Lab cultured plants vs Farm grown plants?

[Urban Aquaria]

I'm currently starting up brand new tanks, everything will be new, including the substrate, equipments and plants. So they are like a "blank canvas" to work on.

With more choices of lab cultured plants available locally, there is now an opportunity to use plants from a "safe" lab source without requiring quarantine, such plants are guaranteed to be free from algae, snails and other pest hitchhikers.

My question is... has anyone tried only stocking new tanks strictly with lab cultured plants only? If so, did you find a difference in the appearance of algae? ie. certain type of algae never appear?

I've calculated that stocking a tank with only lab cultured plants would cost around 3-4 times more than if using farm grown plants, and not all plants are lab cultured so the selection is limited too. So i'm weighing the pros and cons of both approaches.

In this situation, there wouldn't be much point in mixing lab cultured plants with farm grown plants as the algae-free, pest-free benefit in lab cultured plants is totally nulled by all the algae and pests that come on farm grown plants (even after washing and quarantine, lots of hitchhikers still stay on).... is its either all lab cultured, or just go for cheaper farm grown and get ready to fight pests and algae.

I also know that there are already some common algae species in our tap water and they probably also come in soil substrates too, but i'm keen to find out if by only using lab cultured plants, whether it can at least minimize or even totally block other troublesome types of algae that spread from physical transfer (ie. cladophora algae, hair/thread algae, staghorn algae etc).

Kindly share your thoughts and experiences on this!

[joe]

Bro, thanks for your tank. In fact, I had the same question as you but went ahead to buy a tub of Tropica Eleocharis so 'mini' to try out right after I met you. Never try never know LOL

[Urban Aquaria]

Bro, thanks for your tank. In fact, I had the same question as you but went ahead to buy a tub of Tropica Eleocharis so 'mini' to try out right after I met you. Never try never know LOL

Cool!

Maybe i should also just dedicate one of my new tanks to 100% lab cultured plants too, do an experiment on it.

[Shadow]

Tissue Culture:
Good:
- Free of pest
- Come with correct naming
Bad:
- Pricey, more that 6 times farm grown plant price ($13 vs $1-$2)
- Small, baby plant size. It is fine for foreground plant but not for stem plant

Farm grown:
Good:
- Cheap, even cheaper if you buy from farm
- Mature size 15-20 cm stem plants. You can have presentable scape from day 1.
Bad:
- Any type of pest are inside, snail, worm, larvae, etc
- Does not come with name, sometime even wrong name

Personally I still go for farm grown, cheap, just imagine how many $13 container needed to fully fill 3ft or 4ft tank . I can get tank ready in 3 months or less using mature stem plants . Pest? Snail? put puffer. Worm? any fish will eat it. Dragonfly larvae? couples of missing shrimp-lets are acceptable. Algae wise does not really matter because its spore in your water supply anyway.

[Navanod]

It'll certainly be an interesting experiment...I had always believed that certain exotic algaes can only be introduced via farmed plants or from livestock water/droppings from a tank with the algaes.
Most commercial aquarium soil had been baked so it is unlikely for most algaes to hitch a ride on it.

Please prove that BBA, staghorn and cladophora will not appear via our tap water! If you use RO water, even the tap source can be eliminated!

[felix_fx2]

not the expert, but tap water and air may carry the spores.

it would be interesting & expensive experiments. let us know the result.

Sent from my GT-N7105

[Shadow]

What do you know, you are right, algae spore do airborne but I do not know whether it is the same as algae we see in Aquarium. Below link for your pleasure reading

http://books.google.com.sg/books?id=...page&q&f=false

http://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu...pdf?sequence=1

[Alvin Koh]

One point to consider would also be the rarity/type of plant.
I recently bought several tubs of lab-cultured UG (Utricularia Graminifolia) and there are some noticeable benefits:

1) Cost - UG was quite hard to find (2 years ago) and thus the cost is relatively higher ($20-30 last time for small amount). The lab cultured version is actually cheaper for the same quantity as the culture is surprisingly dense once you wash off the gel.
2) Ease of use - Clean healthy specimen. I remembered spending 1-2 hrs doing prep work for UG that were locally farmed. Slightly tiring, but the bigger issue was the wastage as the leaves were really delicate (threw away 40-50% which were infested with algae and/or dying leaves).

So from a cost perspective, it depends on the species. If there are healthy local farmed supplies at a fraction of the cost, it would indeed make less sense to pay the premium but it's a very nice option to have tissue cultures direct from reputable sources and you know you're getting exactly what you paid for.

[milk_vanilla]

My tank plants are consisting of either lab and farm grown plants.
I bought them based on what was the requirement, sometime you feel urgent and wanting to planting and disturb your soil in 1 shot. Rather than multiple 'renovation' session. I immediately do water Change after the ' renovation' change, sometime another wc after the following day, depends.

Other than what we're mentioned above by bro above. I feel lab one are not looked fresh anymore, I guess because the journey to reach singapore. But they are indeed original species and grown under scientific culture environment.

