Low Tech tank - Need Help

[mercur1al]

Hi guys, started off my very first planted tank about 2-3 weeks ago. Picked up this hobby about 2 months back, started with a 1 foot tank with just gravel as substrate.

Due to space constraint but yet the itch to upgrade, picked up a 1.5 foot tank later on with sand as the substrate. Had it for 2 weeks before the itch to go for a planted tank took over. Thanks for the help thus far AQ, special mention to Urban Aquaria. His blog was my inspiration and he has been an immense help!

I planted Monte Carlo as the foreground plant, with an unknown plant as background and some rotala as midground transition. Apart from the Rotala, the rest are not growing well, and i intend to tear it up. Here are my tank specs:

45cm L - 29cm W - 30cm H
Soil is ADA Amazonia
Beamswork Hi Lumens 50 - Turned on manually for roughly 8-10 hours a day.
No CO2.
Daily dosing of Seachem Flourish Excel, and just started on Seachem flourish for the ferts. Intend to dose twice a week.

What are the recommended plants i could take on, given it is a low tech? Co2 is out of the question now. Not for this tank anyway. Might move to it when i get a proper sized tank with a cabinet.

I intend to:
- tear out the monte carlo and replace them with Glosso.
- Remove the plant in Pic 2, the leaves are rotting.
- Relocate the Rotala to a more compact section. Think they look better together. The stems are a little weak now, i was told that is due to lack of iron. Hopefully the ferts will toughen them up.
- Was thinking of picking up some nanjenshan rotala. Any advice?

Basically just want to look out for ideal plants for a low tech. Thanks bros!
Attachment 44888Attachment 44889Attachment 44890

[kurty]

Hi guys, started off my very first planted tank about 2-3 weeks ago. Picked up this hobby about 2 months back, started with a 1 foot tank with just gravel as substrate.

Due to space constraint but yet the itch to upgrade, picked up a 1.5 foot tank later on with sand as the substrate. Had it for 2 weeks before the itch to go for a planted tank took over. Thanks for the help thus far AQ, special mention to Urban Aquaria. His blog was my inspiration and he has been an immense help!

I planted Monte Carlo as the foreground plant, with an unknown plant as background and some rotala as midground transition. Apart from the Rotala, the rest are not growing well, and i intend to tear it up. Here are my tank specs:

45cm L - 29cm W - 30cm H
Soil is ADA Amazonia
Beamswork Hi Lumens 50 - Turned on manually for roughly 8-10 hours a day.
No CO2.
Daily dosing of Seachem Flourish Excel, and just started on Seachem flourish for the ferts. Intend to dose twice a week.

What are the recommended plants i could take on, given it is a low tech? Co2 is out of the question now. Not for this tank anyway. Might move to it when i get a proper sized tank with a cabinet.

I intend to:
- tear out the monte carlo and replace them with Glosso.
- Remove the plant in Pic 2, the leaves are rotting.
- Relocate the Rotala to a more compact section. Think they look better together. The stems are a little weak now, i was told that is due to lack of iron. Hopefully the ferts will toughen them up.
- Was thinking of picking up some nanjenshan rotala. Any advice?

Basically just want to look out for ideal plants for a low tech. Thanks bros!
Attachment 44888Attachment 44889Attachment 44890

Welcome to the dark side.

this hobby is poisonous..

I regretted getting my first tank as a birthday gift


based on your pictures, they are looking good and well. i could share some of the plants since i have a low tech tank too.
- monte carlo, i feel they demand good co2 and don't seem to react well to excel.
- glosso, thanks to UA, i saw some members succeeding with it on a low tech. a strong good light is required to let them crawl vertically.
- yeah, i also don't have much luck in such plants. Red and purple plants require high light and high amounts of CO2 and iron to thrive.
- so it was rotala, very lovely. i probably will get them too.

so far, 4 months of this hobby.

my successful plants are:

Water Wisteria
Moss
Anubias Nana
Hornwort

Excel lifespan is around 12hours, hence it would be good if you dose in the morning.

i have the above plants like water wisteria, flame moss and hornwort, you can pm me if you want them.

