high and unstable ph problem

[Heuer]

Hi all,

In a CO2-less setup, why do we still have to add baking soda to buffer ph swing? can we just leave it alone.

Any comments on this?

Cheers!

[vinz]

* Nudge Heuer really really hard * Pssst! Read the thread again. We're telling him NOT to raise KH since he is not injecting CO2.

[Heuer]

That is why i am confuse. must have misinterpreted the whole post.

Cheers!

[eriond]

[quote:c64d0a76bc="Heuer"]That is why i am confuse. must have misinterpreted the whole post.

Cheers! [/quote:c64d0a76bc]

don't worry pal, initially i got the wrong impression too with the ph/kh/co2 relation and thot by adjusting kh, i can magically increase the co2 thereby decreasing the ph n buffering it but kena tarok by this people here. but, hey you learn right ? they are nice people actually

[goh]

Hi Eriond,
Not sure what you is your plan in this hobby. If you are an adventurous person (seems to be one) who want to try growing different type of plants, bite the bullet and get a basic CO2 kit, which should cost < $200. Seems like you already invested quite some $$$ already, so no harm lah. This should resolve your PH problem easily without having so much headache.

[balacam]

i have a non co2 setup. this tank is used as a breeding tank. the plants used are java ferns, nana and moss
to get the fish to breed i have to lower the ph.

i am using vinegar (very cheap) to lower the pH. when i change wtaer, my tap water is ph 8 and when i add 5ml of vinegar into a standard red pail of water, the ph drops to 6.

i have checked some ph down conditioner

some specifically say that they contain phosphates (seachem)
sera did not mention anything about phosphate
JBL and API says that theirs don't contain phosphates
I was told that API PH down contain sulphuric acid
but i don't know what is in JBL

as a result i turn to acetic acid (vingear)

[budak]

Hi Goh,

I think it's a good experience for every planted tank hobbyist to have Co2 injected setups. But it's also possible (whether for cost, maintenance, time or experimental reasons) to have lush non-Co2 planted tanks. It can be Walstad style, Tom Barr style or any other method that works.

Just a qualifier.

[wynx]

[quote:b9cc65ba6c="goh"]Hi Eriond,
Not sure what you is your plan in this hobby. If you are an adventurous person (seems to be one) who want to try growing different type of plants, bite the bullet and get a basic CO2 kit, which should cost < $200. Seems like you already invested quite some $$$ already, so no harm lah. This should resolve your PH problem easily without having so much headache.[/quote:b9cc65ba6c]

Hi Goh...


Well said. Bite the bullet and get a co2 set up. However do bear in mind that having CO2 is still not enough, you need to ensure you have enough buffer to prevent your pH from dipping too much.

For this case, I would suggest using baking soda to keep KH at 3-4 and then adjust the pH to be between 6-7

Another thing, please learn more about the the relationship between KH and pH. LOL


Best Regards

[eriond]

[quote:6b76eddce7="goh"]Hi Eriond,
Not sure what you is your plan in this hobby. If you are an adventurous person (seems to be one) who want to try growing different type of plants, bite the bullet and get a basic CO2 kit, which should cost < $200. Seems like you already invested quite some $$$ already, so no harm lah. This should resolve your PH problem easily without having so much headache.[/quote:6b76eddce7]

hi goh,
i oredi have an established plant tank with co2 for 2 yrs, as for this current tank am trying out without co2 n haven't spent any $$$ yet lah only a small $, most item are recycled from somewhere. tks for ur advice though

[eriond]

[quote:5a0658df6b="balacam"]i have a non co2 setup. this tank is used as a breeding tank. the plants used are java ferns, nana and moss
to get the fish to breed i have to lower the ph.

i am using vinegar (very cheap) to lower the pH. when i change wtaer, my tap water is ph 8 and when i add 5ml of vinegar into a standard red pail of water, the ph drops to 6.

i have checked some ph down conditioner

some specifically say that they contain phosphates (seachem)
sera did not mention anything about phosphate
JBL and API says that theirs don't contain phosphates
I was told that API PH down contain sulphuric acid
but i don't know what is in JBL

as a result i turn to acetic acid (vingear)[/quote:5a0658df6b]

hi belacam,
it seems like u have the same problem with me on the source tap water, my tap ph is really high too. i have some questions to ask, does vinegar stabilise ur ph at ur achieved lower level ? what kh reading are u getting when using vinegar ? is it any normal vinegar from provision shop ? how much vinegar to how many parts of water ?

[eriond]

[quote:f3e7a52dda="budak"]haha, don't mind vinz, he's often cranky when it comes to newbies


With a non-CO2 tank, you need not bother with liquid fert at all... ditto the CaCO3 tablets. Just rely on your base fert. Only thing is to keep changing water until the KH is brought sufficiently low (3-4) such as that buffering capacity is minimised.

For lighting, keep it if you like, but except for the Alteranthera, your plants should be fine with just 36Wx2. But why are you using just an internal filter for a 4 ft tank, unless your bioload is very very low?

If you are serious about non-CO2 tanks, Diana Walstad's book (do a search) is a must-read. Suffice to say, the regime goes like this: don't dose fert, minimise water changes (every few months), don't overcrowd, overfeed slightly and keep lighting moderate. It works.[/quote:f3e7a52dda]

hi budak,
now after a couple of quick water change, my kh is 4 which is almost that of my tap water but ph is still at 7.6 Do i continue to change water or just leave it ?

[vinz]

If your tap water is at 4dKH, then more water changes will not bring your tank KH lower than that.

If there is no good reason for you to aim for any particular pH, then leave it be. If you really want to, you can use ketapang leaves or get a bottle of Blackwater. Ketapang and most blackwater solutions will stain your water. However, TR7 by Dennerle is colourless. It's an expensive brand though.

[Heuer]

[quote:4d73736965="eriond"][quote:4d73736965="Heuer"]That is why i am confuse. must have misinterpreted the whole post.

Cheers! [/quote:4d73736965]

don't worry pal, initially i got the wrong impression too with the ph/kh/co2 relation and thot by adjusting kh, i can magically increase the co2 thereby decreasing the ph n buffering it but kena tarok by this people here. but, hey you learn right ? they are nice people actually [/quote:4d73736965]


no problem at all!! that is why i am still lurking here after more than a year! definitely gain alot from this forum and the wonderful people here.

cheers!