Fish dying and I am clueless what to do next

[Cyberkinetic]

That alien creature seems to look like a damselfly nymph... -_-"

[tetrakid]

Finally managed to upload a photo of the current tank:

This must be the best photo I have seen in this forum.... clap, clap, clap... Like...

As a matter of interest, what lens and mode did you use to take that picture?

[sthh]

You got a damselfly nymph in your tank. Ferocious predator of fishes and shrimp. If you find one, there are probably more hiding. Probably some plants you bought recently has eggs in them. Did any fish disappear without a trace recently?

[Cyberkinetic]

Haha.. it's a 2yr old Fuji X10, everything auto.. the bug I shot with "super macro" mode.

This must be the best photo I have seen in this forum.... clap, clap, clap... Like...

As a matter of interest, what lens and mode did you use to take that picture?

[Cyberkinetic]

Shucks...

My fish are only the rummynose tetras.. several times the size of the nymph... so far no deaths.

Hiaz... on top of the current issues now i have to take care of this stupid nymph/nymphs...

You got a damselfly nymph in your tank. Ferocious predator of fishes and shrimp. If you find one, there are probably more hiding. Probably some plants you bought recently has eggs in them. Did any fish disappear without a trace recently?

[Cyberkinetic]

Quick update, I've been doing 20% water change on alternate days, PH seems to be stabilized at PH 6.0 even on the 2nd day prior to the water change.

Starting to get some green algae issue, basically strands dangling at the tips of the plants which is in the water flow path. Not too severe yet, so just snip off the tips of my plants about 1cm each.

Still didn't find time to do the full suite of tests for ammonia/nitrite and nitrate... as I usually do water change late at night when everyone's asleep so as not to incur the wrath of the missus. lol...

Also removed the stems from the front of the tank as quite a lot of the lower leaves are rotting badly. Managed to salvage 10 over of them and planted them directly into the substrate in the same area.

No sign of the damned damselfly nymph still... secretly hoping it gets gobbled up by the tetras when they are hungry... *fingers crossed*

[aquarius]

I'm curious why you didn't use sodium bicarbonate to increase the KH which will also help to increase and stabilise the PH? I feel that using sodium bicarbonate would have been a better approach.

[tetrakid]

Shucks...

My fish are only the rummynose tetras.. several times the size of the nymph... so far no deaths....

For foreign creatures do not underestimate their size. Hydras come to mind. Hydras are extremely tiny but they kill big fish. That is why I stopped feeding boons (daphnia) to my fish, as they can contain some hydras too. I had liked boons, but is put off by hydras. They can kill a healthy fish slowly, eating at their internal organs day by day. Very disgusting things, that's why I hate hydras extremely. Now I must try microworms, but I have no experience with them yet.

[tetrakid]

I'm curious why you didn't use sodium bicarbonate to increase the KH which will also help to increase and stabilise the PH? I feel that using sodium bicarbonate would have been a better approach.

How much to use? Can we use the stale bicarb which has been used in the fridge (for odour absorption) for 3 months?

[Cyberkinetic]

Hi aquarius,

I've read about using the sodium bicarbonate method to increase/stabilize the PH, however I was very concerned about how much to put and the chemical reaction seems very rapid and I was worried the sudden increase in PH will affect my tetras.

The coral chips seems to be a more gradual and slow process to increase the PH thus I decided on it, and even then I added them gradually over a week, 50grams each time(which is like maybe 10-15 small pieces each time). It took quite a while for the PH to climb from 4.5 to 6.5, more than 2 weeks.

I've been doing 20% water changes almost daily due to the high nitrate level, that also was factored in as another consideration of how should i be dosing the sodium bicarbonate as well.

Finally my nitrate level dropped considerably when I tested the water yesterday, weeks after I did my water changes. It was always off the chart RED and finally I see a decrease and it seems to be between 10-20ppm now. Ammonia and Nitrite are as usual zero. PH seems to be between a 6.4 - 6.6. On the Sera test kit, it was showing a 6.5.


PH was a 6.5 as well(before water change) and I also got to test GH and KH. GH increased from zero to 5 or 6 and KH still zero. I expected the GH to increase, but was surprised the KH was zero though. Then I went to test my tap water for KH and it came up I think 1 or at most 2. That probably explains why even when I do frequent water changes, the KH didn't increase at all. Wonder if I should start looking at sodium bicarbonate to increase the KH but I'm also concerned if my PH will continue to increase or not? I think 6.5 is quite decent for my rummynose since I read they prefer slight acidic water.

I've now have a green hair algae problem... not a big problem, but starting to be one as it is now on the tips of most of my plants. I'd snip off the tips of the plants and the algae will regrow 2-3cm within 2 days or so. Irritating.

Stopped dosing Seachem flourish, but continuing the Excel daily. As most of my plants are only having the top 2-3cm that are green and the rest turning brown and melting away, I'm thinking if I should just remove all of them and swap for new plants. Since they probably had done their job to clean up my water and sacrificing in the process. The new plants i get "SHOULD" survive properly now since the water condition is definitely improving. But probably hang on a while as I tackle the algae issue. Actually if I replace the plants now, that seems to be a shortcut to get the algae out of the tank as well.

