Help!! hair algae bloom.

[kelloggs]

Hi all, i need help from the experts here. My tank has encountered massive hair aglae bloom since 3 days ago. The hair aglae has created a lawn on top of my hair grass and erect moss!

The description of my tank is as follows:

Tank Dimensions (LxWxH): 4 ft x 1.5ft (w) x 2ft (H)
Lighting Intensity(No of Watts) : 288 watt
Type of Lighting (FL/PL/MH) : PL- 36w x 8
No. of Hours your light is on: 10 hrs
CO2 Injection Rate (bps) : 2 bps (based on Chuck's table- 15 ppm)
Type of CO2 (DIY/Liquid/Tank) : Tank
Method of Injection (e.g. Diffusor/Reactor): diffuser
Substrate Used : Lapis
How Thick is your base fert : 1cm (JBL)
How thick is your gravel : 8 cm
Liquid Fertilizers Used : Aqua LushGro
Frequency of fertilization : Once a week after water change, 3 caps
Tank Temperature : 26 - 27 degree celcius
Type of Filter (overhead/internal/canister) :Eheim Pro II 2028 (low rate)
Filter media used : Biohome, ehfisubtrate, Eheim pads, Seacheam purigen
How long has your tank been set up : 2 months


Chemical Properties (Fill what you can)
---------------------------------------

Carbonate Hardness (kh): 3 d
Total Hardness (gH): unknown
PH : 6.6
NH4 (ppm): 0
NO2 (ppm): unknown
NO3 (ppm): 0 ml/L
PO4 (ppm): 0 ml/L
Fe (ppm): unknown

Bioload (Your Fish and Plants) - 9 altums and 30 cardinals and 6 ottos
------------------------------

State what fishes and plants you have to the best of your ability

Describe your problem :hair alage lawning on hairgrass, erect moss and helferi


I torn down my 4ft tank and set up the current 4ft ft two months ago. I have not experienced aglae attack as serious as this time. Mostly, abit of spot green algae on glass and wiped out during water change. I read this forum and learnt alot. So far, nothing really bad happened until 3 days ago.

About 2 weeks ago, i noticed hair algae growing on the side of helferi and i seriously thought i might fix it with fertiliser regime reduced. I have been using Dr Mallick's LushGro-Aqua all this while. 3 caps every water change. Also i added in Magnesium sulphate and potassium sulphate, calcuim bicarbonate 1 tablet as buffer and Calcium nitrate 2 caps.

About 2 weeks ago, on top of the above, i added one cap of JBL Ferro liquid fertiliser to increase Fe and the problem began. I wonder whether is the new fertiliser that created the havoc. But IMO one cap of JBL seems to be conservative comparable to recommended dose.

Last saturday, after water change, i reduced Lushgro to 1 cap, no calcium nitrate and other elements. But with one cap of JBL Ferro

I read about Redfield ratio on the net and realised that my mistake may be lacking of nitrate. It has been 0 ppm since i started planted tank. And i have lots of duckweeds floating. Initially I used API No3 test kit. To double check, i just bought a Sera No3 kit and the No3 reading was also zero. Maybe it is because i planted heavily and nitrate is consumed fast.

Also, i bought a Po4 kit yesterday and the reading was zero.

According to Redfield ratio, at least there should be a ratio of 10-16 No3 : 1 phospate. I rushed to Eco and got Dr Mallick's Potassium dehydrated Nitrate and Potassium Phospate. But i am not quite afraid to dose these two. Too much of nitrate will kill my altums and too much of Po4 can cause irreparable damage.

One strange thing is that the floating frogbits have grown their roots too long, about 15 cm for some. Any thought on this? The frogbits in the other tanks are not like that. I believe maybe they are in search of nutrient and thats why they grow too long?? just my thought. But frankly speaking, they are too ugly with very long roots hanging above.

By the way, is 1 ppm roughly 1 mg/l?? With the KNO3 and KH2PO4 in hand, how do i dose it? My tank is 270 litre of water after taking into account of sand and top layer. I guess i shouldn't raise the NO3 to 10ppm at one go, if not my critters will die.. Any recommendation for dosage?? Do you guys mix the dry compound in grammes with water and pour into tank or prepared a stock solution in contain

[bclee]

I assume the algae you refering to are BBA.

It appear that you have NO3 deficiency problem. There should not be any problem if you raise NO3 level straight away to 10ppm. Try to adjust your dosage of KNO3 to maintain NO3 level at 5~10ppm.

1ppm = 1mg/L

BC

[kelloggs]

Thanks BC, for your prompt reply.

