another bba tank

[af2373]

tank specs as follows:
2ft by 1.5ft by 1.5ft
PH 6.2
KH 3
2 x 36W PL turned on 8 hrs daily
7.5ml of KNO3, 1ml of KH2PO4, 2ml of Dr Malick's Micros (3 times weekly)
water change 50% weekly
fishes are 13 harlequin rasboras, 1 swordtail, 5 shrimps
plts are e. tenellus, crypts, cyperus helferi, java and windelov ferns, red lotus
(pic can be found here : http://www.arofanatics.com/members/af2373/maintanks/ pls refer to the last 2nd pic)

apparently, i'm experiencing small bursts of bba on the cyperus helferi and on the roots of the ferns for the past week. the thing to note is that the cyperus helferi is not doing very well....it seems to be yellowing or dying off.

i've checked my CO2 levels for the past 2 days while i was on medical leave from work, and it's in good range throughout the fotoperiod. tank has been running for past 9 mths, nothing has been changed dramatically. fert regime has been going on for months.

slowly and surely, the bba will spread to the rest of the plants. i'm concerned wat's the likely cause of bba in my tank
- withering cyperus helferi being more prone to bba?
- incorrect fert regime?
- too high co2 levels?

thks pp!!

[juggler]

>> 7.5ml of KNO3, 1ml of KH2PO4, 2ml of Dr Malick's Micros (3 times weekly)

How many ppm or what is the concentration in the KNO3 and KH2PO4?

6ml of Lushgro-Micros per week for a 2ft tank is too much. That's equivalent to 1ppm of Fe weekly for your tank size. Recommended to try 0.2 to 0.5ppm Fe only according to Tom Barr's method. So cut that down to 1ml per week for a start and increasing if your plants can take it without algae.

[af2373]

[quote:b05d4a9e6e="juggler"]>> 7.5ml of KNO3, 1ml of KH2PO4, 2ml of Dr Malick's Micros (3 times weekly)

How many ppm or what is the concentration in the KNO3 and KH2PO4?

6ml of Lushgro-Micros per week for a 2ft tank is too much. That's equivalent to 1ppm of Fe weekly for your tank size. Recommended to try 0.2 to 0.5ppm Fe only according to Tom Barr's method. So cut that down to 1ml per week for a start and increasing if your plants can take it without algae.[/quote:b05d4a9e6e]

my apologies. silly me. KNO3 - 3ppm, KH2PO4 - 0.5ppm each time.

1ml of micros per week. if i were to spilt it to 3 times, it's gonna be really tiny tiny bit each time. can i dose it once weekly after water change while the KNO3 and KH2PO4 remains at 3 times weekly?

[bclee]

My suggestion... trying pushing the CO2 a little higher still.

BC

[PeterGwee]

What substrate are you using? How long is the tank being setup? Have you tested your CO2 levels at various times of the day? Just before lights "on", 4-5 hrs after that and finally before lights "off". Is it in good range? What kind of kit are you using to measure the pH and KH? Many assume their CO2 is good and their measurements are accurate which is not always the case. It is always lesser in actual fact. My stand still is that you have poor or inconsistent CO2 levels. Do what Bclee recommends...trim off the BBA infected plants, do a large water change, crank the CO2 in incremently on a daily basis (a bit at a time like 1bps..then 1.2bps and etc) till you get nice pearling towards the end of the day and watch the critters closely. Wait a day or two to make sure. You need to make sure that your nutrients are good when you do this or else you will kill your critters.

For your dosing regime, I recommend this:
Trim off the BBA and then do a large 50-70% water change
Add 1/4 teaspoon of KNO3 2x a week
Add 1-2ppm of KH2PO4 2x a week
Add 1/4 teaspoon of Seachem Equilibrium after the water change only
Add 5ml of micros 2x a week
Crank the CO2 as mention and watch the plants and critters.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[af2373]

[quote:7dbb56ccef="PeterGwee"]What substrate are you using? How long is the tank being setup? Have you tested your CO2 levels at various times of the day? Just before lights "on", 4-5 hrs after that and finally before lights "off". Is it in good range? What kind of kit are you using to measure the pH and KH? Many assume their CO2 is good and their measurements are accurate which is not always the case. It is always lesser in actual fact. My stand still is that you have poor or inconsistent CO2 levels. Do what Bclee recommends...trim off the BBA infected plants, do a large water change, crank the CO2 in incremently on a daily basis (a bit at a time like 1bps..then 1.2bps and etc) till you get nice pearling towards the end of the day and watch the critters closely. You need to make sure that your nutrients are good when you do this or else you will kill your critters.

