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Thread: Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

  1. #21
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    Re: Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

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    Adding lifestock is a big taboo now... until i can see improvement in PH, not going to "kill" more fish for now... quite sure it’s algae cos it’s on the surface, can’t remove by siphon...

    Just got to be patient for now i suppose...

    Quote Originally Posted by greenie View Post
    I prefer airstone as the smaller bubbles increases greater surface area for the oxygen to dissolve in water. Surface agitation is secondary to oxygenate the tank I suppose as the air bubbles are the source of oxygen. The brown algae you mention is readily eaten by otos. Do introduce them as your clean up crew. Get two should be enough, increase if not improvement or ensure those algae is really brown algae. It could be just mum and gunk, siphon out if so.

  2. #22
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    Re: Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

    Quote Originally Posted by greenie View Post
    I prefer airstone as the smaller bubbles increases greater surface area for the oxygen to dissolve in water. Surface agitation is secondary to oxygenate the tank I suppose as the air bubbles are the source of oxygen. .....
    Hi Greenie,

    Your experience is highly beneficial to learn from. There can be no doubt that bubbles from an air stone are effective in oxygenating the water, especially when the air pump is powerful and the fine bubbles are a beauty to watch. I have used an air stone and love it for that reason.

    But I found that it tends to gradually create a layer of muck at the water surface, which I do not like, as that will form an insulation between the water and atmosphere. I love to have a clean and healthy water surface with little or no surface tension, and that is why I go to great lengths to ensure that. I am sort of addicted to the idea of good surface agitation at all costs... lol...
    Cheers.
    LIFE IS UNBEARABLE WITHOUT A FISH TANK!!!

  3. #23
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    Re: Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberkinetic View Post
    Currently my water surface is definitely not still... as the bubbles tend to travel a bit before bursting..so rippling effect is there too...

    The air outlet is around upper middle height of the tank so it doesn’t stir up much stuff.. the water outflow from the canister filter’s rainbar shoots towards the front of the tank, so there’s definitely a current going around.. but the water is very clear, hardly see any particles floating around...
    If you adjust the rainbar so that the water is nicely pushing the water/air interface, that would be highly desirable from the point of view of oxygenation. May hobbyists do not bother about this much, and they simply let the return water go back to the tank. What is desirable is good oxygenation as opposed to sub-optimal or borderline. Of course many fish can tolerate low oxygen levels, but I'd prefer max oxygenation (saturated) for my fishes.
    LIFE IS UNBEARABLE WITHOUT A FISH TANK!!!

  4. #24
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    Re: Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

    It’s quite hard to do that as i turn on the fan together with my lights... everyday i lose quite a bit of water from evaporation...
    What i do is i top up water until just covering the rainbar... by the time i’m back at night, the water level would be lowered and i can see rippling on the water surface.. if i dun top up water by second day i’ll get splattering of water as the water level will be below the rainbar.

    I just got the Sera PH test kit... almost fainted... PH is a distinct 5.0 on the colour table! I have a smaller 10L tank which i didn’t mention.. it’s housing several white cloud mountains... the PH is an astonishing 4.5!!!! I do water change of 20% on this daily as well... it’s crazy... yet the fish are looking good for close to a year..zero deaths.. fish are looking nice and grew significantly since i bought them..

    It’s driving me nuts...

    Quote Originally Posted by tetrakid View Post
    If you adjust the rainbar so that the water is nicely pushing the water/air interface, that would be highly desirable from the point of view of oxygenation. May hobbyists do not bother about this much, and they simply let the return water go back to the tank. What is desirable is good oxygenation as opposed to sub-optimal or borderline. Of course many fish can tolerate low oxygen levels, but I'd prefer max oxygenation (saturated) for my fishes.

  5. #25
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    Re: Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

    Yo...

    Your still trying to save your tank? Decom and reset...

    Maybe consider getting low tech plants since your work/family life may cause neglect to the tank.

    P. S, how's work... ?

    Sent from GT-N7105 powered by Temasek CM11
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  6. #26
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    Re: Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

    Haha.. trying my very best... but seems futile...

    I think once i decomm... my wife won’t let me reset ... it’s decomm, sell or giveaway...

    I’m not picky about plants already.. just want to keep the fish alive... felt so bad i killed so many already.. i’m gonna give it another 2 weeks, still no improvements, maybe really surrender for good.

    Work’s ok, could be better.. haha... hope you are doing fine yeah...





