Endler´s guppy

[stormhawk]

Yes I think Au is referring to Endlers.

The picta isn't available locally I think.. if it was it'll be selling like hotcakes.

[stormhawk]

An image of an Endler that I used to own.. the damn pair didn't produce a single fry.. and it was passed one breeder to the next, and all 3 failed. The female was super fat yet she didn't drop a single fry.

[hwchoy]

I see there has been a very interesting discussion on my statement of "Asian variety". It was stated by the fish seller and I must honestly admit that I got confused by the statement myself, but my discussion with him led in the direction that these were from the "guppy strain" commonly found in the rivers and canals here many years ago, but no longer can be found in the wild, hence the term "Asian variety".

precisely why some of us uptight hobbyist take issue with such assertions (although I understand you are also a victim, so to speak )

what is more disturbing about this fish seller is that he cannot seem to distinguish guppies from endler's. from what you just described, he seem to be confused between the wild-form guppies and the fancy guppies.

Endler's were not well known until probably 80s and 90s when enough stock made it to the trade. first collected in 1937 (for a museum collection, i.e. in the form of kiam hee) and only rediscovered by Dr. Endler in 1975 with enough live specimens to establish breeding populations.

what is found in the local longkang are actually guppies introduced for mosquito control, as well as escaped fancy stock from the farms (which have since reverted to their wild-form). I am not sure exactly when guppies were introduced into Singapore but in the 60s I have been scooping guppies out of the longkang along Orchard Road (in front of what is now Orchard Tower).

It is unlikely Endler's would made it to Singapore as mosquito control agents. So if the fish seller is right, you are actually getting guppies instead of endler's

Note that wild-form guppies strongly resembles the endler's in form and colour, except the endler's have charateristic patterns and spotting, as well as that strong green sheen.

And a friend of mine confirmed that when he was young he would go scooping these kind of endlers from the riverside. Hence it is insinuated that other varieties are non Asian of origin because they are from the more recently imported varieties (versus the "Asian variety" which has been a long term resident of Singapore). This is my best explanation. Not sure if it helps any, but that's my 2 cents worth on this question.

your friend has been scooping guppies all along, and they can still be found in the longkangs. wild guppies are very nice too

[hwchoy]

Endler's can be refered to as Poecilia sp. ‘Endler’.

never allow other people's qualifications to hinder your own logical thoughts and deductions, but do give them due considerations. scientists can be wrong too, and sometimes for the simplest or silliest reasons (you are tempting me to tell the Puntius johorensis story here ). the true scientific spirit is to challenge what does not sound right, and to apply corrections when the truth is out.

[Justikanz]

Hmmm... So, anyone knows where can find the Endler's on a more or less 'perm' basis?

[budak]

i call this the Never-Endlering story!!

[Justikanz]

i call this the Never-Endlering story!!

Sorry ah... Still finding them with no avail...

[gks]

well, Dr. Endler stated that he has never observed them to hybridise with guppies.

I guess most people simply thinks they are varieties of guppies because they look so similar. on the other hand, most of these same people do not have the qualification to make an informed conclusion (yours truly included)

Endler can cross breed and retain new hybridised breed:

http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/cal...ger_endler.htm

[hwchoy]

oh my goodness. I'm not surprise they would hybridise (wonder if F1 is fertile) but was hoping it would never happen artificially. now the box is wide open!

[Justikanz]

Dr Endler did point out that he tot the fry would not be fertile... But from the pics, it seems like they are... Oh well... There they go the way of the guppy...

[Robert]

Hi,
Enlders breed with guppys easily and the offspring is fertile. Most of the so called "Endler's Livebearer" around the world are hybrids with guppys. The endlers have a very special genetic and most of their typical traits are y-linked and dominant. So a "cross" with a rather colorless (from a genetic point of view) guppy female e.g. from a dpuble sword strain produces endler-like offspring. The color intensity varies a lot, depending on the female's genetic.

The California ... whatever is a simply a Endler male x mikarif female cross. Mikarif females have x-linked snake skin + autsomal recessive Stoerzbach metal, both leads to the metalic yellow phenotyp, called "mikarif". So these "new" California ... are just a combination of the y-linked endler traits + x-linked snake skin. You see the snake skin allel is dominant over most of the endler-typical traits. They are fertile and will breed for sure. I can see them from time to time
in our LFS.

regards

Robert