Need Advice...

[GreenTea]

hi bros,

i need advice as im trying to start an aro planted tank.. one of the main reason i wanted to start a planted tank is that i wanna tan my red using mh lights... and since im getting such expensive lights, i might as well start a planted tank which is what i always wanted.. just tat i didnt wanna invest in a co2 system... now that ive decided, i got a few problems..

firstly, mine is a sump tank.. thus, there will be water splashing in the sump... and i think co2 will be lost.. so what should be done?

also, mine is overflow/underflow system... now that im gonna fill the sand into the tank, my underflow system will be redundant...

secondly, im gonna use 2x150w mh by dymax hilux lights.. im afraid that the water will be too warm since aro tanks are covered and am afraid tat the plants will die...

thirdly, im really afraid that im unable to control the co2 properly... which might affect my red aro....

i still have many many questions and ive bee reading alot and doing alot of research..but think the best way to learn is to hands on... but i dont wanna put my aro in any danger...

as for fertilisers, how should i add the fertilisers and how often..

thanx alot!

[vinz]

...
firstly, mine is a sump tank.. thus, there will be water splashing in the sump... and i think co2 will be lost.. so what should be done?

Minimise lost of CO2 by reducing the water splash caused by overflowing water. Methods to do this is to put some form of padding inside the overflow area. Others use a sloped glass to reduce splash.

For the return pipe, if its above water, add additional piping so that the water exits the pipe under water. Similarly for the pipe that pipes water to the sump.

There are several guys using sump with arowana planted tanks, you can ask them how they achieve the above. Blur one is one. I'm not sure if mikekoh is using a sump or canister filters.

also, mine is overflow/underflow system... now that im gonna fill the sand into the tank, my underflow system will be redundant...

Not really, section off an area around the underflow and fill it with pebbles. The finest being at the bottom. It will still be able to work but with a large pore pre-filter.

secondly, im gonna use 2x150w mh by dymax hilux lights.. im afraid that the water will be too warm since aro tanks are covered and am afraid tat the plants will die...

Use fans or chillers to cool the water. Place the lights as high as possible, taking into consideration coverage, penetration, etc.

Use airy covers like stainless steel mesh instead of glass. Other then allowing good air circulation, it allows fans to do their job too. I'm using mesh with a 2inch grid (i.e. the bars are 2 inches a part). This size is good for the larger arowanas. For the juveniles, use a smaller mesh.

Fish, if they want to jump, will try to jump through any hole they think they can fit thru. If you think the arowana can squeeze thru (yes, squeeze), it's too big. I learnt the lesson the hard way. Fortunately, the fish survived with only a broken fin and a few lost scales.

thirdly, im really afraid that im unable to control the co2 properly... which might affect my red aro....

Expensive fish... so spend a little more to get a reliable CO2 set and a solenoid. By reliable, I mean the regulator and needle valve. There are some sets out there that do not have proper regulator and you won't be able to control the CO2 injection rate very well.

I haven't being shopping for regulators for a while, so I don't know what is cheap and good. I'm using JBJ and Tyron (or somtehing like that). Go to a reputable planted tank shop, they'll know what works. Ask the forumers here, maybe in a seperate thread.

CO2 loss from your sump provides some insurance.

Use the pH-KH graph to estimate your CO2 levels. Use a pH pen instead of a pH kit.

You should be intoducing the smaller tank mates a few weeks before the arowana, so they can be your "canary".

The day you introduce to the arowana to the tank, make sure you can be around the house for a 3 or 4 hours. Check on the tank/fish every 15 mins in the first hour. Then every half hour after that. By the 3rd or 4th hour, if all seems fine, it should be safe. Arowana's seem to have a lower tolerance for CO2 levels compared to other fishes, but still way above planted tank standards.

Fishes breathing at the surface is also a symptom of gill burn caused by high levels or ammonium/nitrite. So determine thru other means whether its CO2 poisoning or that.

i still have many many questions and ive bee reading alot and doing alot of research..but think the best way to learn is to hands on... but i dont wanna put my aro in any danger...

Ask more questions.

as for fertilisers, how should i add the fertilisers and how often..

Base fert. Normal soils are a good and cheap alternative to the aquatic substrates sold at LFS. You can get these soils at plant nurseries. Search the forum for "soil", "peat", "cocopeat" and "aquatic compost" for more info. Also search the www. Supplement it by mixing in some substrate fertilisers like root monster (loose pellet form) before covering with gravel. After that, you can pretty much leave it alone.

For water fertilisers, I'm using EasyLife Profito and am quite happy with it. Follow the instructions.

An arowana tank is usually high on NO3 (nitrate). For me, the only other fert I add is KH2PO4 to balance the NO3.

...
thanx alot!

You are most welcomed.

[GreenTea]

there is a dennerle diffuser that cost abt $90... much more ex then the taiwan brand...

anyone can give me advice which is better??

was told that the dennerle one save 10-20% more co2....

[GreenTea]

also, any other gravel to use other then lapis sand by rmc pacific... which is the one used by most planted lfs...

[vinz]

Opps. I just realised that my post was cut off... argh!

OK.. to add on after the bit about soil ferts.

You can get the soils from plant nurseries. Mix in some substrate fertilisers like root monster loose form before covering with gravel. Search the forum for "soil", "aquatic compost", "cocopeat" and "peat", for more info.

For water fertilisation, I'm using Easylife Profito and I'm happy with it. I use as per the instructions. Arowana planted tanks tend towards higher NO3, so I dose KH2PO4 to balance that out.

[vinz]

there is a dennerle diffuser that cost abt $90... much more ex then the taiwan brand...

anyone can give me advice which is better??

was told that the dennerle one save 10-20% more co2....

