My very first tank

[cowputer]

Hi bros,
After years of delay, I have decided to stop drooling at my friend's tank and to start a tank on my own without knowing much what lies ahead.
Here goes the specs of my new toy:

Juwel Lido 120 (61x41x5
Juwel Internal Filter
Light: 2x 24W (12 hrs/day 8pm-8am)
Co2: 2bps (10 hrs/day 8pm-8am)
Substrate: 8kg of Gex and 8 kg of gravel
Temperature: around 28C with a fan

Plant: HC, Riccia, Hairgrass as carpet, Java moss on the 'bonsai' and many other plants that I can't remember the names
Stock: 2 Yamato and some RCR shrimps , 1 Otos, 2 Guppies and 8 Tetras.

The tank has been running since 22-Mar (so around 2 weeks plus old now), and I have changed water once (50%), changed the wool filter twice, no other chemicals added yet. The fishes are fed on daily basis.

Casualties so far:

1. Almost all the moss on the bonsai melted due to dehydration as I didn't keep them moist when I spent few hours tying it to the 'bonsai'.
2. Riccia melted and was threw away.
3. Flame moss completely melted and was removed from the tank
4. HC kept being uprooted by the Yamato which kept digging the ground.
5. Hairgrass looks a bit yellowish and doesn't seem to expand.
6. 1 Tetra gave up

As I'm a new kid on the block here, I will appreciate all your comments on whether anything wrong with my current setup or anything that I can do to give my fish and plant a better life

Thanks and hope to hear from you guys soon.
2014-04-08 22.11.49.jpg

[Y3H]

Nice scape. Don't worry about the hairgrass, they should grow back very quickly since you are injecting co2. Mine took about 3 weeks to regrow the dead parts, haven't spread yet; without co2 injection.


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[thebaldingaquarist]

Hi cowputer,
the tank has been started for about 2 weeks, there is no need to change the filter wool unless its clogged. is the wool the only thing in the filter? if it is, then you should not change the wool at all. have a read about aquarium cycling, will help you (like it helped me) alot.

the plant that looks like an umbrella, is not really an aquatic plant. i have seen them grow in aquariums where they are close to the water surface. in their natural habitat they live close to banks and are occasionally above/under water due to lowering/rising of tides. so if you see that they are not doing well, can probably remove them or relocate them.

hair grass takes time to accustom themselves, once accustomed (and they survive the period), they will spread. mine took about a month to get their root system right.

for CO2, you might want to shift the timing to 7am to 7pm ( i assume typo on the timing you wrote.. 8 pm to 8am?) . this is because when the lights come in, the photosynthesis will start within minutes, it may not be full blown activation but it will start.. once it starts, it will deplete the CO2 in the water quickly. so start the CO2 diffusion earlier, to ensure the Co2 is there when photosynthesis begins.

lighting period is too long. normally plants in nature receive 10 hours of "usable" light, depending on the natural environment that it stays in. for most aquatic plants, since its under water, the "usable" lighting starts and ends in about 6-10 hours. after 10 hours, the plants biological activity decreases. Algae on the other hand, is active so as long as there is light and nutrients. so the additional 2 - 4 hours everyday is for algae only.
i recommend to shorten the lighting hours to 8 hours everyday.

happy planting!

[cowputer]

Thanks guys,
@Y3H: how's the growth of hairgrass w/o CO2 injection? I heard it's quite a hardy plant but don't know that it can survive w/o CO2 injection.
@balding: thanks for your very detailed advices. Here are my responses to some of your questions:
1) Lighting and CO2:
Currently, I switched the light and CO2 at the same time for 10 hours from 8pm to 6am. So your advice is that I should start the CO2 earlier?
Does it make a difference if I switch them on in day time e.g. 8am to 6pm or night time e.g. 8pm to 6am?
I'm using a fan to cool down the water, do you think the fan will cause surface agitation that would dilute the CO2 concentration?

2) Filter: The filter that I'm using consists of a few layers of sponges e.g. Nitrate, Carbon, and wool. I only change the wool because it is very dirty.

3) Plant: Yes, I learn that there are some non-aquatic plants in my tank.I will remove them later if they give up.
Do you have experience in growing Riccia? I tied them into a mesh and left it rest on the gravel. However, it melted within a week? I heard it's pretty easy plant but I'm not sure why it couldn't make it in my tank

Many thanks for your help.

[thebaldingaquarist]

Thanks guys,
@Y3H: how's the growth of hairgrass w/o CO2 injection? I heard it's quite a hardy plant but don't know that it can survive w/o CO2 injection.
@balding: thanks for your very detailed advices. Here are my responses to some of your questions:
1) Lighting and CO2:
Currently, I switched the light and CO2 at the same time for 10 hours from 8pm to 6am. So your advice is that I should start the CO2 earlier?
Does it make a difference if I switch them on in day time e.g. 8am to 6pm or night time e.g. 8pm to 6am?
I'm using a fan to cool down the water, do you think the fan will cause surface agitation that would dilute the CO2 concentration?

2) Filter: The filter that I'm using consists of a few layers of sponges e.g. Nitrate, Carbon, and wool. I only change the wool because it is very dirty.