    Quote Originally Posted by felix_fx2 View Post
    Yo...

    Your still trying to save your tank? Decom and reset...

    Maybe consider getting low tech plants since your work/family life may cause neglect to the tank.

    P. S, how's work... ?

    Sent from GT-N7105 powered by Temasek CM11

  7. #27
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    Re: Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

    Ok, do it like how I do my outside tanks... Decom and comm same day...

    But prepare upfront... And standby some livestock die.. 10~30% mortality...

    Sent from GT-N7105 powered by Temasek CM11
    Learning the hardway, not the highway.
    Photo Blog - impervious-endeavors.blogspot.com

    Semi-Active currently
    "if he cant be bothered to take the time to write his question properly, why should I take the time to answer him."

  8. #28
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    Re: Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

    I actually did a PH test right after i did 20% water change on both tanks... the PH went up by 0.5 on both tanks ... going to test again tonorrow..

  9. #29
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    Re: Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

    Plan plan first... :) you think really no hope?

    Quote Originally Posted by felix_fx2 View Post
    Ok, do it like how I do my outside tanks... Decom and comm same day...

    But prepare upfront... And standby some livestock die.. 10~30% mortality...

    Sent from GT-N7105 powered by Temasek CM11

  10. #30
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    Re: Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

    Take it easy, and try to enjoy the process. I am sure your tanks will all recover soon. Do try to bring down the nitrate. Super high nitrate will make your fish head stand, and have loads of health issue.
    My fish friends --------------------------------
    1 goldfish tank
    1 discus tank

  11. #31
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    Re: Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

    Not sure what else i can do... hehe..

    PH this morning and now, showing 4.5... amazing .. it goes from 5 to 5.5 after last night’s water change and overnight down to 4.5

    I’m wondering whether even with all those biological media i had, it might not be cycled with the bacteria colonies since such low PH probably killed them.

    Reason for the low ammonia, nitrite are probably my frequent water changes..

    Actually i’m also relooking into my situation.. why am i making myself so stressed up... if the current inhabitants are doing fine, i should just leave it..just have to accept no new lifestock until this generation passes on and i ctrl-alt-del on the tank. :)


    Quote Originally Posted by sthh View Post
    Take it easy, and try to enjoy the process. I am sure your tanks will all recover soon. Do try to bring down the nitrate. Super high nitrate will make your fish head stand, and have loads of health issue.

  12. #32
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    Re: Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

    I missed my regular water change yesterday and did a PH test prior to changing it a while ago...
    Interesting PH... i was expecting the low readings again but it actually gave a 5.5!
    Strange... decided not to change water and test it again tomorrow...

  13. #33
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    Re: Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

    PH have maintained at 5.5 for the past 3 days... I changed the water nonetheless...

    However I noticed there's a lot of white particles that comes out from the mesh bag of coral chips when the water is disturbed during the change. I am assuming it is from the chemical reaction between the acidic water and the coral chips...

    It does go away after a short while, presumably all sucked into my canister filter and lodged inside the filter wool.

    Is this common? Wonder if it is better to put the coral chips into a small plastic container and just keep it in one corner. So as to keep all these particles contained in one place. I assume as long as the water is acidic, the chemical reaction should continue, although without putting the coral chips in a fast water flow area, it's probably slower to react and buffer the PH.

  14. #34
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    Re: Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

    If it is really old tank syndrome and you have a sensitive wife like me. i recommend that you
    1. get lots of hornworts and frogbits, fill up 1/2 the tank if you can
    2. do daily water change of 10%
    3. remove the coral chips.
    4. after ammonia is zero, wash part of your media every 3 days until all your media is washed. this is to pseudo reset the media.

    your objective is to get the water conditions right. if after 2 weeks you still have ammonia and acidic water, then its time to remove the substrate...
    I am balding but i am still young!

  15. #35
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    Re: Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

    Hi there,

    thanks for your advice.

    1) I have hornsworts, in a row, covering the length of the tank. Quite a fair bit. They were doing pretty well initially but I realized they are browning off recently... only the new shoots at the top are green. Frogbits I'm a little hesitant to get as I've a small tank, they might cover the light meant for the tank. Thus I have not gotten them yet.
    2) I've done 10-15% water change for more than a month. I just switched to 20% in the last week.
    3) The coral chips are a new addition to buffer the PH from going too low... I had test results of PH 4.5 several times so I'm really worried about the low PH. Any reasons why I should remove the coral chips?
    4) Let me test this tonight. I stopped testing for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate for a while... previously it was showing close to zero ammonia and nitrite, but nitrate is off the charts(even with the daily water change of 10-15%).