Regards
Peter Gwee [/quote:7dbb56ccef]

tank has been up and running for past 9mths or so. substrate is gravel with root monster.

PH using ecco test pen
KH using AP test kit
CO2 turned on an hr b4 lights come on.
measured PH once lights turn on, mid of period and end of period.

okie. tot 54ppm is already very high....will crank up my CO2 further slowly.

For your dosing regime, I recommend this:
Trim off the BBA and then do a large 50-70% water change
Add 1/4 teaspoon of KNO3 2x a week
Add 1-2ppm of KH2PO4 2x a week
Add 1/4 teaspoon of Seachem Equilibrium after the water change only
Add 5ml of micros 2x a week
Crank the CO2 as mention and watch the plants and critters.

peter, as i'm using stock solution (made from 2 tablespoon mixed with 500ml of water), wat will i be trying to achieve with 1/4 of KNO3? i somehow cannot relate teaspoon to ppm. pardon the ignorance... for simplicity, i always remember every 2.5ml of stock solution raises 1ppm in my 100litres tank.

btw, 5ml of micros 2x a week equates to 10ml. tot juggler mentioned earlier that my micros is already way too much??!? (i dun mean to contradict or quote anyone but for discussion sake....) care to share why i should crank it up further

[PeterGwee]

[quote:d8349bfd95="af2373"]tank has been up and running for past 9mths or so. substrate is gravel with root monster.

PH using ecco test pen
KH using AP test kit
CO2 turned on an hr b4 lights come on.
measured PH once lights turn on, mid of period and end of period.

okie. tot 54ppm is already very high....will crank up my CO2 further slowly.[/quote:d8349bfd95]

Calibrate the pH pen and when testing the KH, increase the sample volume by 2-3x. You will get a more precise KH reading. Test at various points of the day and for several days. If its good for 2-3 days and then suddenly drop off towards the end of the week (more plant mass due to growth) you can get BBA as well. But the funny thing is that your light is not that high...mmmmm...maybe its the lack of growth from poor nutrients.

[quote:d8349bfd95="af2373"]peter, as i'm using stock solution (made from 2 tablespoon mixed with 500ml of water), wat will i be trying to achieve with 1/4 of KNO3? i somehow cannot relate teaspoon to ppm. pardon the ignorance... for simplicity, i always remember every 2.5ml of stock solution raises 1ppm in my 100litres tank.[/quote:d8349bfd95]

1/4 teaspoon of KNO3 will add about 7ppm of NO3. The rest of the NO3 will probably come from fish waste and feedings. If you want 10ppm per dose, its fine also. It doesn't hurt to dose slightly more.

[quote:d8349bfd95="af2373"]btw, 5ml of micros 2x a week equates to 10ml. tot juggler mentioned earlier that my micros is already way too much??!? (i dun mean to contradict or quote anyone but for discussion sake....) care to share why i should crank it up further[/quote:d8349bfd95]

Tom and James went havoc with the traces and got nothing. I got on the bandwagon and dose 15ml 3x a week and got nothing as well except a waste of expensive traces. I know KF uses fish waste for NO3 but the origin of it still comes from ammonia. Its the main issue of algae...his CO2 measurements is also puzzling to me. pH always measures 7? I can't tell much except that you have to ask him.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[af2373]

Calibrate the pH pen and when testing the KH, increase the sample volume by 2-3x. You will get a more precise KH reading. Test at various points of the day and for several days. If its good for 2-3 days and then suddenly drop off towards the end of the week (more plant mass due to growth) you can get BBA as well. But the funny thing is that your light is not that high...mmmmm...maybe its the lack of growth from poor nutrients.

i agree on the part of poor nutrients. think it's time i stuff some more root monster into the substrate. i kinda regret not having base fert when i started this tank. but to reset it altogether will drive my wifey mad....

