Starting Up on a 2ft tank

[fateddee]

Hi guys, I'm intending on setting up a 2ft planted aquarium using Ada Amazonia soil.

Can i ask if i should cycle the water for a few weeks first before planting or plant together with my initial set up?
I've read many threads and anyone seem to differ on their opinion.
I intend to plant HC and i read that Aquasoil Amazonia leaches alot of ammonia into the water and that would "melt" the HC.

Any expert advice?

[thebaldingaquarist]

I want to type out my experience with ADA soil to you, but realised that if i do, it will be just "another thing you have read off the internet." the credibility of my post is the same as those other articles/posts you read that confused you. So it the following advice confuses you. please ignore.. ok?

Cycling is a must, regardless of what soil is used. You must have read some articles that ammonia is used in the cycling process to promote bacteria growth in the tank, so with the soil leeching ammonia, won't it be better because you don't have to find another source for ammonia?

That said, your filter (and media) must be able to handle that level of ammonia. For example, an eden 501 is not going to help cut down ammonia in a 4 ft tank. So if the filter is cycling plus the ammonia level can be handled by the filter and media.

Back to the question of HC dying... if high levels of ammonia is not cleared in time for HC and stays in the water for very long periods of time, i think anything will die. So do not worry about ammonia and HC.

You should be worried about low levels of ammonia (because the filter can handle the load) and high levels of nitrates.

Ammonia breaks down to nitrates by the BB in the filter. if the nitrates are not used by the plants, it will be used by algae.

More algae == plants lose out.

From here, the usual Lights, CO2, temperature, fert regime talk comes into play.

So my usual advice is... plant more, more more more more! from the start.. CO2, lights depends on what plants you have selected.

Do post any more queries if you have. I hope i have been of some help.

[fateddee]

Heya, I understand what you're saying. I've been in the hobby for some time but never a planted aquarium. Hence I'm unsure if I can plant whilst cycling the tank. But from your reply I take it that after I complete the aqua scape, I can start planting (more plants the better) and then fill up with water? The problem with the cycling aspect is that my filer is new and i do not have old media to use with it essentially im starting afresh. In this case if i still plant at the initial stages would the ammonia be too high such that it kills thr plants? Btw My filter is a External canister sunsun 404b.
Thanks for your help

[fateddee]

In that case would wate changes also help. Because ADA has some guidelines as to the water changes routine at the onset. Wouldn't that help to prevent extreme levels of ammonia from killing the plants? Just some of my thoughts.

[thebaldingaquarist]

Water changes are necessary. They serve to reduce the ammonia while the filter is processing it.

I don't follow the Ada instruction to the letter. I just make sure first 3 days I do water change of more than 50%.

[thebaldingaquarist]

Water changes are necessary. They serve to reduce the ammonia while the filter is processing it.

I don't follow the Ada instruction to the letter. I just make sure first 3 days I do water change of more than 50%.

I need to clarify myself.. I cycle my tank with starter mulm and media from my other tanks.

[Ingen]

I started my 2ft using ADA amazonia soil and planted HC before flooding. So far no significant melting, probably 10-15% for the past 2 months. Started with brand new filter and media too, took about a week to clear off the initial cloudy water.

[felix_fx2]

Most important is lighting, without light plants do not photosynthesis. During that which they can contribute to cycling.
Co2 is one of the require elements also & need to be present in sufficient quanity for the amount of light provided.

Planting more dense is good, where the plant can quickly establish growth during initial period where ammonia is high and make full use of it.
Most of us plant before flooding, If you do it after flooding various issues may happen. "poke in & plant float back up", "OMG mud cloud" , "water dripping all over the place" just to name a few.
(i plant more in water then dry actually.)

what ADA gave are guidelines, so it's a guide & not rule. What we say also are mostly guideline

my water change normally 30-35% every 2 weeks (if i remember), initial period can be 50-60% (weekly)

[bennyc]

<LI class=section itxtHarvested="0" itxtNodeId="2">What is Ammonia

• Ammonia (NH3) is an un-ionized nitrogen compound found in aquatic ecosystems along with ammonium (NH4+), nitrite (NO2--), and nitrate (NO3--), as dissolved inorganic nitrogen, and occurs naturally as the principal byproduct of fish protein metabolism. It is released through excretion via gills and urine by fish and is usually absorbed by aquatic plants, failing which, it can harm fish and other aquatic animals even if present in trace amounts. However, due to eutrophication, an excessive quantity of ammonia is causing adverse effects on both plant and animal life in aquatic ecosystems.
  
  

Eutrophication

• <LI class="step " itxtHarvested="0" itxtNodeId="18">Eutrophication is the nutrient pollution of natural waters with substances like ammonia, resulting in exponential plant growth and decay, and substantial decrease in the quality of water. Ammonia only favors the growth of certain species of phytoplankton, benthic algae and macrophytes, thus disrupting the biodiversity of aquatic ecosystems. Algal blooms, which has become a global phenomenon, is attributed to man-made ammonia eutrophication, and results in issues like reduced dissolved oxygen levels in water. Most cases of discoloured or 'green' water in natural water bodies is a direct fallout of high ammonia levels, according to the Encyclopedia of Earth's website.
  