3) Plant: Yes, I learn that there are some non-aquatic plants in my tank.I will remove them later if they give up.
Do you have experience in growing Riccia? I tied them into a mesh and left it rest on the gravel. However, it melted within a week? I heard it's pretty easy plant but I'm not sure why it couldn't make it in my tank

Many thanks for your help.

yes, you should start the Co2 earlier. how much earlier depends on what diffusion mechanism you use. if its very efficient, probably can start 15-30 mins earlier. if not so efficient, probably an hour before.
you can also end earlier as well since in the last hour of lighting, you can choose to have the plants use up all the remaining CO2 (or so we wish). can choose to stop the Co2 30mins to 1 hour before lights out.
for example lights start from 8 - 6, my Co2 will start 7-5

for surface agitation resulting in CO2 loss. It depends on how "agitated" the water surface is. i normally do not concern myself with the Co2 loss, if i see i need more CO2, i simply increase Co2 dosage. I only worry about it when
1. i am not dosing CO2, so my aim is to preserve the Co2 as much as possible
2. CO2 dosage is irregular, like DIY or a diffusion mechanism that is not consistent, like a solar powered pump connected to a diffuser.

Lights timing, if your tank is receiving natural sunlight directly or is influenced by it, i strongly suggest you time your lighting period around the time of your natural sunlight input.

I have a tank that will get natural sunlight at about 5pm everyday. so i time my lighting to be 2pm to 10pm. with 5pm being the peak (aquarium lighting + sunlight). much like how plants get them in their natural environment (noon being the brightest).

Looking at your filter media, you have carbon. note that carbon filtration removes nutrients like phosphates and other nutrients from the aquarium water, so you might be starving the plants by removing nutrients from the water column. i recommend taking it out once the use for it is over, like if you placed it there to remove toxic metals from the water.

riccia.. to me is a pest. i remove on sight. LOL. once your plants are established, riccia will RACE with them.. after you trim, the riccia to grow around the aquarium. pain in the A$$ for lazy people like me.

a reason that its not doing well in your tank could be the carbon filtration? since riccia takes in nutrients from the water column, the carbon removes them.. so... is the moss doing well? moss and riccia should be similar in the nutrient uptake mechanism, except riccia is alot faster..

[cowputer]

Hi Balding,
Thanks again.
1) Lighting: My tank is sitting at a dark corner in the living room, so essentially doesn't receive any natural sunlight. The reason why I want to start the lighting at night is to brighten the living room
I will adopt your advice to kick start the CO2 first and follow by light.

2) Filtration: As the original Carbon and Nitrate filter is rather expensive. I guess I will replace them by wool filter for economic reason when they depleted. Hope it will not do any harm to my tank.

3) Plant: My moss is doing quite OK, so I guess Riccia is less hardy haha.
Do you have any experience with HC and Glosso?
Do I need to sink it root deep into the substrate? I have a layer of gravel on the top of the substrate for some part of the tank.So for those part, no way I can sink the root all the way to the substrate? Would it die out of deprivation from the soil nutrient?

Thanks a bunch a gain.

[thebaldingaquarist]

Hi Balding,
Thanks again.
1) Lighting: My tank is sitting at a dark corner in the living room, so essentially doesn't receive any natural sunlight. The reason why I want to start the lighting at night is to brighten the living room
I will adopt your advice to kick start the CO2 first and follow by light.

2) Filtration: As the original Carbon and Nitrate filter is rather expensive. I guess I will replace them by wool filter for economic reason when they depleted. Hope it will not do any harm to my tank.

3) Plant: My moss is doing quite OK, so I guess Riccia is less hardy haha.
Do you have any experience with HC and Glosso?
Do I need to sink it root deep into the substrate? I have a layer of gravel on the top of the substrate for some part of the tank.So for those part, no way I can sink the root all the way to the substrate? Would it die out of deprivation from the soil nutrient?

Thanks a bunch a gain.

take the following with a pinch of salt.
for your set up, i recommend a thin coarse wool, followed by Ceramic rings or sintered glass rings or biological filtration media. Wash the thin wool if clogged. leave the rings alone unless the water flow is really lousy in the filter.

whether or not java moss is hardier than riccia, i am not very sure. but i know both are considered low requirement plants.

Glosso is also a low requirement plant. HC is not.
Glosso root system are longer than HC's. for this reason, HCs are always uprooted by my shrimps.
I see that your gravel substrate is rather thick. If you intend to try HC, you will want to reduce the thickness of the gravel (to about 5mm.. haha). Glosso should not have an issue with about 2 cm of gravel. I have grown glosso and HC both, but not together in the same tank at the same time.
planting glosso and HC, you only need to make sure the leaves are exposed, can plant as deep as you want.. so as long as the leaves see light.

[cowputer]

Hi Balding,
Awesome, you read my mind before I ask you another question on whether it's normal that my plants keep being uprooted by the busy bodied shrimps especially my yamatos.

Being a newbie, I think I got it wrong at the start by putting too much gravel in the first place. It looks nice to me, however, I never thought that I would prevent the root from accessing the substrate. It is a bit hard for me to remove the gravel now as there are too many plants now. do you have any brilliant solution to this?

