increase the KH and at the same time the PH also. Can I use KH down from sera ? I have the PH minus also to buffer for the increase in the PH.

    But can you advise if the way I am measuring the KH correct ??

    Don't think I will be adding anymore critters.... Can't even remove the BBA with hand, how are they gonna eat it ???


    Cheers

  13. #13

    Re:

    [quote:0391684fd8="PeterGwee"]Your first drop should always turn blue if your KH is more than 1. If the sample turns yellow upon the first drop of the reagent, your KH is 1 or less. Try to target a KH of 3 at least....add baking soda to do that. Do not mix it up with baking powder though..

    1 teaspoon of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) in 50L of water will raise it by 4 dkH. That should give you a rough guide of how much to add though.

    Regards
    Peter Gwee [/quote:0391684fd8]

    Ohhhh I get.... 1st drop should turn blue and if goes to even slight yellow that means my KH is 1 or less.

    I think I know whats wrong... Thank Peter... Will do some shopping for the KH down/Baking soda.. and post the result later.

    Thanks again !!!

    Cheers

  14. #14
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    .....There is no desire KH, as long as there is enough to buffer the acid(CO2), you are fine. The safe value that most folks suggest would be 3dKH or more.


    Can I use KH down from sera ? I have the PH minus also to buffer for the increase in the PH.
    You can use the KH plus stuff but not the KH down thing. (You are trying to raise the KH and not bring it down. If you want to drop the KH in a planted tank, do not use KH down stuff but rather a large water change would do it.) Do not use the pH minus stuff as well....You are not trying to get attain some pH value here. What you are now trying to do is to inject CO2 for the plants to use and the only way you are going to find out how much is the CO2 concentration is by means of pH and KH measurements. Hope you get that...Do not use any other stuff...just CO2 gas and baking soda. Its cheaper in the long run.

    Regards
    Peter Gwee

  15. #15

    Re:

    [quote:8808ab221d="PeterGwee"] .....There is no desire KH, as long as there is enough to buffer the acid(CO2), you are fine. The safe value that most folks suggest would be 3dKH or more.


    Can I use KH down from sera ? I have the PH minus also to buffer for the increase in the PH.
    You can use the KH plus stuff but not the KH down thing. (You are trying to raise the KH and not bring it down. If you want to drop the KH in a planted tank, do not use KH down stuff but rather a large water change would do it.) Do not use the pH minus stuff as well....You are not trying to get attain some pH value here. What you are now trying to do is to inject CO2 for the plants to use and the only way you are going to find out how much is the CO2 concentration is by means of pH and KH measurements. Hope you get that...Do not use any other stuff...just CO2 gas and baking soda. Its cheaper in the long run.

    Regards
    Peter Gwee [/quote:8808ab221d]

    Yes Sir !!!

    Going to supermarket now !!! Baking Soda !! and CO2 only !!!

    Will let post the result tonight !!!

    Cheers

  16. #16
    I am planning to set up a 3 ft planted tank and is tempted to use either a sump tank or wet-dry filter as some vendors claim that there is no need to do water change so often compared to canister filters.

    Seems that the algae problem was caused by the unstable or low CO2 level ??

    Should I give up the idea of using sump tank or wet-dry filter?
    Cheers

  17. #17
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    Use a syringe and squirt Hydrogen Peroxide onto the BBA on your wall. You'll see a lot of bubbles as the peroxide burns the BBA and kills it (become white). Your shrimp will eat up the dead BBA. You don't need to remove the wall from your tank to do this, however, do small portions daily, instead of the whole wall one shot, and avoid spraying the peroxide directly on your fish/shrimp.

    NOTE: This is a method I use only when I absolutely cannot remove the BBA affected equipment/plant from the tank. It'll kill the existing BBA but will not remedy your problem if your tank is unbalanced. Use on plants may result in the plant melting, so be very careful. Drop me a pm if you're not sure of anything.

