Planting without base fertilizers

[Enda]

Hi everyone, I'm a planted tank aquarist born in the age when base ferts seem almost absolutely essential for good plant growth, and this is probably quite a dumb question. I'm wondering, can plants be planted in gravel or sand or in pots without base fert, and thrive? This of course would be along with the use of liquid fertilizers and additives to the water.

What I have in mind is for a 2' paludarium. I'm intending to plant some crypts and cabomba in a sandy substrate in the underwater section of the paludarium. I intend to have good lighting, but no CO2. There will be moderate bioload from fishes.

Will be glad for any enlightenment. Thanks!

Matt

[David]

You probably could use stick ferts....

[kc]

I started Planted Tank for few years without base fertilizer because I was blur. Then when I redo my tank, I bought a particular brand of Base fertilizer but hey.. the instruction manual stated that it can last for few months only. You still need to add stick fertilizer. Now, I'm more blur.

[nkh]

I did my tank without base fert.

I had HG, Vallis growing very well without base fert.

It all depend on plant requirement i think.

[wf7850]

after u have planted, get those root monster fert and stick them near the roots....

[Robert]

Hi,
for the Cryptocoryne spp. and the Cambomba you don't need a base fertiliser. I kept cryptos many years without base fertiliser and they grow fine. I just added some liqiud fertiliser. The Cabomba is stem plant which takes up most of the nutrients with the help of its leaves and the stem's surface, so a liqiud erilser should be enough.

regards

Robert

[Enda]

Hi everyone, thanks for the replies. How about Echinodorus? Can it be kept without base ferts?

[Robert]

Hi,
yes you can keep Echinodorus without base fertiliser but they grow much better with it. They belong to the group of plants which should be kept with a base fertiliser if you want them to grow in good condition because they normally get most of their nutroents from the soil. Echindorus in nature are no real water plants, they are swamp plants which grow only in certain seasons completely submersed. So they are used to get most of their nutrients, except for Co2 and light, from the soil. That's why they develop so much roots, too.

regards

Robert

[Plantbrain]

Perhaps, or maybe it's because they want to stay there and not get blasted down river......most othe rplants fragment, they float and get dispersed that way.
Swords disperse via seeds or runners.

Not sure a fast growing sword is something anyone really wants.

I grew them and 100+ species inb a RFUG tank with nothing but sand.

Everything did excellent, but I dosed the water column.........
MAIN THING IS FOR THE PLANTS to have enough consistently.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[d2hpeter]

hi Tom, pardon my ignorance.
I intend to have some tiger lotus in my all-moss tank to add some red. Problem is that i hv changed all my tanks to ADA soil w/o base fert. [the guy at Biotope was honest enough not to sell me his tiger lotus when he heard i hv got no base fert].
Wonder if it is possible to hv this plant with inserts. Biotope recommends a type of small spherical insert [ 8 for S$17 ].

[quote:2383b522e8="Plantbrain"]Perhaps, or maybe it's because they want to stay there and not get blasted down river......most othe rplants fragment, they float and get dispersed that way.
Swords disperse via seeds or runners.

Not sure a fast growing sword is something anyone really wants.

I grew them and 100+ species inb a RFUG tank with nothing but sand.

Everything did excellent, but I dosed the water column.........
MAIN THING IS FOR THE PLANTS to have enough consistently.

Regards,
Tom Barr[/quote:2383b522e8]

[PeterGwee]

hpeter, Tom has said it already....as long as there is enough nutrients in the water column, you have no worries. Plants will always go for the water column first if it is rich enough of nutrients and will only switch to the substrate if the water column is limited.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[bclee]

In my experience, it is possible to start a tank without base fertilisers. Most plants will grow reasonably well in a high-light, CO2 enriched tank with fertisation to the water column. My first tank was setup without base fertilisers and plant growth was good.

However, contrary to what Tom's experience, I do find fertilisation in the substrate boost the growth of certain plants further, especially Echinodorus sp. and Nymphaea sp.

Although plants can uptake nutrients through their leaves, fertilisations to the substrate for root uptake may have its advantages, IMO. Firstly, one can achieve higher concentration gradient in the substrate compared to the water column. Secondly, the reductive environment in the substrate help plants to uptake nutrients, for example Fe which can be easily oxidised in the water column.