[Urban Aquaria]

Quite alot of nice plants can grow quite well in low-tech setups... can try these ones (most are the faster growing stem plants):

- Rotala Wallichii (by far the fastest plant i've grown in low-tech tanks, has reddish tint at top most leaves)
- Rotala Nanjenshan (quite a fast grower too)
- Rotala Roundifolia (fast grower)
- Hemianthus Micranthemoides (aka HM, fast and very easy grower)
- Hygrophila Difformis (aka water wisteria, very fast grower)
- Bacopa Monnieri or Bacopa Caroliniana (medium grower, very sturdy stems and leaves)
- Ludwigia Palustris or Repens (medium grower, has reddish tints on leaves under good lights)
- Staurogyne Repens (medium grower, can be propagated to create a carpet)

... and most of the usual anubias, cryptocoryne, java fern, mosses etc.

This is just a very brief list of common plants that can be easily found at most LFS... there are many other plants that can grow in low-tech setups too, just have to check around.

Do note that for stem plants, they need to be trimmed regularly and as the bottom older parts start deteriorating (usually every 2-3 months, in high growth tanks can be every 1-2 months), you need to uproot them, cut the healthy tops, throw away the rotting bottoms, and replant the healthy tops. Its a regular activity to maintain such plants.

Btw, do get a socket timer for your lights, it'll automate the on/off timings for the lights (much easier for you) and maintain a consistent light schedule for the plants.

[jiajuen900]

Sounds like a nice start. I think the most important improvement that can be made right now is to set the lights on a automated timer. It provides much more stability for plant growth. Saves you a lot of effort in the long run as well.

Imagine if you were woken up every day at random different times of the day. Some sense of schedule is important for the plants to mimic their natural surrounds as far as possible. Just like how the sun rises and sets at generally fixed times of the day, the tank lights should also be turned and off at roughly fixed times daily.

[jiajuen900]

Other plants that could potentially do well in such a set up (I have planted them in similar set ups)

Echinodorus Tenullus
A great carpeting plant that has a nice reddish hue in high light

Sagattaria Subtula
Roots really well and is very hardy. Can sometimes sprout flowers at water surface.

[mercur1al]

Welcome to the dark side.

this hobby is poisonous..

I regretted getting my first tank as a birthday gift


based on your pictures, they are looking good and well. i could share some of the plants since i have a low tech tank too.
- monte carlo, i feel they demand good co2 and don't seem to react well to excel.
- glosso, thanks to UA, i saw some members succeeding with it on a low tech. a strong good light is required to let them crawl vertically.
- yeah, i also don't have much luck in such plants. Red and purple plants require high light and high amounts of CO2 and iron to thrive.
- so it was rotala, very lovely. i probably will get them too.

so far, 4 months of this hobby.

my successful plants are:

Water Wisteria
Moss
Anubias Nana
Hornwort

Excel lifespan is around 12hours, hence it would be good if you dose in the morning.

i have the above plants like water wisteria, flame moss and hornwort, you can pm me if you want them.

I know that feeling. Been looking around for a decent tank plus cabinet, found a couple but hesitant to commit as still staying with parents atm. Don't expect it to last for too long so pretty hesitant to go to a nice tank with cabinet, only to relocate them later on...

Thanks for offering bro! Will definitely take up your offer if i go for those plants.

[mercur1al]

Quite alot of nice plants can grow quite well in low-tech setups... can try these ones (most are the faster growing stem plants):

- Rotala Wallichii (by far the fastest plant i've grown in low-tech tanks, has reddish tint at top most leaves)
- Rotala Nanjenshan (quite a fast grower too)
- Rotala Roundifolia (fast grower)
- Hemianthus Micranthemoides (aka HM, fast and very easy grower)
- Hygrophila Difformis (aka water wisteria, very fast grower)
- Bacopa Monnieri or Bacopa Caroliniana (medium grower, very sturdy stems and leaves)
- Ludwigia Palustris or Repens (medium grower, has reddish tints on leaves under good lights)
- Staurogyne Repens (medium grower, can be propagated to create a carpet)

... and most of the usual anubias, cryptocoryne, java fern, mosses etc.