I'm curious why you didn't use sodium bicarbonate to increase the KH which will also help to increase and stabilise the PH? I feel that using sodium bicarbonate would have been a better approach.

[Cyberkinetic]

Hi tetrakid,

no sign of the damn damselfly nymph even though I tried to look for it on so many occasions... Even considering removing all the plants so that it's easier to comb through the tank. It's practically impossible to find it now.

Been counting my fish as well, so far all accounted for. I think the moment I lose 1 fish, it'll be an alarm call to do the drastic measure of hunting it down.

For foreign creatures do not underestimate their size. Hydras come to mind. Hydras are extremely tiny but they kill big fish. That is why I stopped feeding boons (daphnia) to my fish, as they can contain some hydras too. I had liked boons, but is put off by hydras. They can kill a healthy fish slowly, eating at their internal organs day by day. Very disgusting things, that's why I hate hydras extremely. Now I must try microworms, but I have no experience with them yet.

[IrvineChen]

Attachment 40709
Hi Guys,

Could help me verify the above is wat creature? Damn..... Quite several of them in my substrate, and even appear crawling out and snatching Bloodworm with my shrimp... Damn....

[aquarius]

How much to use? Can we use the stale bicarb which has been used in the fridge (for odour absorption) for 3 months?

1/2 teaspoon per 100 Liters raises the KH by about 1 dKH. I teaspoon = 5ml

I'm not sure whether you can recycle stale bicarbonate a not. If you have less than 100L of water in the tank, just mix the powder into a mineral water bottle and pour a little each day into the tank.

[Cyberkinetic]

Kept up with my 20% water changes till now and changed all the plants in my tank which were losing the battle with the green hair algae with bunches of cheap elodea... no sign of the damselfly nymph when I replaced all the plants as well even though I did a very thorough search with my torchlight. Fingers crossed it was trapped in the plants which I had threw away.

PH hovering around 6 - 6.5 and other parameters also seemingly stable (nitrate is a orangey 10-20ppm grade all the time).

Just when I thought everything is good, the elodea started melting away 2 days after I put them in... the green is gradually fading away and turning grey/transparent. sigh...

I was careful and did not put in any Excel since I'm away that it does affect certain plants and elodea was mentioned in some of those readings.

And even though I threw away the algae infested plants, they are now appearing ... no on the plants, but on the bed of De-nitrate which I had placed at the front of the tank as well as on the mesh bag which I kept my coral chips. x10

Wonder at times why am I still subjecting myself to all these unnecessary stress.

Hi aquarius,

I've read about using the sodium bicarbonate method to increase/stabilize the PH, however I was very concerned about how much to put and the chemical reaction seems very rapid and I was worried the sudden increase in PH will affect my tetras.

The coral chips seems to be a more gradual and slow process to increase the PH thus I decided on it, and even then I added them gradually over a week, 50grams each time(which is like maybe 10-15 small pieces each time). It took quite a while for the PH to climb from 4.5 to 6.5, more than 2 weeks.

I've been doing 20% water changes almost daily due to the high nitrate level, that also was factored in as another consideration of how should i be dosing the sodium bicarbonate as well.

Finally my nitrate level dropped considerably when I tested the water yesterday, weeks after I did my water changes. It was always off the chart RED and finally I see a decrease and it seems to be between 10-20ppm now. Ammonia and Nitrite are as usual zero. PH seems to be between a 6.4 - 6.6. On the Sera test kit, it was showing a 6.5.


PH was a 6.5 as well(before water change) and I also got to test GH and KH. GH increased from zero to 5 or 6 and KH still zero. I expected the GH to increase, but was surprised the KH was zero though. Then I went to test my tap water for KH and it came up I think 1 or at most 2. That probably explains why even when I do frequent water changes, the KH didn't increase at all. Wonder if I should start looking at sodium bicarbonate to increase the KH but I'm also concerned if my PH will continue to increase or not? I think 6.5 is quite decent for my rummynose since I read they prefer slight acidic water.

I've now have a green hair algae problem... not a big problem, but starting to be one as it is now on the tips of most of my plants. I'd snip off the tips of the plants and the algae will regrow 2-3cm within 2 days or so. Irritating.

Stopped dosing Seachem flourish, but continuing the Excel daily. As most of my plants are only having the top 2-3cm that are green and the rest turning brown and melting away, I'm thinking if I should just remove all of them and swap for new plants. Since they probably had done their job to clean up my water and sacrificing in the process. The new plants i get "SHOULD" survive properly now since the water condition is definitely improving. But probably hang on a while as I tackle the algae issue. Actually if I replace the plants now, that seems to be a shortcut to get the algae out of the tank as well.

[tetrakid]

Fish-keeping is most enjoyable when things are kept simple, the simpler the better.
Too much complicated stuff make it a stressful activity or nightmare rather than a pleasant hobby.