My opinion is that albeit one can startup a planted tank (CO2 enriched type) without base fertilisers, to add it will give you advantages.
[quote:43c7e02c24="Enda"]I intend to have good lighting, but no CO2.[/quote:43c7e02c24]
If you want to do a low-tech tank (non-CO2 enriched) as you have indicated, a rich substrate with organic matter is highly recommended. This is because the substrate not just supply the nutrients, it will also generate CO2. Soil substrate with organic matter is commonly used in non-CO2 tank. Soil substrate will carry the microbes that will break down organic matter releasing CO2 and nutrients to the plants. In this type of tank, one do not fertilise the water column. Feeding the fish liberally should give sufficient nutrients to the plants.

BC

[d2hpeter]

sorry.

this is good news. Means i can just add some localised fert sticks or inserts for added safety factor.
I hv existing good h2o column nutrients and co2 supply and lighting.
well, think i can give it a try.

thanks.



[quote:7ab04a061e="PeterGwee"]hpeter, Tom has said it already....as long as there is enough nutrients in the water column, you have no worries. Plants will always go for the water column first if it is rich enough of nutrients and will only switch to the substrate if the water column is limited.

Regards
Peter Gwee [/quote:7ab04a061e]

[elmike]

I agree that plts like solitary Amazon swords and tiger lotus grow better and more robustly with addition of stick fertilisers. I use Roots monsters (Ocean Free). I can vouch for their effectiveness.

But my question to all is this: for carpet plts like E. tenellus that spread over the entire substrate surface, how does one add fertilisers? My substrate fertiliser (Rondev) is more than a yr old. Do I need a fertiliser boost?

Do carpet plts with runners take in nutrients thru water column? Would roots monster, which I assume is more suitable for a localised boost, be effective?

[PeterGwee]

If you saturate the water column with higher concentration of nutrients, plants uptake rate will increase over time as long as the concentration is maintained via frequent dosing (eg. EI method). There really is no need for substrate fertilization unless you run the water column very lean for some reason or so.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[d2hpeter]

If you saturate the water column with higher concentration of nutrients, plants uptake rate will increase over time as long as the concentration is maintained via frequent dosing (eg. EI method). There really is no need for substrate fertilization unless you run the water column very lean for some reason or so.

Regards
Peter Gwee

It might be easier to use just localised fert.
I hv tried on the tiger lotus with just 1 pcs of the JBL '7balls' and what a growth , a new leaf emerges almost everyday or two, without much attention to the water column nutrients, only occasional addition.
see here

[K11]

So if my plants are in a no base fertilisers environment and i got to reduce dosage of liquid fert due to algae problems, do i need to supplement the substrate with fert sticks, and how to do this if there's a foreground lawn of Hairgrass.

[Livaio]

So if my plants are in a no base fertilisers environment and i got to reduce dosage of liquid fert due to algae problems, do i need to supplement the substrate with fert sticks, and how to do this if there's a foreground lawn of Hairgrass.

its best if you use fert sticks and ocean root monster.

[budak]

K11, if you are using no base fert, just liquid fert, you just need to adjust your dosing to match your plants needs. Don't worry about adding base fert sticks etc...

With most high tech planted tanks, the real problem is often insufficient nutrients for the plants to grow optimally (which triggers algae) rather than excess. Many of us use Tom Barr's (aka plantbrain) Estimative Index method to dose fert (http://www.barrreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1). If you understand the thinking behind this method, a fert regime becomes a simple and easily tweaked matter. Do have a read and you can bring up any points that are not clear for further discussion.

[d2hpeter]

K11, if you are using no base fert, just liquid fert, you just need to adjust your dosing to match your plants needs. Don't worry about adding base fert sticks etc...

With most high tech planted tanks, the real problem is often insufficient nutrients for the plants to grow optimally (which triggers algae) rather than excess. Many of us use Tom Barr's (aka plantbrain) Estimative Index method to dose fert (http://www.barrreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1). If you understand the thinking behind this method, a fert regime becomes a simple and easily tweaked matter. Do have a read and you can bring up any points that are not clear for further discussion.

it is definitely very informative...now knowing that excess nutrients like Fe, K+ is ok.
But i still find the wkly water change a hassle.