This is just a very brief list of common plants that can be easily found at most LFS... there are many other plants that can grow in low-tech setups too, just have to check around.

Do note that for stem plants, they need to be trimmed regularly and as the bottom older parts start deteriorating (usually every 2-3 months, in high growth tanks can be every 1-2 months), you need to uproot them, cut the healthy tops, throw away the rotting bottoms, and replant the healthy tops. Its a regular activity to maintain such plants.

Btw, do get a socket timer for your lights, it'll automate the on/off timings for the lights (much easier for you) and maintain a consistent light schedule for the plants.

Thank u Boss!

Read your comments about HM, find them rather similar to Monte Carlo and and HC.

What would you recommend for a fast growing carpet? Was thinking of Glosso, but I'm fine as long as they carpet fast.

Back when I tried to plant Monte Carlo, the plants were really tiny and hard to separate. The roots would intertwine and are so fine they are prone to breaking when I try to separate them. I tried both, those grown in a pot and those grown on a piece of cotton wool.

Any tips? I might go for more rotalas, given the ease of them growing. Pulled out one of my Rotala earlier, its growing daily but surprisingly no roots. Is that normal?

[mercur1al]

Sounds like a nice start. I think the most important improvement that can be made right now is to set the lights on a automated timer. It provides much more stability for plant growth. Saves you a lot of effort in the long run as well.

Imagine if you were woken up every day at random different times of the day. Some sense of schedule is important for the plants to mimic their natural surrounds as far as possible. Just like how the sun rises and sets at generally fixed times of the day, the tank lights should also be turned and off at roughly fixed times daily.

Will be looking into that shortly. Saw some of the manual timers, they sure look confusing lol. Do they need to be programmed daily, or do i just set it once and it will remain on that schedule until i change it again?

[mercur1al]

Other plants that could potentially do well in such a set up (I have planted them in similar set ups)

Echinodorus Tenullus
A great carpeting plant that has a nice reddish hue in high light

Sagattaria Subtula
Roots really well and is very hardy. Can sometimes sprout flowers at water surface.

Wow Echinodorus Tenullus looks good indeed. Could be an alternative for my carpet... how deep are the roots?

I read some threads whereby the Yamatos pull out the carpeting plants like HC. I have 3 big yamatos, now being housed in another tank but eventually i want to return them to this tank, so how deep they are rooted is a concern too.

[jiajuen900]

Will be looking into that shortly. Saw some of the manual timers, they sure look confusing lol. Do they need to be programmed daily, or do i just set it once and it will remain on that schedule until i change it again?

They actually are quite simple. You just set the timing once and it will turn on and off the same time everyday without the need to reset.

it will remain on schedule until you need to change it again

[mercur1al]

One more thing, i get most of my plants from Seaview and Y618 currently. They are seldom labelled, only the common ones like glosso, HC, moss etc.

HC, monte etc usually come pack in those flat transparent boxes, whereby their roots are intertwined a fair bit and makes planting hard for a novice like me.

Is there some where else you guys get your plants from, who has a better knowledge of them?

[mercur1al]

They actually are quite simple. You just set the timing once and it will turn on and off the same time everyday without the need to reset.

it will remain on schedule until you need to change it again

http://list.qoo10.sg/item/24HOURS-AN...IMER/419703162

Looks to be a decent price too, only thing is probably need to reset every 7 days.

PS: Dear Mod, if its wrong for me to post the link, just remove it. Sorry if it infringes the forum rules.