[Navanod]

Ok, I'll be setting up a new 4x1ft tank to cycle this weekend. Shrimp tank, so there'll be ADA Amazonia (New), canister filter with recycled media (but washed and dried) and water will be all RO (normally I'll use treated tap, but this is to remove one source of algae).
Will not be adding any livestock or plants (I hope there's enough ammonia in the soil to at least start the cycling) and I'll only top up with RO water, no WC. Might use chemical ammonia to continue the cycle.
I'll run and cycle this tank for 6 weeks with 8hrs of light per day from 1 LED tube and see what algaes will appear. No CO2 injection though.

So now I need some advise. In order to encourage the algaes...should I dose some ferts?
I'm also thinking of doing a one time "bombing" of the tank on day 1 using H2O2, followed by Excel overdose (10 times) to kill off any spores that may be hiding in the hose, canister and media.

Here's the outcome I would liked to see:

Excluded: BBA, Staghorn, Cladophora, Any other "red" algaes and hopefully BGA
Expected to see: Green dust, Green Spot, Thread & Hair algaes, Brown diatom, Green water

Basically, any algae I see would be from the soil and the air. I might do one without even the soil in the future if I can

Any thoughts?

[Shadow]

to induce algae you just need to put plenty of light. Algae will grow regardless fert or no fert.

[Navanod]

True. However, I just wanna be sure that BBA will grow if its hiding in there somewhere. I feel they grow faster in tanks that have CO2 injected but poorly circulated.
BBA is the main thing I'm trying to exclude so I wanna be sure it'll show its face if its there.

[felix_fx2]

to induce algae you just need to put plenty of light. Algae will grow regardless fert or no fert.

lol Shadow, this is so true... especially Cladophora my best friend.

btw, where's urban... TS is missing...

[Urban Aquaria]

I'm definitely following this thread... lots of great points brought up by everyone here.

I guess its almost impossible to 100% exclude algae like hair/thread, BBA or cladophora, only seek to reduce the chances of them popping up, all it takes is a microscopic bit of the algae to enter the tank and it'll attack in the first sign of parameter unbalance.

Even netting new fishes out of a bag of LFS water could transfer over some bits of algae floating around the LFS tank too.

I'm wondering if such algae could also hitchhike on fishes and shrimps too? I've seen snails with BBA growing on their shells, so it could be a possibility.

[Shadow]

you can try UV sterilizer, at least it will eliminate any waterborne algae and algae spore but it will effect the chelated iron. Unless you get those iron tablet and put in the soil.

[Urban Aquaria]

you can try UV sterilizer, at least it will eliminate any waterborne algae and algae spore but it will effect the chelated iron. Unless you get those iron tablet and put in the soil.

Good idea... that could be part of a 1-2-3 combo punch for new tanks. Use H2O2 to nuke the tank, then heavily dose Excel to mop up weakened algae, then run UV sterilizer for a while to kill off any of the floating algae spores and particles remaining.

[AQMS]

you can try UV sterilizer, at least it will eliminate any waterborne algae and algae spore but it will effect the chelated iron. Unless you get those iron tablet and put in the soil.

will it reduce the chances of cladophora?

[Navanod]

I'm definitely following this thread... lots of great points brought up by everyone here.

I guess its almost impossible to 100% exclude algae like hair/thread, BBA or cladophora, only seek to reduce the chances of them popping up, all it takes is a microscopic bit of the algae to enter the tank and it'll attack in the first sign of parameter unbalance.

Even netting new fishes out of a bag of LFS water could transfer over some bits of algae floating around the LFS tank too.

I'm wondering if such algae could also hitchhike on fishes and shrimps too? I've seen snails with BBA growing on their shells, so it could be a possibility.

In that case I bring good news, it is at least possible to exclude BBA. Refer to page 447 of this link and read the bottom right paragraph, with special notice of the "freshwater red algae do not form resting spores (Sheath 1984)"

http://books.google.com.sg/books?id=...ed=0CC0Q6AEwAA

i.e, BBA cannot form spores that survives outside of water. It must be brought in via contaminated water, on plants, on livestocks, in the guts of algae eaters (including shrimps!) or whatever that touches a BBA infested tank's water and then goes into our tanks before drying up totally. As for our tap water...I highly doubt so due to the chlorination.
I believe this to hold true for staghorn algae as well,since its also a red algae (Compsopogon sp.).

However, other green algaes...such as hair and cladophora, as well as cyanobacteria, are still up for debate.

I've started filling up the test tank with RO water already...but its probably going to take awhile. Also cleaned & soaked some of the recycled equipment with H2O2.

[Urban Aquaria]

i.e, BBA cannot form spores that survives outside of water. It must be brought in via contaminated water, on plants, on livestocks, in the guts of algae eaters (including shrimps!)...

Wow... thats what i was afraid of, this could mean that when we add algae eaters like SAE, otos or shrimps into our tanks to help clear algae, we might also unwittingly introduce other new types of algae into the tank too!

[Shadow]

These remind me when I started planted tank. Everything sterilize, H2O2 almost everything and tank water purely from RO. The routine does not last long though , too troublesome and time consuming. I want to be the master of my tank not the slave . I want to spend most of my time looking at my tank instead of tracking care of it.

You guys are too obsess with preventing contamination, why don't use those energy to grow healthy plan instead. Once the plant grow healthy, algae will disappear by it self.