Diffusor or reactor? Or flipper?

For a large tank like this, I recommend that you go for the external CO2 reactor. Nature Aquairum has a custom made one for about $70 (I think). They are quite efficient... no loss of CO2.

also, any other gravel to use other then lapis sand by rmc pacific... which is the one used by most planted lfs...

What other kind of gravel are you looking for? RMC is the cleanest for that kind of gravel... it can be used without washing and it will save you a lot of trouble. Price wise, it's average.

[GreenTea]

Opps. I just realised that my post was cut off... argh!

OK.. to add on after the bit about soil ferts.

You can get the soils from plant nurseries. Mix in some substrate fertilisers like root monster loose form before covering with gravel. Search the forum for "soil", "aquatic compost", "cocopeat" and "peat", for more info.

For water fertilisation, I'm using Easylife Profito and I'm happy with it. I use as per the instructions. Arowana planted tanks tend towards higher NO3, so I dose KH2PO4 to balance that out.

thanx for the reply.... what is the reason for adding kh2po4? as for fertilisers, is the waste from the fishes in the tank enuff for the plants to make food??

[GreenTea]

bro, from wat u had told me :

Minimise lost of CO2 by reducing the water splash caused by overflowing water. Methods to do this is to put some form of padding inside the overflow area. Others use a sloped glass to reduce splash.

For the return pipe, if its above water, add additional piping so that the water exits the pipe under water. Similarly for the pipe that pipes water to the sump.

do u have any pics to show? i dont really understand how its done...

[PeterGwee]

Your sump is IOS type or external sump? The main loss of CO2 in a sump comes from the overflow section hence you would want to raise the level via placing sponges such that the splashing is minimized. If there is a trickle section, you would want to seal it tight to prevent CO2 loss there as well.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[GreenTea]

mine is the external sump system...

so does this mean that other then bubbles, normal water flowing on the surface also results in lost in co2?

[vinz]

bro, from wat u had told me :

Minimise lost of CO2 by reducing the water splash caused by overflowing water. Methods to do this is to put some form of padding inside the overflow area. Others use a sloped glass to reduce splash.

For the return pipe, if its above water, add additional piping so that the water exits the pipe under water. Similarly for the pipe that pipes water to the sump.

do u have any pics to show? i dont really understand how its done...

Peter already answered the bit about padding, so I won't.

As for the pipes, all I meant is to make sure that the opening of the return pipes are all underwater. If they are above the surface, the falling water will cause splashing.

[vinz]

mine is the external sump system...

so does this mean that other then bubbles, normal water flowing on the surface also results in lost in co2?

Yes. But the less flow and the less turbulence, the less the lost of gases.

[GreenTea]

is fertiliser harmful to fishes? im afraid that it will kill my fish.. pls advice.. if harmful, how long do i need before i introduce the fish into the newly planted tank...

[PeterGwee]

is fertiliser harmful to fishes? im afraid that it will kill my fish.. pls advice.. if harmful, how long do i need before i introduce the fish into the newly planted tank...

Depends on what kind of fertilizer you are using. You need to be more specific about things.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[wssay]

Yes, Dennerle product can you a lot of CO2. If you are willing to spend money,go for Dennerle cyclo turbo which cost more than a hundred dollar. It took one year to empty my two litre co2 cylinder.

[GreenTea]

is fertiliser harmful to fishes? im afraid that it will kill my fish.. pls advice.. if harmful, how long do i need before i introduce the fish into the newly planted tank...

Depends on what kind of fertilizer you are using. You need to be more specific about things.

Regards
Peter Gwee

im refering to the base fert which is placed between the gravel....

[vinz]

[quote:50f3ad65="GreenTea"]is fertiliser harmful to fishes? im afraid that it will kill my fish.. pls advice.. if harmful, how long do i need before i introduce the fish into the newly planted tank...[/quote:50f3ad65]

If the fertiliser were harmful to fish, would there be so many planted tanks that have fish in them?

If it's a brand new tank, you will need to give the nitrogen cycle and plants to kick off before you add the fishes. If you plant heavily from day one, you can probably add small numbers of small fishes by the 2nd or 3rd day. The arowana, being such a huge source of waste, should wait a week or two.

However, you seem to have a functioning tank and mature filter already. If you are careful not to kill off the bacteria colony in your existing filter when you convert to a planted tank, then it should be safe to introduce more fishes in by the 2nd or 3rd day, and the arowana within a week.

Since, the arowana is so valuable and you want to take extra precautions, don't introduce the arowana first. Put in the small algae crew/other tankmates first and observe them. If they are fine after a few days, the arowana can go in. This will also allow the smaller fishes to be more familiar with the tank and thus raise their survival chances when the arowana is added.

As I posted earlier, plan to be around for a few hours on the day you intend to introduce the arowana. Best if you can be around the whole day, and introduce the fish in the morning.

[GreenTea]

added in my fishes already...

but now, i realise that my diffuser does not inject enough co2 into the system.. waited for abt 2 hrs and co2 is still less then 5ppm

how long does it normally take for co2 to dissolve into the water after turning it on??

[GreenTea]

tot of bringing the diffuser back to change for a better one.. the one that chan recommended me is the taiwan type... will he take it back??

[vinz]

I don't know if Chan will take it back, but if he does, why don't you get the external CO2 reactor from him instead. It's about $75 plus/minus a few dollars. For a large tank, that's the best option, IMO.

IME, the green taiwanese internal reactors cannot do the job for a large tank. Moreover, yuo are using the sump, which means your CO2 reactor has to be even more effective.

Have you reduced the splashing in your tank/sump? If not, your CO2 lost rate will be high and counter productive.

Have you got pictures of your setup? Specifically of the sump and the return to your tank?