The more i look at the algae, the more it looks like Hair, Fuzz or beard on this web: http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9

Yes. I will be trying out KNO3 and KH2PO4. I am now trying to figure out how to dose and how much to dose. I had read somewhere about how many table spoons to mix to produce 10ppm of KNO3 and 1ppm of KH2PO4. Can anyone enlighten me??

[vinz]

The first 2 planted tank articles here... the 2nd is an online dosage calculator. The 1st is a Windows version you can download and install.

I like the Windows version because it can calculate dry doses.

Otherwise you can do what I do:
- Mix 1 tablespoon of KNO3 into 250ml of water to make a stock dosing solution.
- 1ml of this solution added to 40l (10 US gallons) of water will raise approximately 1ppm of NO3.

The formula for KH2PO4 stock dosing solution is the same. Coincidentally, 1ml of this solution added to 40l (10 US gallons) of water will also raise approximately 1ppm of PO4.

[PeterGwee]

CO2, CO2 and more CO2 (30-35ppm is good..make sure its stable and monitor the plants.). You do not have enough. Until you get the CO2 right, you do not need to worry much about the nutrients. The uptake is not going to be significant at all except for the frogbits which has all the CO2 it needs from the atmosphere.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[balacam]

[quote:6dbb0c80e8="PeterGwee"]CO2, CO2 and more CO2 (30-35ppm is good..make sure its stable and monitor the plants.). You do not have enough. Until you get the CO2 right, you do not need to worry much about the nutrients. The uptake is not going to be significant at all except for the frogbits which has all the CO2 it needs from the atmosphere.

Regards
Peter Gwee[/quote:6dbb0c80e8]


i also have hair algae problem but in my case, i feel that it is confusing because at this moment i have co2 at 20ppm. i inject the co2 via the inlet of my canister filter. then the outlet is directly pointing at one of the branches of the driftwood and the branch is growing with algae. i am reluctant to raise it to 30ppm because it seems like the cause of algae is due to the co2 enriched water blowing at the branch.

could you advise whether my case is possible?

[PeterGwee]

[quote:f2da916dc0="balacam"]i also have hair algae problem but in my case, i feel that it is confusing because at this moment i have co2 at 20ppm. i inject the co2 via the inlet of my canister filter. then the outlet is directly pointing at one of the branches of the driftwood and the branch is growing with algae. i am reluctant to raise it to 30ppm because it seems like the cause of algae is due to the co2 enriched water blowing at the branch. [/quote:f2da916dc0]

Balacam, algae is a plant as well...you need to know that. But the fact why they are growing means that your plants are not growing much. Why? Ask yourself? Are you dosing any nutrients? Did something run out? Is your CO2 consistent? Measurement errors? Basically, work down this line if you have issues..light, CO2, N, K, GH, P and micros. Always check and recheck the CO2 if you face issues. Add more when in doubt but do monitor for abnormal critter behaviours.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[Heuer]

i have hair algae problem in my 4ft with 0 or min NO3. After doing KNO3 and up my CO2 to 60ppm (3kh and 6.2ph). the hair algae seems to be under control but some are still there. my yamato will eat them.

Thot the algae are not all gone but is under control now. just up your CO2 and monitor your live stock behaviour. some platy will help to eatup the hair algae. just starve them afew days.

Just my 2 cents.

[overdrive]

Hi Heuer,

I had the same problem in my tank 2 months ago, ran out of NO3(the main cause), but had a PO4 of 0.5mg/l. My Kh is around 2 and pH around 6.6(not enough). Lots of hair algae growing on my riccia. I would seriously recommend that you cut your top part of your hairgrass that is growing with the hair algae, try to remove as much hair algae as possible by hand and dose KNO3, KH2PO4 until you have this readings: NO3=5-10mg/l, PO4=0.3-0.5mg/l. Also, very importantly, increase your CO2 until you get 35mg/l to 40mg/l(I dropped my pH to about 6.2). Make sure this amount is ALWAYS there whenever your lights are on, and make sure the CO2 amount does not fluctuate. The hair algae will slowly soften and then your amano shrimps and SAEs will be able to eat them. Change 50% water everyweek and remove/cut as much hair algae as possible(dead hair algae will remain and needs to be removed mechanically as well anyway). Adding Dennerle's Gold7 will help a lot too. Hope this helps

[balacam]

[quote:2c44f8d41e="PeterGwee"]
Balacam, algae is a plant as well...you need to know that. But the fact why they are growing means that your plants are not growing much. Why? Ask yourself? Are you dosing any nutrients? Did something run out? Is your CO2 consistent? Measurement errors? Basically, work down this line if you have issues..light, CO2, N, K, GH, P and micros. Always check and recheck the CO2 if you face issues. Add more when in doubt but do monitor for abnormal critter behaviours.