[greenie]

Please remove the de-nitrate and matrix from your aquarium. It's not design to work like that. They need water flow. Don't waste money, time and effort. Also remove the coral chips. You want stable pH, increase your kH by adding sodium bicarbonate. But I prefer you don't bother with controlling your pH. Your type of substrate behaves like that when new. Just wait.

Reduce your light period. Stop dosing flourish until the algae is eliminated. Continue with excel. New plants melting is normal, just don't kept changing the water parameter as the plants will react accordingly(melting) to acclimatise to new water parameter.

Follow these and you will see positive results soon. But firstly remove the items I mention if you want things to improve.

[Urban Aquaria]

The parameters look good... seems more stable now.

Btw, the damselfly nymph might have just finally turned into an adult damselfly and flew away.

[Cyberkinetic]

Hi greenie,

the de-nitrate and matrix I'll just leave them there, even if i take them out, I've got no use for them.. just take it as decoration even though I do know it's not effective...

I have concern about adding sodium bicarbonate... I mean I am doing daily water changes, so I'm not sure how often or how much to add the sodium bicarbonate... end up my PH might fluctuate too much for my fish to take...

I've stopped dosing everything actually... my substrate is not new as well, this tank has been around for almost 2yrs. The plants are not just partial melting... basically everything from the leaves to the stems just turns into floating debris.. nothing left...

It went from this:


To this:


Took me 2 days of water change to siphon out all the debris in the tank... it was one heck of a mess... I think my fish went a little bonkers as I did close to 30-40% water change daily for 2 days... mainly siphoning the rotting plant remains out of the tank. Back-breaking and depressing job...

Left the tank without plants for another couple of days before replanting new ones.. again, I went for the cheap plants and got some rather tough looking plant with long and thick leaves. I think they will last longer this time. Tried asking the guy at Seaview if he can recommend any plants which can survive mild acidic water... he just look at me and says "all plants ok as long as it's freshwater and not saltwater"... -_-" anyway, just tikam tikam ...


3 days since I planted them, so far so good... none of that immediate melting issue i had with the elodea... water stays pretty clear, PH 6.5 still although no time to do check for the rest of the water parameters... probably tomorrow. Also I found some critters in the tank.. snails... and 2 varieties in fact... must have been in the tank for a while... size is not that small...


And these two I think mating?? haha.. both sticking together...



Anyway, I just left them be... hopefully can help to clear some of the algae and stuff in the tank.

Please remove the de-nitrate and matrix from your aquarium. It's not design to work like that. They need water flow. Don't waste money, time and effort. Also remove the coral chips. You want stable pH, increase your kH by adding sodium bicarbonate. But I prefer you don't bother with controlling your pH. Your type of substrate behaves like that when new. Just wait.

Reduce your light period. Stop dosing flourish until the algae is eliminated. Continue with excel. New plants melting is normal, just don't kept changing the water parameter as the plants will react accordingly(melting) to acclimatise to new water parameter.

Follow these and you will see positive results soon. But firstly remove the items I mention if you want things to improve.

[aquarius]

I've had the exact same dying of stem plants situation before. They died about 1 week after introducing them into the tank. I never measured the parameters but from what I remembered when I measured my water last time was that my tap water Ph is about 6.7 - 7.2, Kh 1dkh, never measured Gh but I believe should very low. I am using ADA soil so the Ph and Kh should be even lower. Probably that's why it killed the stem plants. Later when I go and increase the Gh (never measure), the new stem plant didn't die but also didn't grow well. There are other reasons why they didn't grow well but at least they didn't die off.

It looks like the same case from your water parameters and to make matter worst, you keep changing water every day. This makes adding of sodium bicarbonate and Seachem Equilibrium (to increase the Gh) difficult. Maybe you should fertilise your plants and dose excel (daily) and try weekly water changes.

[Cyberkinetic]

Fingers crossed, been almost a week since i added the new plants... growing well, especially the round leaves one(not sure what plant it is)... it's sprouting new leaves all over... nothing is melting and hopefully stays that way.

PH pretty stable already 6.5...

Very tempted to get some cheap malayan shrimps or cherry shrimps ... but a voice inside my head tells me to hang on first...

And those snails are really GROWING... getting significantly bigger daily.. haha...

Am thinking to scale back the water change as well...

I've had the exact same dying of stem plants situation before. They died about 1 week after introducing them into the tank. I never measured the parameters but from what I remembered when I measured my water last time was that my tap water Ph is about 6.7 - 7.2, Kh 1dkh, never measured Gh but I believe should very low. I am using ADA soil so the Ph and Kh should be even lower. Probably that's why it killed the stem plants. Later when I go and increase the Gh (never measure), the new stem plant didn't die but also didn't grow well. There are other reasons why they didn't grow well but at least they didn't die off.

It looks like the same case from your water parameters and to make matter worst, you keep changing water every day. This makes adding of sodium bicarbonate and Seachem Equilibrium (to increase the Gh) difficult. Maybe you should fertilise your plants and dose excel (daily) and try weekly water changes.