    On another note, recently, I had neglected my tank and then I later noticed BBA growing and stem plants turning white and melting at the tips. Checked my ph and kh and CO2 was way over 100ppm! Lost some yamatos but cherry shrimps were amazingly tough. I believe either the NO3 or PO4 had bottomed out, probably due to lack of water change and/or insufficient dosing, so do watch out for that when you increase your CO2.

  18. #18

    Re:

    [quote:69b8254cab="PeterGwee"] .....There is no desire KH, as long as there is enough to buffer the acid(CO2), you are fine. The safe value that most folks suggest would be 3dKH or more.


    Can I use KH down from sera ? I have the PH minus also to buffer for the increase in the PH.
    You can use the KH plus stuff but not the KH down thing. (You are trying to raise the KH and not bring it down. If you want to drop the KH in a planted tank, do not use KH down stuff but rather a large water change would do it.) Do not use the pH minus stuff as well....You are not trying to get attain some pH value here. What you are now trying to do is to inject CO2 for the plants to use and the only way you are going to find out how much is the CO2 concentration is by means of pH and KH measurements. Hope you get that...Do not use any other stuff...just CO2 gas and baking soda. Its cheaper in the long run.

    Regards
    Peter Gwee [/quote:69b8254cab]

    Hi Peter,

    Result as follows :

    Before adding the baking soda, Cannot even measure the KH.

    After adding 2 teaspoon of baking solder, measure after 1 hour, KH is 4. PH 6.7

    The plants start to bubble like mad !!! Wow my tank is really unbalance.

    What should I do next ? I have not change the water yet and for the moment I have not started scrapping the BBA.

    Cheers

  19. #19

    Re:

    [quote:3542ef6a08="victri"]Use a syringe and squirt Hydrogen Peroxide onto the BBA on your wall. You'll see a lot of bubbles as the peroxide burns the BBA and kills it (become white). Your shrimp will eat up the dead BBA. You don't need to remove the wall from your tank to do this, however, do small portions daily, instead of the whole wall one shot, and avoid spraying the peroxide directly on your fish/shrimp.

    NOTE: This is a method I use only when I absolutely cannot remove the BBA affected equipment/plant from the tank. It'll kill the existing BBA but will not remedy your problem if your tank is unbalanced. Use on plants may result in the plant melting, so be very careful. Drop me a pm if you're not sure of anything.

    On another note, recently, I had neglected my tank and then I later noticed BBA growing and stem plants turning white and melting at the tips. Checked my ph and kh and CO2 was way over 100ppm! Lost some yamatos but cherry shrimps were amazingly tough. I believe either the NO3 or PO4 had bottomed out, probably due to lack of water change and/or insufficient dosing, so do watch out for that when you increase your CO2.[/quote:3542ef6a08]

    Hi Bro Victri,

    That a good ideal, BTW where can I get the Hydrogen Peroxide ?
    Do I need to do a water change after the BBA turn white ?

    Does NO3 = Nitrate level ?
    How about PO4 what does it mean ?

    Is there a way to measure the PO4 ?

    Thanks for the info and help !!

    Cheers

  20. #20
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    Re:

    [quote:642b4c795a="stevensim"]Hi Bro Victri,

    That a good ideal, BTW where can I get the Hydrogen Peroxide ?
    Do I need to do a water change after the BBA turn white ?

    Does NO3 = Nitrate level ?
    How about PO4 what does it mean ?

    Is there a way to measure the PO4 ?

    Thanks for the info and help !!

    Cheers[/quote:642b4c795a]

    You can get Hydrogen Peroxide from Guardian pharmacy. I think it's about $4-5 for a 500ml bottle. Just look for the dark brown glass bottle or ask the staff. Drop me a pm before you start using it and I'll walk you through the process. Do not attempt this unless you know what it entails. Overdose can kill plants and livestock in your tank!

    NO3 referring to nitrate level and PO4 referring to phosphate. Both can be measured with test kits that you can buy from LFS. You might want to look through the stickies or use a search and read up on dosing of these two.

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