The Striped Barb - dedicated to Nicky

[hwchoy]

Nicky, this is your little Eirmotus octozona contaminant, now all grown up at 5cm. Most likely to be the Systomus lineatus but also could be the larger Systomus johorensis. Some scholars place them under the genus Puntius.

[Nicky]

Choy, you are solid man. First this fish was not that beautiful in my tank. Next it was sick when it went to you. Plus this is a damn fast fish, how on earth did you get such a clear shot?? Anyway Good Job!!

If you go to the following link (author is AQ forumer with nick = kuching)
http://www.geocities.com/rasbora2004/barb.html
and refer to the pic with 2 fishes and some human fingers, you can see exactly how this fish (that I handed over to you) was like when it was small. The fish on the right-bottom in the pic was it when it was little.

2 pictures up and on the right, that was how it looks like during the transformation of the same fish you took the pic now.

So what is the real scientific name of this fish, anyone know?

[hwchoy]

I am waiting to see if Heok Hee might be able to confirm for me, but it is probably the Systomus lineatus or possibly Systomus johorensis, which grows much larger.

It is a beautiful fish, and not an aggressive barb. You will mostly find it named as Puntius lineatus instead (including FishBase), depending which school of scholars you prefer to follow. I follow the school which places it in the Systomus genus, which is a much tighter classification than the general Puntius.

I quote from a message from H.H. Ng:[quote:4d31c077ae="NG Heok Hee"]Systomus was resurrected as a valid genus by Walter Rainboth, who used it for small barbs with a serrated dorsal-fin spine, 2 or 4 barbels, and less than 12 gill rakers on the first gill arch. In contrast, Puntius would have a smooth dorsal spine, only 2 (never 4) barbels, and more than 12 gill rakers on the first arch. So, by this definition, many of the barbs encountered in the aquarium trade are Systomus (S. tetrazona, S. binotatus, S. hexazona, S. partipentazona, S. johorensis, S. gemellus, and so on…).

Of course, this scheme is not adhered to by all workers, so some references (notably those of Kottelat) still refer to these as Puntius.
[/quote:4d31c077ae]

[hwchoy]

Should be a Systomus johorensis, so it will grow a bit bigger.

[kuching]

Hi guys,i'm kuching.
I'm not sure these species are still under puntius or not but i'm telling you the puntius lineatus & puntius johorensis are very similar...look at the 2 pix below:





Can u see the difference?1st 1 is p.lineatus....they got more than 3 stripes running parallel with lateral line but p.ohorensis only got 3 stripes(adult).The juvenile of p.johorensis is looks like p.pentazona!Interesting fish,huh?!!1st i like to swim in school while the 2nd one like to swim alone!(in the wild under my observation)

[hwchoy]

Hi Michael, for most people it will be Puntius, but some of us follows Walter Rainboth so it is Systomus. You notice their dorsal spine is serrated just like the pentazona, partipentazona, hexazona, the T-barbs, etc. The johorensis, lineatus and gemellus (another stripe barb) are systomins.

According to the description papers, the johorensis should have 5-6 stripes when adult. Most important difference is that the lineatus do not have rostral barbels (i.e. the chiu on the upper lip), they only have chiu at the corner of the lower lip. The johorensis have 2 pairs of chiu, one pair on upper lip and one pair at lower lip (maxillary barbel).

The one from Nicky is a johorensis, I can see 2 pairs of chiu, just like lao-fu-zhi.

check out the drama over at petfrd.


here you should be able to see the two pairs of chiu:

[kuching]

btw,both species r found in blackwater.i saw p.lineatus swimming in school under my feets....if i got underwater camera,i will take such as beautiful scene...except the water is red in color.

[hwchoy]

how do you tell lineatus from johorensis when they're in the water?

[kuching]

huh...the 2nd pix i posted is not p.johoresis?I'll go back to check out the barbel of my puntius.....what species do u think?

[kuching]

ok,when u saw them in the wild,u can see the stripe of p.lineatus expecially those stripes on the upper part of the body is more than 3...a few stripes.....& they swim in school ...about 10 or more!while p.johorensis(i assume is this species)is swimming alone & when u see it from above,u only can see 2 stripes...the other stripe near the abdomen is not so clear when u saw them from the above.

[hwchoy]

[quote:4f5763b54b="kuching"]huh...the 2nd pix i posted is not p.johoresis?I'll go back to check out the barbel of my puntius.....what species do u think?[/quote:4f5763b54b]

I think simplest is to check for the chiu. 1-pair = lineatus, 2-pairs = johorensis. If body big big > 6cm also johorensis.

[kuching]

ok,tonight i'll observe the barbel & take pix of these 2 species....check it out tomolo!(i'll post the pix here)

[kuching]

Hi choy....i got a BIG problem to identify the puntius!!!Both species got the 2 pair of barbels...see the pix.first 2 pix is p.lineatus(i assume)...the next 2 pix is p.johorensis(i assume)....so...how to identify?For the last 2...that puntius got a band running across the eyes both for species on the first 2 pix...doesn't got any band...but it got more stripes than the species on the last 2 pix....

[hwchoy]

well, one possibility is the first two pics are Systomus gemellus given that the stripes are thinner. what size is it anyway? Anything bigger than 6cm ought to be Systomus johorensis.

I can't really see that eye-band you mentioned. Apparently there is also a species Systomus trifasciatus that might be similar. if you can get a good side profile shot would help, and indicate the size.

I will try to invite Heok Hee over to have a look. Did you check out that link I gave for petfrd?

[hwchoy]

Michael, the first pair could be either Systomus gemellus or S. johorensis. The second pair should be Systomus trifasciatus, what is the size of this second pair?

If you want to discuss it further with Heok Hee suggest you bring it over to the thread at petfrd discussing the Systomus johorensis.

[kuching]

for the 1 in the 1st 2 pix,the size is 12cm!The next 2 pix,the size is 5cm & it'll keep on growing....

ok,we can discuss in petfrd...but got to wait...cos i'm in the office....can't do anything i wanted...

[hwchoy]

[quote:441a8645ad="kuching"]for the 1 in the 1st 2 pix,the size is 12cm!The next 2 pix,the size is 5cm & it'll keep on growing....

ok,we can discuss in petfrd...but got to wait...cos i'm in the office....can't do anything i wanted...[/quote:441a8645ad]

confirm first pair johorensis, apparently gemellus not found in kalimantan. 12cm is the right size for adult johorensis. the second pair is trifasciatus and it will grow to about the same size as johorensis 10-12cm. it should still have the barred pattern at up to 3-4cm.

[kuching]

thanks choy.....i also pst some pix of these 2 species of barb in petfrd,take a look.

[hwchoy]

[quote:d94cb75366="kuching"]thanks choy.....i also pst some pix of these 2 species of barb in petfrd,take a look.[/quote:d94cb75366]

yup, saw it. anyway you already know HH right.

[kuching]

Which HH you mentioned above?Got 2 HH.The "HH" that i know is THH.I guess you know him,right?The other one is NHH....i am not knowing him that much as Mr Tree does.Anyway both HH is very important person to us!