Regards
Peter Gwee [/quote:2c44f8d41e]

thanks Peter

although i also have hair algae problem and i am still finding a solution, i believe i can still contribute some advice to kelloggs base on my case.

i believe i dose enough TMG and K but i dose limited NO3 and PO4 so this result in hair algae problem.

p.s. my hair algae has cleared alot just one day after i put in my hungry platy. however you should try to balance the nutrient issue.

[kelloggs]

Thanks to Vincent, Peter, Heuer and other for all the valuable information.

At least now i know what to do this weekend after water change.. add to the correct proportion of KNO3, KH2PO4, increase Co2 and monitor.

It seems that Phosphate is quite difficult to prepare dry due to the mirco amount.

By the way, has anyone tried Redfield ratio to successfully deal with algae outbreak?

Last question is that do i have to clear the algae on the hairgrass and moss while fighting the algae with all the recommendation given by bros here or do i leave the algae alone in hope they will just whither away? the reason i ask this question is that it seems very difficult to pull the algae out unless i sacrify my plants... My algae type is not those bush that is easily pull out. It attaches on the stem of hair grass.

[overdrive]

I know what you mean by saying that its tough to remove the hair algae, but if the hair algae is only growing on the top part of the hair grass then it is recommended to cut the top parts of the hair grass. For my case the last time, I had to throw all the riccia affected by the BBA cuz the riccia just stagnated after the hair algae grew on them. Can't really do much there except to replace the riccia. You can try to leave them there first and but add more SAEs and yamato shrimps. But if you still noticed that the BBA is growing then you have no choice but to mechanically remove them until your plants are growing well again. I'm currently using the Redfield ratio myself (which states that the total nitrogen to phoshorus should be in a ratio of 10:1), actually I'm more like using the Buddy ratio because buddy ratio deals with parameters which we can measure easily (NO3 and PO4 ions). Buddy ratio states that the ratio of NO3 to PO4 ideally should be at 23:1 (eg. 7mg/l NO3 : 0.3mg/l PO4). Its one of the 'weapons' to combat algae so why not use it? So far in my tank the BBA has been reduced dramatically after balancing my nutrients to the Buddy ratio. Introducing a lighting 'siesta' also helps.

[bclee]

Kelloggs, you can "mow" down your affected hairgrass. With good nutrients and CO2, they will grow back in no time.

I find the effect of Redfield ratio very minimal if at all. I have had 1NO3 : 2PO4 without any algae problem. The key is to have healthy growing plants by supply good amt of CO2, macro & micro nutrients.

I find that PO4 level can vary quite widely (IME... 0.5ppm to 30ppm) without causing any algae problem, except when it is in shortage.

Many hobbyist have also found the siesta period in light not to have significant effect.

BC

[PeterGwee]

[quote:ed63530516="overdrive"]I'm currently using the Redfield ratio myself (which states that the total nitrogen to phoshorus should be in a ratio of 10:1), actually I'm more like using the Buddy ratio because buddy ratio deals with parameters which we can measure easily (NO3 and PO4 ions). Buddy ratio states that the ratio of NO3 to PO4 ideally should be at 23:1 (eg. 7mg/l NO3 : 0.3mg/l PO4). Its one of the 'weapons' to combat algae so why not use it? So far in my tank the BBA has been reduced dramatically after balancing my nutrients to the Buddy ratio. Introducing a lighting 'siesta' also helps.[/quote:ed63530516]

Overdrive, plants do not need any "magical" ratios to grow well nor algae knows when a particular ratio is up before blooming. As long as the nutrients are available to the plants and do not fall into the limiting range, the plants should do well and algae won't.

The following explanation by Thomas Barr should clear things up for you pretty good.

[quote:ed63530516="Thomas Barr"]Unless part of the ratio is allowed to become limiting, it does not matter.
Plant matter is 10:1 for FW sumbersed aquatic plants. These figures vary widely depending on species, but this is the best general ball park figure.

The Redfield ratio is based on marine algae.

FW algae range in the 14:1 ratio.

But I can have a tank with 20ppm of NO3 and .2ppm of PO4 and be fine.
That's a 100:1, I can have algae or good plant growth in this range.

If I dose a little PO4 each day or I have less lighting, I can maintain the N : P ratio.

