CRS dying...help

[lyebw225]

i bought 10 CRS from Y618 last wed, so far 5 have died (about 1 a day). my tank was running previously and it is cycled as i've kept fish inside. I transferred my fish to another tank and added in the CRS i bought. The first day was ok, none died. But from the second day onwards (coincidentally after i added my java fern), my CRS started to die. I'm using substrate for my tank along with sponge filter. i also have a driftwood and some java moss. i've done a 30% water change last friday but my shrimps are still dying. help!!!

[alvinchan80]

It's the java ferns that is the cause from what you mentioned... Might be fertilizer, pesticide, etc...

Remove the java fern for now, add in active carbon sachet where there is a flow of water..

I would say its too late to remove the shrimps, can try do moderate water changes every alternate day to try 'remove' the bad stuff in the water.. But make sure that the water used for water changes are aged.. Try dosing Old Sea Mud powder and bacteria to your tank..

Happy shrimping..

[lyebw225]

i've soaked the java fern overnight and rinsed it thoroughly the next day before adding it in. does it still pose a problem? i've noticed one some empty shrimp casings around, could it be that my shrimp have died while molting? i used dechlorinator before adding new water into my tank.

[alvinchan80]

i've soaked the java fern overnight and rinsed it thoroughly the next day before adding it in. does it still pose a problem? i've noticed one some empty shrimp casings around, could it be that my shrimp have died while molting? i used dechlorinator before adding new water into my tank.

Soaking newly acquired plants over night doesn't really remove the fertilizer or pesticide in them.. I heard of people soaking and changing water for newly bought plants for many days...

In my opinion, if there are molt shells around, means they are molting properly.. If they have molting issues, molted shells should be still attached to the shrimp..

I would still feel that it's the newly placed java fern..

[lyebw225]

hmm ok, thanks for the advice. i'll remove the java ferns tmr if i find anymore dead shrimps tmr... i bought the java fern from Y618, those sealed in plastic packages...should be safe right? how do i ensure that the plants are actually safe for shrimps?

[Urban Aquaria]

It might just be your batch of shrimps being weakened from the stress of the transfer and being put into a new tank environment. CRS are usually more sensitive to changing water parameters compared to RCS.

Fishes are usually more hardy compared to shrimps too, so even if the fishes are doing okay in a tank, it may not necessarily mean that its okay for shrimps yet (especially if you are adding CRS).

How are your tank parameters and water temperature?

Btw, did you do a slow drip-acclimatization on the shrimps before introducing them to your tank too?

[lyebw225]

sorry i'm new, what's the difference between CRS and RCS? i think mine are those of lower quality (colour). I keep them in a 2ft tank, not too sure about the tank parameters and water temperature as i do not have the equipment. My fishes survived well in the tank though, so the water should be relatively safe i guess? I might have put in my shrimps too soon in to the tank, what do you mean by slow drip-acclimatization? like putting the bag of shrimps in the tank for a while before releasing them in?

[elwaynetan]

i bought 10 CRS from Y618 last wed, so far 5 have died (about 1 a day). my tank was running previously and it is cycled as i've kept fish inside. I transferred my fish to another tank and added in the CRS i bought. The first day was ok, none died. But from the second day onwards (coincidentally after i added my java fern), my CRS started to die. I'm using substrate for my tank along with sponge filter. i also have a driftwood and some java moss. i've done a 30% water change last friday but my shrimps are still dying. help!!!

1. How was your water test? Ammonia? Nitrite, Nitrate?
2. How long was your tank cycled?
3. Is your tank running on any chiller?
4. What substrate are you using?

[elwaynetan]

i've soaked the java fern overnight and rinsed it thoroughly the next day before adding it in. does it still pose a problem? i've noticed one some empty shrimp casings around, could it be that my shrimp have died while molting? i used dechlorinator before adding new water into my tank.

What colour are the casings? Usually, if they are white, chances are your shrimps are molting perfectly well. Usually shrimps die because of molting issues. The next time you find another one, pick it up and look between the head and body. See if there is a crack.

Anyway, your first time? or no? If yes, it usually takes a while to get used to this. They are afterall sensitive creatures.

[elwaynetan]

sorry i'm new, what's the difference between CRS and RCS? i think mine are those of lower quality (colour). I keep them in a 2ft tank, not too sure about the tank parameters and water temperature as i do not have the equipment. My fishes survived well in the tank though, so the water should be relatively safe i guess? I might have put in my shrimps too soon in to the tank, what do you mean by slow drip-acclimatization? like putting the bag of shrimps in the tank for a while before releasing them in?

