News: Exotic wildlife seized from HDB flats

[juggler]

In the papers today:

Tip-offs lead to 37 animals - Exotic wildlife seized from HDB flats.
See http://www.straitstimes.com.sg/sub/t...292040,00.html

Let's be aware of what we are keeping ...

[loupgarou]

moral of the story:

if you keep exotics that are banned, shut your mouth and don't boast about it.

---

I'm not too sure the effectiveness of this AVA seizure thing anyway, I feel a licensing method might be more effective.

I mean, what do they do with the captive animals? ship and release back to the wild? the critters have been contaminated already. put it in the zoo? wouldn't the original owner having kept them for so long be better equipped to care for the critter? what if zoo no space? put to sleep? what if critter cannot accomodate others? single quarantine in perpetuity?

[cherietung]

Lesson to the people:

Do not buy endangered species.

When the buying stop, the hunting stop.

This is to discourage people from buying endangered species whereby they have a slim chance to breed from the owner's home.

[ranmasatome]

i do not understand why people boast about these things...perhaps cos they know its illegal and that fact alone makes the animals unique and the owner "cool"....but if you think about it...perhaps its because of a lifetime of being supressed by the "many laws" we have here that creates such mentality... Anyway.... i don't understand why the laws here are such... its really boring....even though i do understand that conservation and preservation is the "supposedly" the top issue...but really guys...take a read on cats (how many cats there are in an avg. household and how many animals they kill per year) and do the math then you should know how many endangered endemic species that animal alone has probably made extinct (nothing against cats...just an example). but the rule here is they are allowed because they are all cute and cuddly...and "the majority" of people have no fear of them. If and only If the exotic keepers are knowledgeable and have experience required to keep thier pets that are "not on the endangered list" or keep the pets that "are regulated" (like arrowanas...which by the way make an excellent example because they ARE exotic and NOT native) then i don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to keep them.... The problem is...you never know who is qualified..as such....i think they should have some kind of licensing system...like go for some test then can get license kinda deal....anyway...just my 2 cents...rather than some "establishment" shoving the law down your throat... did you know thats how they make foi gras by the way?? they shove food down the goose's throat until it gets so fat it dies from food being constantly shoved!! then they extract the liver...mmmmm what a "delicacy" we've become...wait...or am i not allowed to say that?

[budak]

There are large numbers of inconsistencies in local pet laws. The no-cats in HDB (even though noisy toy dogs are permited) is one and to which the authorities have no satisfactory answer. This issue is also compounded by the number of strays, SPCA/cat shelter animals PLUS HDB dwellers who would love to adopt and care for a house-trained, sterilised cat.

As I have noted elsewhere, I do tend to favour sustainable trade in 'wild' pets, meaning reptiles/amphibians/birds/mammals that are bred in captivity (possibly also sterilised to prevent breeding by escapees). The concern cited by some that pet iguanas etc could escape and get established locally is refutted by the possibility of sterilisation (and licensing, as with dogs) AS WELL AS the fact that wanton release and local feral populations of hideous fish that do not belong in the wild ANYWHERE in the world is rampant and NOT regarded as a big problem by the authorities.

As related area is home breeding and sale of livestock, which is technically illegal without a license too. While I suspect folks who breed discus, guppies, apistos etc won't have to worry too much, there is a valid concern that indiscriminate breeding and unregulated hatcheries can have negative spill-over effects on both the legitimate trade and eco-system. When on another local forum, people are blatantly saying that if they can't breed AND sell their pets, they will dump them all in the reservoirs, what does that say about the goals and mindset of these supposed pet-lovers? Are they really keeping and breeding animals for love or for money?

[ranmasatome]

Budak....i can't agree more....i mean...why are the laws special for fishes?? are they not also a species to be considered?? sometimes i wonder what the "people in power" are doing...its quite saddening...
As for the people that say that they are going to dump their fishes...if the authorities would like...and since its not going to make anymore differences to the many fines we already have here in singapore....fine the hell outta them!! if you get fined $1000 per piece of exotic animal you have in singapore (which i know is a low fine cos some can go as high as $5000-$10000!! per piece) then fine these buggers $1000 for every piece dumped....i bet the conservation authority would be rich if they dumped their collection... Perhaps if (and this is a super BIG if) people are finally allowed to own and care for exotic animals in singapore then they should be licensed and made known to the authorities...they should also report death and have proof of it...like some one would come and check or soemthing...if the animal escapes, then you're fined just the same...
this would seriously stop people that are in the business for money to not keep those animals because they are constantly underwatch....and are in the position to even loose money when their "pet" escapes. to the real pet lover...the ones that keep 1-2 or 3-5 of these pets...its easier to keep watch and the risk isnt that high...although still there, if you don't want the troubleness of such things..then you wont keep them....for me...if such a law was allowed...i think it would be all worth while..and i would buy reptiles left right centre...but as for now...i don't think i am that rich (or stupid) to incur the wrath of the authorities....like they say...when in rome do as the romans do. However, that doesn't mean we can't have an opinion.

[loupgarou]

first of all, if licensing is allowed, I think most people would keep to the side of the law. the trade can and will be sustainable and the distributors of such exotics will be well known (for public marketing purposes) so for their profit margins, sticking to the side of the law will be a plus.