[jiajuen900]

http://list.qoo10.sg/item/24HOURS-AN...IMER/419703162

Looks to be a decent price too, only thing is probably need to reset every 7 days.

PS: Dear Mod, if its wrong for me to post the link, just remove it. Sorry if it infringes the forum rules.

i don't think it's reset every 7 days but rather you can program it to turn on at a particular time during a seven day period. After 7 days, you don't have to manually reset it. It will automatically repeat the 7 days schedule previously programmed.

[jiajuen900]

One more thing, i get most of my plants from Seaview and Y618 currently. They are seldom labelled, only the common ones like glosso, HC, moss etc.

HC, monte etc usually come pack in those flat transparent boxes, whereby their roots are intertwined a fair bit and makes planting hard for a novice like me.

Is there some where else you guys get your plants from, who has a better knowledge of them?

if you are looking for LFS that label their plants or might have more knowledge on scientific names of plants, can try Aquatic Avenue, Fishy Business or Green Chapter. But they are a little far for you since you seem to be staying in the North

[Urban Aquaria]

Read your comments about HM, find them rather similar to Monte Carlo and and HC.

What would you recommend for a fast growing carpet? Was thinking of Glosso, but I'm fine as long as they carpet fast.

Back when I tried to plant Monte Carlo, the plants were really tiny and hard to separate. The roots would intertwine and are so fine they are prone to breaking when I try to separate them. I tried both, those grown in a pot and those grown on a piece of cotton wool.

Any tips?

Yeah, HM does resemble MC and HC in some ways, especially when sold in emersed form at most LFS (alot of people get confused between them)... but once in submersed form, HM takes on the characteristics of a fast growing vertical stem plant with narrow light green leaves, very easy to grow and can be pruned into dense hedges.

Glosso is a good choice for low-tech tanks, though just like MC and HC, its growth speed will still naturally be slower than in high-tech tanks with Co2 injection, so have to be patient.

For plants like MC, if you want to create even coverage and maximize growth, then no choice have to go through the painstaking effort of carefully separating the individual plantlets to plant (most people give up and just plant them in large bunches instead)... if you find that MC is tough to separate and plant, HC is even more difficult as its so much smaller.

I might go for more rotalas, given the ease of them growing. Pulled out one of my Rotala earlier, its growing daily but surprisingly no roots. Is that normal?

I also noticed that rotalas don't grow much roots too, even after a few months of growth, they usually still have very fine shallow roots, seems its mainly just to help anchor the plant to the substrate. I guess when in submersed form, they are adapted to absorb most of their nutrient requirements from the water column.

Wow Echinodorus Tenullus looks good indeed. Could be an alternative for my carpet... how deep are the roots?

I read some threads whereby the Yamatos pull out the carpeting plants like HC. I have 3 big yamatos, now being housed in another tank but eventually i want to return them to this tank, so how deep they are rooted is a concern too.

Echinodorus Tenellus do have relatively extensive root systems and they shoot runners above the soil too, so you'll see them crisscross the substrate. They are relatively fast growers too, though i guess they are more suitable as carpet plants in larger tanks (ie >3ft tanks or larger) or as mid-ground plants in smaller tanks as they tend to grow up to around 8-10cm tall, so not exactly compact and short like HC, MC or glosso.

Yamato/amano shrimps are much larger than RCS and CRS shrimps so they have more strength to pull up small carpet plants while foraging, it'll definitely be better to fully establish a dense carpet before introducing these shrimps in the tank or else they will most certainly ruin all your hard work in planting. Alternatively, just stick to RCS and CRS as algae cleaners, they have less plant pulling capability.

[mercur1al]

if you are looking for LFS that label their plants or might have more knowledge on scientific names of plants, can try Aquatic Avenue, Fishy Business or Green Chapter. But they are a little far for you since you seem to be staying in the North

No worries bro, have a bunch of friends who are now stuck deep into this hobby as well. Will ask them along. Fishy business looks a bit atas though... scared to step in since im a budget hobbyist lol

[mercur1al]

Yeah, HM does resemble MC and HC in some ways, especially when sold in emersed form at most LFS (alot of people get confused between them)... but once in submersed form, HM takes on the characteristics of a fast growing vertical stem plant with narrow light green leaves, very easy to grow and can be pruned into dense hedges.