CRS = Crystal Red Shrimps while RCS = Red Cherry Shrimps.

CRS: White and Red. Like it has to be opaque white and red. More white better than more red. But must have white and red. RCS: basic colour is slightly orange mini irregular stripes all around the body, causing the illusion for it to be slightly orangey red. Advanced colours are Fire Red, Taiwan Painted Red, etc.

Like what Urban Aquaria said, fishes are much more hardier than shrimps. So even if your fishes survived well in your tank now, it does not mean your shrimps will fare the same.

Slow drip acclimatization means letting the shrimps get used to your tank water slowly while they are in their previous water. you drip the water in instead of pouring the water, causing shock to the creatures. Putting the bag into the tank a while before releasing is a old school-method. Apparently, it only works for fishes. Even having said that, you should try to drip your fishes, or at least slowly pour in your tank water to let them get used to their new tank.

Imagine this, you can't throw a kid into a garbage dump and expect him to live well in it overnight. It will take years of feeding him garbage and walking him past a garbage dump, each day spending longer time there before he will be comfortable there. Same logic.

[Urban Aquaria]

sorry i'm new, what's the difference between CRS and RCS? i think mine are those of lower quality (colour). I keep them in a 2ft tank, not too sure about the tank parameters and water temperature as i do not have the equipment. My fishes survived well in the tank though, so the water should be relatively safe i guess? I might have put in my shrimps too soon in to the tank, what do you mean by slow drip-acclimatization? like putting the bag of shrimps in the tank for a while before releasing them in?

CRS = Crystal Red Shrimps (http://www.planetinverts.com/crystal...g%20guide.html)

RCS = Red Cherry Shrimps (http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...re-Red-Shrimps)

If you bought those shrimps with white/red bands then those are CRS and they require specific tank conditions and parameters (http://www.planetinverts.com/Crystal...%20Shrimp.html)

If you bought those shrimps which are all or mostly red in color, the those are RCS and they are more tolerant to a wider range of tank conditions, but will still be susceptible to toxic parameters.

Fishes surviving in a tank may not mean that the water parameters are stable yet (they could be hardy fish or they're suffering but not dying yet), if you have not tested your water for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/pH, then its impossible to confirm what stage of the tank cycling process you are in... your tank parameters could still be spiking at toxic levels.

Drip acclimatization is the process of dripping water from your current tank to another separate container with the new shrimps so that they can slowly acclimatize to your tank conditions, its better to do it (especially for more sensitive shrimps).

Here is a guide on how its done: http://www.liveaquaria.com/PIC/article.cfm?aid=157 (its the same process for freshwater fishes and shrimps)

If you just dump them into your tank, they may get shocked by the immediate change in different water parameters, and if they are already in a weak state, it could result in higher death rates over time.

[lyebw225]

thanks for the advice guys...yes i do realize i introduced my RCS into the tank too soon, that may have been the main cause of the deaths over time. Afer all this is my first time rearing shrimps. I have taken out the java fern and did a 30% water change, will try and get some test kits. i've noticed some of the shrimps that died indeed have cracks behind their heads, have they died from molting? i've placed a small portion of cuttlebone into the tank, or should i grind them into small flakes? another question, how to ensure that live plants bought are insecticide/fertilizer free?

[Urban Aquaria]

thanks for the advice guys...yes i do realize i introduced my RCS into the tank too soon, that may have been the main cause of the deaths over time. Afer all this is my first time rearing shrimps. I have taken out the java fern and did a 30% water change, will try and get some test kits. i've noticed some of the shrimps that died indeed have cracks behind their heads, have they died from molting? i've placed a small portion of cuttlebone into the tank, or should i grind them into small flakes? another question, how to ensure that live plants bought are insecticide/fertilizer free?

Before you add more items in the tank to change its parameters, it'll be a good idea to get test kits to check the water conditions first, so you know exactly whats happening... if you are keeping CRS, then maybe consider getting gH and Kh test kits too, as they usually require a certain range of those parameters to thrive.

Btw, CRS also require cooler water too (might need a fan or chiller).

As for plants, you could check with the LFS to make sure there are no harmful pesticides used on them (though i've never heard of any LFS actually admit it).

To prepare them, you should just wash the plants well with clean water, then soak them in a separate tank or container to quarantine for a few days... hopefully that can help dissipate any harmful pesticides in the plants.