Or, I can have 5 ppm of NO3 and 1 to 2 ppm of PO4, this is commonly done over long time speroids.

N : P ratios do not tell what types of N or P, dissolved organics, NH4 vs NO3, these are uptake issues, not just ratios of Dry weight.

If the plants are grown under no limiting conditions, what tyopes of ratios would they have then?

What is an optimal condition? Fastest growth rates? Or moderate growth with excellent red color?

Natural conditions are not always the best conditions and organisms are quite adaptable.

Ratios can be applied to a natural system but aquariums have the dosing option and the abilty to make the nutrients available even if the ratio is skewed.

You might waste a tad more PO4 or NO3 than you have too, but that's okay, it's cheap.

Regards,
Tom Barr[/quote:ed63530516]

Regards
Peter Gwee

[overdrive]

Yup once your plants are growing, algae won't grow. I recommended that idea because that is what I used when I had BBA problem. It worked for me so I thought I'd share it here. But I guess I basically balanced my nutrients again (I had a 0 NO3 previously) and increased my CO2 to about 35-40mg/l basically concentrated on making my plants to grow and this should have surpressed the BBA growth. Also, I've found out for riccia once they're infested its very hard to get them to grow again even with perfect conditions for them to grow. My weakened riccia seem to always have BBA growing on them eventhough I've made all other nutrients and sufficient CO2 available to them. Has anyone succesfully removed BBA from their existing riccia and then made the riccia grow again?

[PeterGwee]

BBA is often associated with poor or inconsistent CO2 supply (low to high or vice versa). Once the CO2 is corrected, the BBA would stop growing and that is when you have it beaten. If it ain't growing, all you need is a trim. Nutrients itself does not have much bearings on BBA except ammonia which can trigger all sorts of algae as well. Yes, you need nutrients for plants to grow well and that is the long term goal in keeping algae at bay. But correction of nutrients is useless if you have poor CO2 level which is probably the main cause of the bloom in the first place. If the readings seems fine for the CO2 and yet the BBA is growing, you need a review of the kits and add more CO2 slowly till you get the plant growth you should see but monitor critter behaviour though and ensure no CO2 stress on them.

Riccia is a weed..you can take a few non-infected strands and have a large mass by the end of the week if you have good light, high CO2 and nutrients. If you cannot bring it back to life, something is not right in your tank..you need to work on it then. Go down the line for correcting conditions (Light, CO2<critical, NO3, K, GH, PO4 and micros).

Regards
Peter Gwee

[bubuseng]

'm not very experienced but maybe ya should just reduce ya fert dosage and light hours for the moment. It always helps for me to kill hair algae by reducing the lighting hours.

[PeterGwee]

[quote:2c44f1bbc3="bubuseng"]'m not very experienced but maybe ya should just reduce ya fert dosage and light hours for the moment. It always helps for me to kill hair algae by reducing the lighting hours.[/quote:2c44f1bbc3]

Don't focus on the algae...focus on the plants. Reducing nutrients is not the way of doing it. You simply cannot limit algae before you start killing your plants. Reducing the amount of light is better as it will give you more wiggle room for error in terms of CO2 and nutrients. It also does well with high CO2 and nutrients.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[barmby]

Riccia should be easy to grow. In fact much easier than moss as Riccia grow so fast under high CO2 and NPK condition. Bubble and bubble and you will trim and trim. In the end - it kills my enthusiasm..

[kelloggs]

Hi all, Happy National Day and thanks for the advice given last week.

Over the long weekend, i tried out adding more co2, No3, and Po4. The readings are as follows:-

PH- 6.4
KH- 3dkh
No3 -5ppm
Po4 - 0.5 ppm
Co2 - 24ppm

Also added Potassium sulfate and Magnesium plus Aqua Lush.

It was effective and after 20 mins, it was the first time my tank was pearling so much. It was interesting to watch. Most of the colour of the plants had improved tremendously

I mowed the hair glass and trimmed off some of the algaed helferi and moss.

But strangely, i realised that the hair algae on the helferi has increased over the past 2 days after the improvement of fertiliser!!!

I do not want to throw away the helferi as it was quite costly. What shall i do now? Some foreign forum suggest bleaching the plants but i am quite skeptical about this method. It seems impossible to pull off the hair algae from the plant. It looks like "Fuzz" algae from web: http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9

Anyone has any experience with hair algae on helferi and moss? will they just wither off after improvement of nutrient in the tank? I am wondering whether i should introduce algae eating fishes if the hair algae doesnt go off in a week.. currently, i have 8 ottos in a 4ft tank and i believe they are not eating algae.