Glosso is a good choice for low-tech tanks, though just like MC and HC, its growth speed will still naturally be slower than in high-tech tanks with Co2 injection, so have to be patient.

For plants like MC, if you want to create even coverage and maximize growth, then no choice have to go through the painstaking effort of carefully separating the individual plantlets to plant (most people give up and just plant them in large bunches instead)... if you find that MC is tough to separate and plant, HC is even more difficult as its so much smaller.




I also noticed that rotalas don't grow much roots too, even after a few months of growth, they usually still have very fine shallow roots, seems its mainly just to help anchor the plant to the substrate. I guess when in submersed form, they are adapted to absorb most of their nutrient requirements from the water column.




Echinodorus Tenellus do have relatively extensive root systems and they shoot runners above the soil too, so you'll see them crisscross the substrate. They are relatively fast growers too, though i guess they are more suitable as carpet plants in larger tanks (ie >3ft tanks or larger) or as mid-ground plants in smaller tanks as they tend to grow up to around 8-10cm tall, so not exactly compact and short like HC, MC or glosso.

Yamato/amano shrimps are much larger than RCS and CRS shrimps so they have more strength to pull up small carpet plants while foraging, it'll definitely be better to fully establish a dense carpet before introducing these shrimps in the tank or else they will most certainly ruin all your hard work in planting. Alternatively, just stick to RCS and CRS as algae cleaners, they have less plant pulling capability.

Echinodorus Tenellus carpets sideways? That sounds appealing to me. Fast growers are appealing as well, i guess i might go for that. Any idea if Seaview or Y618 has it? Just to check, for these carpeting grass, i saw a youtube video about trimming these carpet grass. They just stick the scissors in and trim off and allowing those cut off to float to the surface? Sounds messy though. Is that the right way?

Im holding off on CRS and RCS as i have a couple of rams. Dont want them to end up being food lol.

[jiajuen900]

Echinodorus Tenellus shoots out runners on the side from the main plant do it will carpet sideways. As UA mentioned, it has a very extensive root system. However, they usually do not root very deep. They cover over a large area.

it is quite a common plant that many LFS stock. Last time I was at Y618 (last week) they had 2-3 pots.

For hair grass, I would trim the tips and allow them to float to the surface. This usually encourages bushier and faster growth.

For E.Tenellus I will either cut off leaves at the base of the plant (usually quite painstaking) or just pull out a few runners that shoot out in long chains and re-plant.

[jiajuen900]

This picture might help make it clear what the runners are and how the plants carpets

[Urban Aquaria]

Echinodorus Tenellus carpets sideways? That sounds appealing to me. Fast growers are appealing as well, i guess i might go for that. Any idea if Seaview or Y618 has it? Just to check, for these carpeting grass, i saw a youtube video about trimming these carpet grass. They just stick the scissors in and trim off and allowing those cut off to float to the surface? Sounds messy though. Is that the right way?

Im holding off on CRS and RCS as i have a couple of rams. Dont want them to end up being food lol.

Yeah, if you plant dwarf hairgrass its a regular activity to trim them shorter as they grow out, then just use a net to collect the cut bits.

Alternatively you could look at getting japanese hairgrass instead (which grow in a curved pattern, hence don't get as tall) or Eleocharis sp. "Mini" from Tropica which naturally stays short, then there'll be much less trimming required.

Btw, the good thing about hairgrass is they don't have as much issues of bottom layers melting because each grass blade grows vertically and can get light (unlike other carpet plants that grow in layers) and are usually less susceptible to be pulled out by shrimps, probably its easier for the shrimps to pick and eat algae off the grass blades without disturbing them too much in the process.