During the quarantine period, you'll also have the opportunity to spot any pest snails, worms or algae that also hitchhiked on the plants.

Some friends i know are so kiasu that they actually soak the plants in diluted bleach (to kill germs), then soak in salt water (to kill snails), then soak in excel solution (to kill algae)... then quarantine for 2 weeks. Its alot more work and some of the more delicate plants cannot survive through all that intensive cleaning process though, so have to see if its worth all the extra effort.

[lyebw225]

yes i've taken out the java fern, currently soaking in tap water...can i use dechlorinator to remove pesticides/fertilizer from plants? it claims to remove heavy metals which i presume is the main cause of shrimps dying? so far i've noticed no snails or algae, i went down to Y618 again and the lady boss told me their plants do not have pesticides/fertilizer. She said it is most likely due to my substrate. Now to think of it, maybe that's the problem. I'm not sure of what substrate i bought (long ago bought and threw away the package). Maybe it's too acidic due to fertilizers present? My substrate are fine black gravel, not too sure if it's aquasoil (which i heard is harmful to shrimps). And yes, i probably should be getting test kits, but i checked and they are kinda expensive, like $40 just for nitrates and ammonia. Currently i've 3 RCS left and hopefully the water parameters will more or less stabilize.

[Urban Aquaria]

yes i've taken out the java fern, currently soaking in tap water...can i use dechlorinator to remove pesticides/fertilizer from plants? it claims to remove heavy metals which i presume is the main cause of shrimps dying? so far i've noticed no snails or algae, i went down to Y618 again and the lady boss told me their plants do not have pesticides/fertilizer. She said it is most likely due to my substrate. Now to think of it, maybe that's the problem. I'm not sure of what substrate i bought (long ago bought and threw away the package). Maybe it's too acidic due to fertilizers present? My substrate are fine black gravel, not too sure if it's aquasoil (which i heard is harmful to shrimps). And yes, i probably should be getting test kits, but i checked and they are kinda expensive, like $40 just for nitrates and ammonia. Currently i've 3 RCS left and hopefully the water parameters will more or less stabilize.

Soaking plants in de-chlorinated treated water is good, not sure if that also removes pesticides too, but no harm to try.

CRS do best in slightly acidic water (usually around pH 6.2-6.6)... most people use soil which help buffer pH to those levels.

Aqua soil itself is not harmful to shrimps. Its only during the initial period when the tank is cycling and the ammonia released is high and the pH is pulled very low temporarily, that's when the tank conditions are harmful to fishes or shrimps (during the cycling period, only plants should be in the tank as that's what the aqua soil is designed for, to kick start plant growth)... once the tank is cycled, all the parameters will stabilize and it will then be safe for fishes and shrimps.

It is possible that your tank is still cycling, so a test kit would assist to verify the conditions.

I use an API Freshwater Master Test Kit which tests for Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate/pH and it cost around S$50+, its worth getting a kit like that to use if you are starting and cycling new tanks, it'll help reduce all the random guesswork.

[lyebw225]

will adding new plants affect the pH of the tank such that the shrimps are affected? yeah the test kits are really expensive, guess i'll just trial and error first. Hopefully the tank will stabilize soon.
what are good plants for tanks with no co2 input and low light? (except java fern and moss)

[Urban Aquaria]

will adding new plants affect the pH of the tank such that the shrimps are affected? yeah the test kits are really expensive, guess i'll just trial and error first. Hopefully the tank will stabilize soon.
what are good plants for tanks with no co2 input and low light? (except java fern and moss)

Live plants don't usually affect pH significantly, unless alot of them happen to die off in a short period of time and the water becomes fouled with too much rotting plant matter, then that might cause pH to drop (similar effect to how some aquarists put dried ketapang leaves to rot in the tank to create low pH blackwater environments).

You can try anubias plants too, those are very hardy, don't require additional Co2 and can thrive in low light, but very slow growth and tends to get algae on the leaves though... they are almost like plastic plants.

[lyebw225]

ok...i shall stick to java moss for now...just did a headcount of my shrimp, realized i've 4 left, with one berried. And they are out eating a slice of cuttlebone i placed. Is this a sign of water parameters more or less stabilizing?

[Urban Aquaria]

I guess without test kits you'll just have to monitor the shrimps (they'll be your living test kits )... the shrimps remaining are usually the hardier ones, if they can survive for another week or so then most likely the water conditions are becoming stable enough for them.

[lyebw225]

ok...i shall wait and see for a week before my next water change...thanks a lot