Thanks again.

[thebaldingaquarist]

*rubbing my balding head*

how thick is thick? i am looking at the foreground, it seems ok for glosso. not sure about the midground and background.

if i were you, i would leave the substrate alone. there are 2 reasons.
1. even though the plant soil is deeply buried, it does not mean the gravel does not receive the nutrients. there are alot of micro currents in the substrates. due to diffusion, due to air bubbles forming from anaerobic reactions.. or nitrification processes.. etc etc..

2. most aquatic plants have learnt to intake nutrients from the leaves as well as the root systems. some plants take in more efficiently through the roots, some from the leaves. this means that if the roots cannot reach the nutrient rich substrate, the plants will adapt to make use of whatever is in the water column. so i will dose more liberally (coupled with slightly higher water change). there are some examples of otherwise, so my selection of future plants, i will read up more on the plant before buying.

*balding head shining*

[cowputer]

Hi Balding,
Hope you do not shed more hair in an attempt to answer a flood of questions from me
My gravel depth ranges from 2cm to 5cm. For those plant that absorbs the nutrient from the water column, does it mean that I MUST dose liquid fertilizer on regular basis to keep them alive? or there is some other source of nutrient produce by the substrate, micro bacteria or even the fish?

Btw, seem like you have a warehouse of aquatic stuffs in your house? I must come and buy something from you soon so that I can admire your collection of tanks haha

[thebaldingaquarist]

haha.. the hair is shedding anyways... might as well shed it to good use.

for the gravel thats 5cm thick, you will be looking at plants with a deeper root system. i hope the 5 cm gravel is at the background, so you can have some stem plants at the back.

as for the question of whether you need to dose fertilizers.. i would say yes. since you have CO2 injected, having fertilizers as well as a good water change regime would work well with aquatic plants.

bacteria in the gravel (when your tank matures) will help breakdown fish waste and fish food (if you feed). the plants will be able to make use of the nutrients from there on.
but that, by itself is fairly limited. for a low tech, low light, no CO2 injected tank, that amount of nutrients may suffice to keep the plants alive or even grow the plants slowly.

From what i see, you have CO2 injected, lights are low to medium for the tank depth, so my recommendation is to dose fertilizers. Not to rely on the nitrification/denitrification processes in the filter media and substrate.

next up is what to dose..

once you have changed your filter media and removed the carbon, your filter will be producing some nitrates from nitrites and ammonia/ammonium.

if you feed your tank and your tank has fish and livestock, you can look into dosing one of those "all in one" fertilizers. i personally use lushgro aqua macros. it contains macro nutrients (though its rather confusing whether it contains P at the moment.. i am asking the distributor that question now), but it should complement your tank as it is.

micro nutrients can be found in most fish feed.

So with that, you have your macro/micro, CO2 and lights. the last question is whether they are balanced.. this question.. only time will tell.. if algae appears dominant in the tank, it means the balance is off and some tweaking needs to be done.

unfortunately at my own place i only have 1 tank... LOL. my mom's place i have 3..

I recently rescaped my tank and have plants to give/sell.. interested?? haha

[cowputer]

Thanks Balding, I will go and some some lushgro aqua macros from Sea View this weekend to try out. There will be a lot of trial and error for me before I can do a proper tank haha
Actually I'm quite interested in some of your sale plants e.g. Xmas moss and HC however, I stay in Sengkang which is quite far from Woodlands and I have no car. So unlikely I can grab it from you

[wongwong]

Haha same too far for me!!
btw side track i also balding in the past quite badly but now improving but cannot keep long keep dropping when long

[Y3H]

My hairgrass is just getting used to my tank. Those that turned brown are getting little green grass growing. They aren't really spreading yet, but they are definitely longer than day 1.

If anything, the aquarist hobby has taught me the quality of patience. A good choice of hobby for me I guess?


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[cowputer]

@wongwong: only if growing hair is as "easy" as growing hairgrass than you guys will have no problem having a very flourish hairstyle
@y3h: yeah i'm learning to be patient now. my plant is growing too slowly haha everyday I go measure and see now improvement

[Y3H]

Hahah I rather not think about it. Get my hand all itchy, may even worsen situation too!


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[thebaldingaquarist]

Hahah I rather not think about it. Get my hand all itchy, may even worsen situation too!


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hand itchy? start another tank! haha

[Y3H]

Haha cannot...

February I started a 2 feet tank with parents. Within 2 weeks I started my 1.5 feet shrimp tank.

Now planning after exams to rescape the 2 feet tank. Dad got very inspired by Amano. haha!

[thebaldingaquarist]

Haha cannot...

February I started a 2 feet tank with parents. Within 2 weeks I started my 1.5 feet shrimp tank.

Now planning after exams to rescape the 2 feet tank. Dad got very inspired by Amano. haha!

good job.
now bring your dad to fishy business and aim for the 4 ft tank. Go!

[Y3H]

I think he is already considering scrapping our pond for a tank already...

Mum will probably murder him first though...

Feel bad derailing cowputer's thread offtopic. Oopsie ;P