  
• 
  

Detrimental Effects

• Apart from the depletion of oxygen from water due to excessive amounts of decaying organic material from dead aquatic vegetation, ammonia causes increased turbidity in the water that prevents sufficient sunlight penetration. This results in a decrease in the growth of submerged aquatic plants, in turn reducing the habitat for other aquatic life with a direct implication on the entire food chain. As stated on the Scorecard website, the rapid growth in aquatic plants due to the boost from ammonia results in various deficiency syndromes from lack of other nutrients.
  
  

Effects of Ammonia on Specific Aquatic Species

• Eelgrass Zostera Marina has shown results of becoming necrotic or dying out within five weeks with ammonia concentrations of less than 25 micromoles per litre. In the case of species like J. Effusus, S. Latifolia, and T. Latifolia, ammonia levels of higher than 200 mg per litre inflicted signs of growth inhibition within a few weeks. For S. Tabernaemontani, concentration levels of more than 100 mg a litre were enough for similar results. Ammonia suppresses growth for unicellular green alga and a certain duckweed plant at concentrations between 3 to 5 ppm. Yellowing of frond margins and smaller fronds have been noticed in the duckweed. In the green alga however, ammonia manages to interrupt the internal organization of the cell itself, apart from altering the plant's dimensions. In another experiment, there was a reduction of 96 percent and 99 percent in the phytoplankton and zooplankton counts respectively, and rooted aquatic plants were destroyed completely, as a result of ammonia induction.
  
  

The Nitrogen Cycle

• It is crucial to understand the nitrogen cycle for the proper monitoring and control of ammonia and other nitrogen compounds, like nitrite, that are toxic to aquatic life. It removes the ammonia from the water by converting it to nitrite with the help of bacteria such as nitrosospira and nitrosomonas that use oxygen and alkalinity in the process. Following that, bacteria like nitrospira and nitrobacter convert the nitrite to nitrate that is considered harmless to aquatic plants and animals when under 250 mg per litre.
  
  

Read more: http://www.ehow.com/about_6666137_ef...#ixzz2gl0p94BK

[bennyc]

I am quite skeptical if ammonia will have a very big effect on plants to the extent of killing it thou.

[Urban Aquaria]

Definitely best to plant very densely from the start, the plants will absorb the released ammonia and nutrients, thats what ADA Aquasoil is actually designed to do, boost plant growth during startup.

With a high plant density/faster growing plants, the tank will tend to cycle faster too, as the ammonia gets used up quicker by the plants, so that the beneficial bacteria has a easier time handling the conversion process.

For heavily planted tank setups with brand new filter and media, expect it to take around 3-4 weeks to complete cycling (in the meantime just focus on plant growth). If you can transfer over media from a cycled mature tank, then can half the time to cycle (or sometimes even faster).

If you have lower plant density or mostly slow growing plants, then do more water changes to help reduce the ammonia levels... or else it'll take much longer to finish cycling.

[bennyc]

For heavily planted tank setups, do we have to do water change of more than 50% for the first few days?

[mukyo]

for low tech, is it really bad to have an air pump blowing 24h?
should i change to switch on the airpump only when lights off?

what about undergravel using airpump? also bad idea?

will be setting up also a 2ft ers. so hopping in this thread

Sent from my CT801 Eyas using Tapatalk

[Urban Aquaria]

For heavily planted tank setups, do we have to do water change of more than 50% for the first few days?

If a tank is started up already densely filled with fast growing plants, then no real need to do water changes daily... the plants would be able to soak up most of the ammonia and nutrients, so it's sufficient to just do water changes weekly.

Most people who do large frequent daily water changes initially are usually running tanks with relatively low plant density and just want to cycle the tank quicker by manually removing the excess ammonia.

for low tech, is it really bad to have an air pump blowing 24h?
should i change to switch on the airpump only when lights off?

what about undergravel using airpump? also bad idea?

will be setting up also a 2ft ers. so hopping in this thread

Depends on your plant requirements... an air pump helps create surface agitation and gas exchange so it's good for oxygenating the water, but it also tends to off-gas Co2, which is already super limited in a low-tech tank.

I guess if you have low-demand plants in the tank then probably not an issue to have an air pump running 24/7, though it's usually better to just schedule it to switch on at night time instead to offset the Co2 released by plants (instead of the day time when plants need to use Co2).

Undergravel filters are usually not recommended for tanks with soil substrate, it tends to break down the soil faster and plant roots get tangled up in them blocking flow.

[fateddee]

Hey guys, Thanks for your input. seems like I manage to get some of the answers.

Thanks for ya help! will be uploading my tank and stuff when i finally get to it and get it done!

[fateddee]

If I plant heavily (which i intend to do) and i have strong Lighting and CO2, then all should be fine. Just need to watch out for Algae.

Any one recommend the Dry start method to HC thou? i saw the thread about using that method for HC and the photos look impressive!
But do you think its better to grown HC using that method?
anyone with experience care to share

[bennyc]

Urban has a good thread on dry start for hc. In my opinion, hc is a very small plant so i believe it is weaker. The purpose of dry start is to allow hc to grow to a significant plant mass. To give some form of buffer to allow melting and regrow during the transition from emerse to submerge.

I have achieved reasonable success using this method. The detail plan on how to do it, please search for urban thread.

[felix_fx2]

imho, should look at more to grow the plants. if plants grow well and fast, you won't worry about algae.

if your looking at hc, mind i recommend a short dsm? flood the tank when you see hc spreading. give lots of co2 to help them.

if you want to fully grow hc to cover, look at raliart thread dsm grow nice almost fully cover.