Darn, ich outbreak in my planted tank!

[hobbit6003]

It's been a long time since there's an ich outbreak in my planted tank, and just as my plants are doing very well, it strikes!

In the past, I used to place the fishes' health above that of the plants and I'd medicate the tank immediately. The concoction that I've always used is a formaldehyde-methylene blue-malachite green combo, which would certainly dye the plants and compromise on their health instead, although this is a definitive ich treatment, one which works everytime.

This time round, however, I decided not to go this way, and perhaps source for an alternative to this. I've now decided to use the heat method, and increase my water temperature to 32 deg celcius. The only question mark is, would all my plant species be able to take this? Furthermore, it is always contentious as to such treatment would eradicate ich effectively, though these protozoa are known to be intolerant of temperature higher than 30 deg. Celcius.

My plants consist of java ferns and moss, heterazanthera zosterfolia, anubias sp, ech. rose, ech. tenellus, ludwigia arcuata, cyperus helferi, blyxa japonica, nymphae sp, aponogeton undulatus.

The next question is, if anyone had success using other commercially available medication/preparation without compromising on the plant health?

When coming to treat fish diseases, I'd usually hardly raise an eyebrow. But this time round, the plants look so healthy and the tank almost spotless with algael growth, it'll be a waste to see such an effort going down because of this ich outbreak....

Kenny

[stormhawk]

Kenny, I used Sera Costapur to good effect in a small 1ft tank to treat my apistos for white spots quite some time ago. Did not kill the plants or shrimps in the tank. Didn't remember the dosage but I put in about 2 or 3 drops just to slightly tint the water. That's what I usually do with all the medications.

An alternative is to catch out all the fish and treat them in separate hospital tanks. Re-introduce the fish back into the tank after a 2 week period when the ich cysts cannot find a host to parasitize. This will fully eradicate the buggers. With a planted tank this option may be difficult to pursue, especially when it comes to catching all the fish in the tank.

[PohSan]

Hi Kenny,
I have not treated Ich in a planted tank before. But I think it will it be easier to remove the fishes and treat it in a hospital tank. Free swimming parasite (tomites) that remains in the tank will usually die off if they cannot find a host fish within a short period of time.


Regards,
Ong Poh San

[hobbit6003]

Hi Jianyang,

Haha, I used to contact trace and isolate those infected ones to treat. But now, I think it's gonna be very hard, since the tank is very heavily planted and the affected fishes are very fast swimmers (1 SAE, 2 pencils, 2 rams, 1 apisto. pertensis so far).

Costapur should contain Malachite green (just checked with Ronnie), and I'd prefer not to use a dye based medication.

Now the tank temp is increased, guess I'd wait and see how's the condition of both plants and fishes tomorrow. Perhaps it is time to hit the LFS again, to find if there's any other proprietary medication ideal for the planted tank.

Any other suggestions on medication?

Cheers,

Kenny

[timebomb]

Any other suggestions on medication?

Kenny, there's a brand of fish medication manufactured in Germany called Aquarium Munster. They only have 3 products, one for for treating Ich, one for Velvet and and one more for Fungus. The one that is used to treat Ich is called Fau la Mor. It comes in bottles as well as packets. In bottled form, it's better because dosage is by number of drops to litres of water. It comes with a purple dye but it won't change the colour of your water nor your plants. It's very effective. Best of all, it won't harm shrimps, snails or plants. But take note though, Hornwort will melt.

You have to follow the dosage instructions closely. Switch off the filter after the first dose and switch it on again a day later. On the 3rd day, dose half the dosage and switch off the filter again. Switch on the filter on the 4th day. By the 5th day, the Ich should have disappeared. If not, dose half the dosage again.

I'm kind of sceptical about the literature available on Ich. My own experiences seem to indicate otherwise. As far as I know, raising the temperature is not going to help much. Neither is switching off the lights. The books say Ich will spread like wildfire but it won't. Some fish seem to be invulnerable whereas others are prone. As far as I know too, the Ich is always in your tank, waiting to make an appearance when conditions are right. Washing your filter media (especially when your filter is a big one) often result in Ich appearing in the tank. New fish are more prone to Ich. Ich sometimes can disappear even if you don't do anything.

Aquarium Munster used to be easily available in almost every local fish shop in the old days. But the brand is rarely sold now because it's perceived to be more expensive. Or perhaps, it's because the fish shops make smaller margins on this brand. Clementi 328 and the fish shop at Changi village (Harry's Aquarium or something) which is nearer to where you live sells this brand.

To sum it up, Ich is easy to cure. I wish all fish diseases are as easy.

Loh K L

[hobbit6003]

Hi Kwek Leong,

In the past, I wouldn't care two hoots about treating ich, just like velvet, they're one of the easiest thing to treat.


haha, now my priority and challenge changed: the challenge is to try and make sure that plant health do not suffer the effects of medication like formalin and dyes like methylene blue and malachite green. In the past, I do see a noticeable slowing down in the photosynthesis rate, in the form of less pearlings during the treatment periods, all else being equal. The plants pick up the dye quite fast, and soon all the plants would turn bluish-green in a matter of hours.

As for heat treatment, I've done this before with fishes in Q tank or fish-only tanks. The ich do clear up in a weeks' time, sometimes slightly longer. That is, only if the temp. is raised above 86F/30 deg. Celcius consistently. This time, I've the heater in the tank on at 89F/31 deg Celcius.

Last checked this morning, there's no apparent increase in the number of spots or fishes infected.

Well, I gues java moss would probably be the first to succumb if I have to keep this up for more than a week.