1/4 teaspoon of KNO3 will add about 7ppm of NO3. The rest of the NO3 will probably come from fish waste and feedings. If you want 10ppm per dose, its fine also. It doesn't hurt to dose slightly more.

noted.

Tom and James went havoc with the traces and got nothing. I got on the bandwagon and dose 15ml 3x a week and got nothing as well except a waste of expensive traces. I know KF uses fish waste for NO3 but the origin of it still comes from ammonia. Its the main issue of algae...his CO2 measurements is also puzzling to me. pH always measures 7? I can't tell much except that you have to ask him.

now u r making me more confused......heehee....if only there's a textbook on planting with all the dos and don'ts. instead of us having to trial and error....a long and endearing experience to gain. will work out the traces to suit my tank.

[PeterGwee]

[quote:79b4b4312f="af2373"]i agree on the part of poor nutrients. think it's time i stuff some more root monster into the substrate. i kinda regret not having base fert when i started this tank. but to reset it altogether will drive my wifey mad.... [/quote:79b4b4312f]

It doesn't matter...plants can take it up from the water column only. Having a nutrient rich substrate might help if you slack on things but is not a must. Just do the routine I suggest for you for at least 3 weeks and see how it does.

[quote:79b4b4312f="af2373"]now u r making me more confused......heehee....if only there's a textbook on planting with all the dos and don'ts. instead of us having to trial and error....a long and endearing experience to gain. will work out the traces to suit my tank.[/quote:79b4b4312f]

5ml per 20 gallon of tank water is a good starting point. Not a textbook but a book from Tom Barr probably next year end and Barrreport website.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[juggler]

Peter: 5ml of traces? But there are so many brands to choose from and I believe each has different concentration. Perhaps using Fe as a guide, how many ppm will that be?

In Tom Barr's article, he mentioned 0.2~0.7ppm Fe.

[af2373]

to add on to wat juggler mentioned above, i used that ntu excel link to calculate lushgro micros....if i were to add 5ml of micros, it would be 1.06265ppm Fe daily or 7.43855ppm Fe weekly. if twice weekly, it would be 2.1253ppm Fe.... am i correct??

[PeterGwee]

Actually, traces doesn't make that much of an impact. If you really want to determine it, you need to keep the NO3, K, PO4 and GH(Ca/Mg) in non-limiting range for the entire test period while keeping the CO2 high before determining the effect. I don't bother really...excess is fine except for the cost factor. Using Fe level to determine the amount of traces might not work well also as you might run low on other forms of traces if the way the manufacturer formulates it ups the Fe but keeps the rest in the low range. Its not really easy but does not hurt plants that much either as they use very little of it.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[Plantbrain]

I'd suggest adding more KNO3 for sure and PO4.

I think the intial observation, yellowing etc, tells a lot.
BBA almost always, not always, means CO2 issues.

Once the CO2 dropped off or the C H became stunted(yellowing is niot good), then it became a substrate for algae.
Once the BBA comes, you need to trim it off.
Don't waste time trying to save the infected leaves, trim them off.

Do you measure the CO2 with the lights on?
Test, then turn off the lights and see if there is any change.
Stray current will depress the actual pH and make it appear like the pH is lower than it is.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[PeterGwee]

Tom, how about the filters and powerheads? Any potential risk of stray current?

Regards
Peter Gwee

[af2373]

[quote:f009517e45="Plantbrain"]I'd suggest adding more KNO3 for sure and PO4.

I think the intial observation, yellowing etc, tells a lot.
BBA almost always, not always, means CO2 issues.

Once the CO2 dropped off or the C H became stunted(yellowing is niot good), then it became a substrate for algae.
Once the BBA comes, you need to trim it off.
Don't waste time trying to save the infected leaves, trim them off.

Do you measure the CO2 with the lights on?
Test, then turn off the lights and see if there is any change.
Stray current will depress the actual pH and make it appear like the pH is lower than it is.

Regards,
Tom Barr[/quote:f009517e45]

measured them b4 lights turned on, middle of fotoperiod and immediately after lights go off. the readings are rather constant.

wat does stray current mean?