I've always wanted a king snake....I'm sure all those unwanted gerbils, chincillias, hamsters would have a welcome companion (check www.pets.com.sg)

[ranmasatome]

lol...king snakes are cool....i used to have a few colubrids and pythons as well when i was overseas....they rocked!! loved them to bits...but alas...come home so must sell away....damn heart pain.....well better heart pain than pocket burn one hole from fines..lol.

[joestoys]

that's why singapore is so BORING!

[budak]

Boring is what one makes our of his or her own life.... I can understand the appeal of keeping interesting and unusual pets, but why judge local life by this prohibition?

[gregorsamsa]

in a light hearted mood, the seizure ironically coincided with the "neighbour meditiation campign".

As for why we can't keep cats, i think its because compared to a dog, you can't obediance train it. Secondlym for a more archaic reason, it is because the cat may 1) accidentally fall from our high rise 2) knock off any potted plants (potted plants placed on verandas are illegal i suppose).

As for people who breed and sell in foras, i do notice that there are some who do that and i believe they should qualify as traders.

As budak has observed from elsewhere, it is these very people who breed and sell that resulted in this "notification". I believe that these people can in the first place either give away the fries, or if they do not want them, freeze them. While these people may say its unethical to put down living things, on a philosophical note, is it ethical to keep animals in the first place?

luckily for me, i keep plabts, but as it is, alot of people are pursuing this hobby with monetary incentive in mind and thus i label them sharp pointed things.

cheers and happy planting

[joestoys]

[quote:1984b93468="budak"]Boring is what one makes our of his or her own life.... I can understand the appeal of keeping interesting and unusual pets, but why judge local life by this prohibition?[/quote:1984b93468]

most singaporean life is work, eat, sleep, eat, work.... get pay and all over again work, eat, sleep, eat, work....

there are many other example ... i think prefer not to mention here..... keeping unusual pets is just one of the thing.


really it's not allow to keep cats as pet??? but stupid dogs are allowed???

[budak]

well, do you see yourself as one of these work,eat,sleep,work(and shopping) people? If you know better, and realise that there's more to life than all these basic functions, by all means forge your own path. Why let the mindless crowd define YOUR life?

For cats issues in Singapore, have a look at www.catwelfare.org.

[kyne]

[quote:ee6f3af087="joestoys"][quote:ee6f3af087="budak"]Boring is what one makes our of his or her own life.... I can understand the appeal of keeping interesting and unusual pets, but why judge local life by this prohibition?[/quote:ee6f3af087]

most singaporean life is work, eat, sleep, eat, work.... get pay and all over again work, eat, sleep, eat, work....

there are many other example ... i think prefer not to mention here..... keeping unusual pets is just one of the thing.


really it's not allow to keep cats as pet??? but stupid dogs are allowed???[/quote:ee6f3af087]
Well.. cats are defintely stupider than dogs..

[ranmasatome]

lol greg...

[joestoys]

[quote:ca9e9c4781="budak"]well, do you see yourself as one of these work,eat,sleep,work(and shopping) people? If you know better, and realise that there's more to life than all these basic functions, by all means forge your own path. Why let the mindless crowd define YOUR life?

For cats issues in Singapore, have a look at www.catwelfare.org.[/quote:ca9e9c4781]

of course not... my 2 kids as well as my wife define my life.

but sad to say do see lots singaporean live that kind of life. eat sleep work..... and work to drive so that can drive to work....

[joestoys]

[/quote]
Well.. cats are defintely stupider than dogs.. [/quote]

both are stupid but cat just a little smarter and cleaner. dog eat it's own shit

I am sure there are more Exotic wildlife out there in singapore.....

[ranmasatome]

Actually eating its own shit is not stupid if you look at it nutrition-wise... lots of animals eat their own shit..just that we don't see it..they do it direct so straight from their @$$. That is called auto-caprophagy...it actually benefits the animal because they get the nutrition they won't otherwise get from their normal digestion pathways, since these nutrients are only available after their intestines (which is where nutrients are absorbed). So they have no way of attaining it unless they eat what comes out again...so in a sense it is quite smart..

[joestoys]

That's new to me..... cough cough ..... a dog quietly eat it's own shit and lick it's owner's face without him knowing cough cough

[Nowornever]

Oh my. hope my friends' houses not among those raided. They've got box tortoises, tarantulas and some imported reptiles. Haix. But at least better than thw tiger and sun bear hiding in some bukit timah house. That is way too overboard. Cruel. Have they found the animals?

Agree that singapore like not much to see and do COMPARE to countries like malaysia, spain, australia, egypt and blahblahhh....... But i thynk you choose the life you lead lorlx. We got fresh air and open green spaces here can go jog, soccer, gym, swim, tennis, canoeiong whadever. Go time go treetop walk, clean beach, clean mangrove, nature guide others in Sungei Buloh or ubin or be nature guided. Go clubbing, see exhibitions - so many are free one, attend family fests, volunteer at community centres, libraries, animal welfare organisations and homes, talk part in trialathons, marathons, bachelor parties, hen parties, window shopping, bbq, Kbox....... We got Cosplay events, Army Open House, Chek Jawa, Aquarama and all the other fish shows, pet events and shows, Lime party, countdown parties everywhere, singapore idols, kbox karaoke challenge, Creative and Nike and.... warehouse sales, Great Singapore sales, Ubin Day, holiday resorts, world heart fair at Dolby Ghaut, and much more. Not that bad after all. Boring only if you no $$$$, do night shift or if you don't care.

I think the topics with shit stuff is quite stupid.