Cheers,

Kenny

[PeterGwee]

Fine aquarium salt should do the trick..Since you are already living in hot and humid Singapore, there is no point in increasing the temperature anymore to quicken the infection cycle such that the tomites would leave the host (this is when they are most vulnerable.). The increase in temperature does not help things and might cause more stress to your critters if the O2 dips too low in the night if you have too little surface movement. Just keep up on the salt dosage for another week or so once the ich is cleared from the critters.

Kenny, if the plants are doing well as you have said, how come the critters are getting sick? What did you do to the tank recently? Any gasping behaviour?

Regards
Peter Gwee :wink:

[hobbit6003]

Peter,

Haha, you guys are treating me like a novice!

It's embarassing, but just 2 days ago, just found out at the end of the water change, that the part that was emersed into the tank, is coated with detergent!!!

Well, the tomites and theronts don't survive very well in water temp of more than 86F/30 deg. celcius.

Heat treatment is probably the most underrated mode of treatment in external protozoal infestation, many people attributed that to the effectiveness to the medication they used in conjunction with increasing the temp.

The fatal mistakes people make, is to increase the temp to a level where the development of the tomites speeds up, but not enough to kill them, and therefore you get an accelerated outbreak.

The problem with using heat method, is probably a longer treatment period.

Cheers,

Kenny

[TyroneGenade]

I second Costapur. It is composed only of malachite green and potassium iodide. Combine this with a temperature of about 27°C and all should be well in a week. If you don't have luck then try King British White Spot treatment. It has acriflavine and quinine in it. I don't know if the shrimps will like it...

[stormhawk]

I think the Munster medication is called Fau Na Mor instead. Either way its still the same thing. Last I checked it came in small packets.

[hobbit6003]

I second Costapur. It is composed only of malachite green and potassium iodide. Combine this with a temperature of about 27°C and all should be well in a week. If you don't have luck then try King British White Spot treatment. It has acriflavine and quinine in it. I don't know if the shrimps will like it...

Tyrone,

Costapur it is!

After searching the LFS for a safe medication, I think that this is the safest yet for my plants. Malachite green should be quite alright, except that photodegradation seems to be a problem. Guess I may have increase the frequency of its dosage and perhaps do it during the lights off period, to prolong its therapeutic level.

King British is definitely out of the quesiton, as both acriflavin and quinolone is toxic to plants.

Anyway, the ich outbreak is still being confined to the few fishes mentioned, and has not spread beyond these index cases.

Cheers,

Kenny

[hobbit6003]

Haha, one more novice question:

The instruction said:

1st - 5th day : dose 1ml or 18 drops per 20 litres of water.

So, does it mean dose everyday, for 5 days?

Sorry, but this is one of the few times I'm using a commercially prepared medication.

Using FMC (Formalin-Methylene blue-Malachite green), I used to dose everyday, since Malachite green oxalate is easily photodegradable, Costapur shouldn't be an excecption right?

Kenny

[A.Rashid]

Yes Kenny, dose them everyday for 5 day, but from my experienced the itch will be gone in 3-4 days time. Nevertheless I still dose it till day 5.

If you notice the colouration from the medicine will be gone in a few hours, giving you back your colourless water.

[hobbit6003]

Thanks Rashid,

Damn, these commcercial preps are sure expensive! For my tank, Id have to need 3 of the 40ml bottles for a full course!

Hmm....time to go marketing to get myself some stock solution.....

Kenny

[hobbit6003]

Thekrib.com does say that some plants maybe sensitive to it, does anyone know what plants would that be?

I've got the following plants:

1. Java/Windelov ferns
2. Java moss
3. Echi. tenellus
4. Echi. Rose
5. Cyperus helferi
6. Heterazanthera zosterfolia
7. Nymphae sp. (African lily)
8. Tonina sp.
9. Some assorted crypts

So far, they seem to be photosynthesising as per normal, perhaps it is just the faster O2 saturation due to higher temp....

Kenny

[hobbit6003]

Managed to get another of my vet friend who also consulted our mutual fish vet friend, Dr Fred Chua, and his advise abt using Costapur, only 1 dose should work for the next 5 days as written, and unless one changes water, there's no need to re-dose.

It is sometimes very frustrating when instructions on the commercial prep is ambiguous, and I had a tie when I polled 4 of my medical colleagues on the intepretation of the medication: 2 said to dose daily, the other 2 suggested a one off dosage.

Kenny

[A.Rashid]

hehehe beats me Kenny, I followed the instruction dose daily and it works. Happy deciding/guessing... for you... hehehe

[hobbit6003]

Rashid,

Maybe I should just go and seek divine intervention from the Chinese dieties???

Well yeah, I think I'd just have to monitor the situation and decide on the dosage later. That's actually what I do for FMC before.

I've calculated that 20ml of Costapur into my tank with a approx. total water volume of 380L, will yield me about 0.055 ppm of malachite green.

Then I came upon a website of Argent Laboratory, that suggested a therapeutic dose of 0.05-0.1 ppm, with 3 separate dose on alternate days.

Here it is:

http://www.argent-labs.com/malachitegreen.htm

Kenny

[cheeboonyong]

Try Interpet brand Anti-Ich.

Colourless, so doesn't cloud your water and affect light penetration. Your plants will continue to grow normally.

I've tried it and glad to report no fatalities, fish or plants.

Any LFS should carry. I got mine from PetMart.

[TyroneGenade]

0.05 ppm is very little... I normally go with 0.5 ppm (mg/L) which is then quite potent. It doesn't kill guppies at that concentration but may be bad news for Tetras and catfish.

I would start at 0.05 and if it doesn't work then double the dose till you find a dose that works. Keep doing water changes!!!

the higher the organic matter in your tank the more you will have to add to get an "effective" dose as organic matter adsorbs the dye.

tt4n