    Somehow I get the feeling I can't avoid not playing around with the substrate soon. Sigh...

    Quote Originally Posted by thebaldingaquarist View Post
    If it is really old tank syndrome and you have a sensitive wife like me. i recommend that you
    1. get lots of hornworts and frogbits, fill up 1/2 the tank if you can
    2. do daily water change of 10%
    3. remove the coral chips.
    4. after ammonia is zero, wash part of your media every 3 days until all your media is washed. this is to pseudo reset the media.

    your objective is to get the water conditions right. if after 2 weeks you still have ammonia and acidic water, then its time to remove the substrate...

  16. #36
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    Re: Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

    Do not worry about the PH as long as it is stable. The coral chips will buffer your PH. Those white colour stuff are small breakaway pieces from the coral chips. Do not remove your coral chip as you may risk another PH crash which will kill lots of fishes again.

    Most importantly, you need to bring down your nitrate level. It is way too high. Such high nitrate is very unhealthy for any fauna. Only way to do that is water change and more water change, less feeding.
    My fish friends --------------------------------
    1 goldfish tank
    1 discus tank

  17. #37
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    Re: Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

    for old tank syndrome affected tanks, the ecology and balance of the aquarium is skewered towards a small subset of bacterial processes. What i mean to say is in a balanced aquarium, some bacteria produces ammonia and acid, some other bacteria will take the ammonia and convert it to nitrates, some other bacteria takes the acid and makes precipitates out of other metal oxides and stuff. simply put, at the end of the day, the plants takes all of the end product, be it ammonium, nitrites or nitrates and all the rest of the nutrients to grow or respire or photosynthesize.

    in an old tank, this balance is thrown off course, be it too much, or too little of certain elements.
    the easiest solution is to reset the tank.
    the other option is to slowly back track. my recommendation in the above reply is to slowly backtrack.

    start by slowly introducing a water column that is balanced and clear of as much dissolved solids as possible. we need to do this slowly as not to affect the fauna and flora that is existing in the tank. that is to say, if you do a 100% water change now, the fauna may end up in shock and not survive.. removal of elements in the water column will do 2 things.
    1. recalibrate the substrate and media slowly by drawing out elements that throwing off the balanced set of bacterial processes
    2. slowly adjusting the fauna and flora back to ideal state

    then once the water state is stable, replace/clean parts of the aquarium that contain the bacterial processes in the tank. remember, to do it in parts for the same reason above. in an aquarium there are 3 places that contain bacteria colonies large enough to influence the water quality.
    1. substrate / gravel
    2. filter media
    3. all other tank surfaces.

    I recommended to start with the media. if it does not help, then its time to reset the substrate. number 3 is normally way smaller in ratio compared to the first 2.

    Why did i recommend to remove the chips? its because of the principle above, i am aiming to remove as much elements from the water as possible, slowly. if the flora is surviving in the tank with high nitrates and low PH, adding chips now will help buffer the PH from flying up and down, in that aspect i agree with what bro sthh mentioned.


    the keyword here is slowly. all the above have to be done in increments and slowly, which requires mountains of patience.

    last note.. hornworts take in both CO2 and carbonates as its carbon source (iirc). so having large amounts of hornworts might just absorb the carbonates meant to increase the KH.

    and also, take my recommendation above with a pinch of salt. its a slow process. one that requires work every day.

    Of course, the best course of action if its me, is to treat my wife to a nice dinner and tell her i need to reset the tank.

    PS. i typed this response 3 times. first 2 times, the browser hung. so this third time i skipped alot of details.
    I am balding but i am still young!

  18. #38
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    Re: Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

    Finally managed to upload a photo of the current tank:


    Found one alien creature while I was gazing at the Seachem De-nitrate I laid at the front of the tank... it's white and almost went unseen...hidden among the De-nitrate media...

    Anyone knows what is it? Think i am gonna kill it with my long tongs... not taking chances. It's not moved for the past 2 hours... probably because the rummynose are super active after I turned on the lights and did my water change.

    Tank PH is 5.5PH but after 20% water change, it goes up to 6. At least it's consistently 5.5 for the past couple of days prior to water change.

    My plants which started turning brown have begun sprouting new green shoots again the past few days. I wonder if it's the first of more good things to happen. Only things to have changed recently are the addition of the coral chips, 50grams at a time/day, standing at 200grams in total now as well as increasing water change from 10-15% daily up to 20% daily.

    Everything else remained constant though.

  19. #39
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    Re: Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

    PH quite stable. I'll probably keep the coral chips since them seemed to work in bringing the PH up. Not keen to increase anymore though... will monitor for a while to come.

    I must admit i did not test for the nitrate for a while, it's really troublesome to keep shaking the test tube and the test chemical... I really like the Sera PH test kit, big test tube, easy to hold and wash. The API test tubes are small and hard to handle with my fat fingers.

    Will test the nitrate tomorrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by sthh View Post
    Do not worry about the PH as long as it is stable. The coral chips will buffer your PH. Those white colour stuff are small breakaway pieces from the coral chips. Do not remove your coral chip as you may risk another PH crash which will kill lots of fishes again.

    Most importantly, you need to bring down your nitrate level. It is way too high. Such high nitrate is very unhealthy for any fauna. Only way to do that is water change and more water change, less feeding.

  20. #40
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    Re: Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

    Thanks for retyping 3 times! Appreciate your help!

    I have been doing regular water changes for more than 1.5 months... 10-15% daily until the past week or so when I bump it up to 20% daily. Not sure if it's the coral chips or the 5% increase in daily water change,but seems my PH increased to 5.5 and remaining quite constant for the past few days.

    I've changed the filter wool in my canister filter and rinsed the media in old tank water I think 2-3weeks back? So far, have not gone to touch it again.

    Told my wife about the "reset" quite a while ago... reaction wasn't good.. maybe i didn't do it over a nice dinner... "reset" in her definition means everything dump into the rubbish chute. Think she can't wait to have me get rid of the tanks.. haha...

    Quote Originally Posted by thebaldingaquarist View Post
    for old tank syndrome affected tanks, the ecology and balance of the aquarium is skewered towards a small subset of bacterial processes. What i mean to say is in a balanced aquarium, some bacteria produces ammonia and acid, some other bacteria will take the ammonia and convert it to nitrates, some other bacteria takes the acid and makes precipitates out of other metal oxides and stuff. simply put, at the end of the day, the plants takes all of the end product, be it ammonium, nitrites or nitrates and all the rest of the nutrients to grow or respire or photosynthesize.

    in an old tank, this balance is thrown off course, be it too much, or too little of certain elements.
    the easiest solution is to reset the tank.
    the other option is to slowly back track. my recommendation in the above reply is to slowly backtrack.

    start by slowly introducing a water column that is balanced and clear of as much dissolved solids as possible. we need to do this slowly as not to affect the fauna and flora that is existing in the tank. that is to say, if you do a 100% water change now, the fauna may end up in shock and not survive.. removal of elements in the water column will do 2 things.
    1. recalibrate the substrate and media slowly by drawing out elements that throwing off the balanced set of bacterial processes
    2. slowly adjusting the fauna and flora back to ideal state

    then once the water state is stable, replace/clean parts of the aquarium that contain the bacterial processes in the tank. remember, to do it in parts for the same reason above. in an aquarium there are 3 places that contain bacteria colonies large enough to influence the water quality.
    1. substrate / gravel
    2. filter media
    3. all other tank surfaces.

    I recommended to start with the media. if it does not help, then its time to reset the substrate. number 3 is normally way smaller in ratio compared to the first 2.

    Why did i recommend to remove the chips? its because of the principle above, i am aiming to remove as much elements from the water as possible, slowly. if the flora is surviving in the tank with high nitrates and low PH, adding chips now will help buffer the PH from flying up and down, in that aspect i agree with what bro sthh mentioned.


    the keyword here is slowly. all the above have to be done in increments and slowly, which requires mountains of patience.

    last note.. hornworts take in both CO2 and carbonates as its carbon source (iirc). so having large amounts of hornworts might just absorb the carbonates meant to increase the KH.

    and also, take my recommendation above with a pinch of salt. its a slow process. one that requires work every day.

    Of course, the best course of action if its me, is to treat my wife to a nice dinner and tell her i need to reset the tank.

    PS. i typed this response 3 times. first 2 times, the browser hung. so this third time i skipped alot of details.

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