Advises needed for my next set-up

[matashi]

Due to my itchy hand syndrome, i have been constantly rescaping/redoing/rewhatevering for every type of tank i have. Make things worse, i am fond of keeping almost every type of fish/shrimps. Currently i have 2x 3ft and 1x 2ft and i am always looking for possiblity to add more tanks without having 325181436181 multiplugs sockets coming out of 1 single wall socket.

Recently came to know about aluminium profiles which suits me to custom make a rack that doesn't cost an arm or a leg. After a lot of thinking to make sure i will stick to this set up and do not keep changing again and again to save costs. I have more or less what i want in mind but there are a few things i cannot really decide.

First of all, this is more or less what i have in mind.
rack1.jpg

The left rack is fit for 411 size tanks although 3(with black base plates) of them i only made them to be 311 to make space for RO(bottom), Co2 tank(middle) and plugs + adaptors(third).
The right rack is fit for 3/1.5/1.5 size tanks, you may notice the brown base plates at the side. It's 1 of the areas i'm not so sure to use.
Both racks will be putting the respective size tanks on the top but the software i'm using don't allow me to input any(or i don't know how)

I am looking to keep shrimps,corydoras and planted with/without Co2 on the left rack. Discus/angels and high tech planted on the right.


Lighting:
Option 1:
Use all appropriate lightings for each individual tank requirements.
Cons: it would cost a lot of money to light up so many tanks, a lot of additional power plugs too, the compartment i have for plugs would not be able to accomodate so many plugs inside.
Imagine the number of timers needed

Pros: Probably better plant growth and great business for LFS

Option 2:
Diy LED strips all connected to 1 power source with 1 timer. The Led model i am looking at is 5730, the brightest and cheapest i can find on Aliexpress. At 12W/meter, I'm looking at maybe 3strips for carpet plant tanks, 2 strips for buceps/nanas tanks and 1 strip for viewing purpose tanks. Each tank's Led strip(s) will be connected via a dimmer to adjust the lightings according to the tank's requirement.

Cons: Led 5730@ 12W/meter might not be enough for some plants especially for the 45cm height tanks, lots of wiring to do and gotta trouble Shadow again on the wiring
Pros: Cheaper costings compare to Option 1, allow more workspace in-between the tanks

Cooling:
Option 1: Use chillers
Cons: A big NONO on high costings, lack of space and high power consumption.
Pros: Achieve low temperatures for better plant growth and suitable for difficult shrimps like blue bolts etc.

Option 2: Use Cooling fans. I have tried connecting series of PC fans to my Diy Led and they are able to cool the current tanks i have now at about 27.5 - 28 degrees. Fixing up a couple of fans for each tank will not be a problem for me considering the low cost and easy to hang on the aluminium profiles.
Cons: Not able to cool below 27.5 degrees, might not have a good plant growth or blue bolt shrimps breeding
Pros: Cheap, don't take up much space and low power consumption

Filtration:
Left rack: The only option i can do here is custom make the tanks,drill a hole in every tank and have a sump below to filter the 4 tanks above. I'm wondering if Co2 will still be significant levels even if i place the outflow to every tank below the water level.

Right rack: Option 1

Buy 4x 90x45x45 low-iron, braceless tanks from seaview and use canisters for all 3 tanks. Canisters will be placed on the side(brown base plates).
Question: With the very limited space(about 20x35x55cm each) available for Canister(s) to be placed horizontally level with the respective tanks, will priming be a pain and will flowrate of the Canister(s) be affected? Any recommendations for a canister filter that small a size, not create much deadspots and still can effectively filter a 90x45x45? I am considering starting a pleco tank in 1 of these 3ft tanks in the future so i would rather not be caught off guard with plecos' high bioload.
Cons: Limited canister choices, additional power plugs
Pros: No ugly inflows in-tanks

Right rack: Option 2

Custom make 4x 90x45x45 normal glass tanks and drill inflow holes in each of them and bottom tank will be 1 sump to filter for the above 3 tanks.
Cons: Ugly inflows in-tanks, additional costs to drill tanks
Pros: Less maintenence time with 1 sump, less power plugs

*I did consider the option of using those hang-on overflows but would not want to take the risk of 1 stop working and flood/mess up the area. It seems there are many bad reviews on these overflow systems.


Main concerns are: Cost savings, lessen power plugs and achieve desirable results for planted tanks
So far i am leaning more towards using
Lightings: Option 2, Led 5730 strip but not sure if it's good enough to penetrate 1.5ft carpet plants

Cooling: Option 2, all cons of chillers forced me to use PC fans but are shrimps like blue bolts still able to breed on 28 degrees?

Filtration: This is the area i'm neutral on both sides and cannot really decide. Please help.........


This is a big project for me and i still gotta decomm my current tanks first before embarking on this plan. It would take a long time for the whole set-up to materialize. Still i got to finalize the blueprints before the diggings begin

[stream]

Matashi, maybe you want to chat with some fish shop owner to achieve your objectives. What you have in mind and the challenges you mentioned seems to be what any aspiring fish shop owner would have. I'm not sure if those aluminium rack can handle the weight of so many tanks.


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[Phillipians]

The weight that you are subjecting the left side to is almost 1 ton... I think you have to reconsider. Unless of course you are living in a landed property, I am pretty sure you will need a permit to be able to place all that weight on a certain spot.

The love for the hobby is evident, haha, but do ensure safety of your family members. Your house will also end up looking like an LFS....

[matashi]

There's already another thread discussing about the loading weight of these aluminium profiles. I don't think the weight of the tanks are much of a problem.

I calculated a single 4x1x1 tank holds about 100litres of water. Even with 5tanks, it's about half a ton of weight on the left rack. The 2 racks will be placed in between 2 main beams less than 1 meter apart. I'm pretty sure I'm still within the max loading with both racks' weight combined. I've seen friends with 8x3x3 placed further away from main beams for years and they are still fine . Their single tank is already almost double weight of my both racks weight.


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[AQMS]

I'm camping here for updates...

[Suzerolt]

Some inputs :

- Did you design in features to conceal tubes/wires? Its always nice to have things neat.
- You made the right choice not to use an overflow box.
- A sump provides the best filtration & ease of maintenance. I would pick this as a default for both the left & right side.
- Place a shut off valve for each of the tank before draining to the sump. This allows you to convert it into a canister filtration system in the event you plan to install a canister/chiller for some specific tank (eg blue bolt shrimp)
- For 1.5ft carpet, i suspect you need at least 75W of LED power for good growth for a 3ft
- Ensure your sump has enough volume to take the overflow water when the return pump is switched off. Else install a check valve (not cheap too).

[matashi]

Suzerolt,
- Yes, me too have considered many options to effectively hide all the cables and tubes along the profiles. Seems to install a hook to clip the cables is an easy option when I look through the catalogue from Prestech

- I certainly do not wish to have a big mess of a single overflow box malfunction although it would be the best of both worlds

- I agree sump is better in filtration and maintenance but will pumping co2 still be an option?

- I thought of this too but the tank that I wan to convert into canister filtration will still have the ugly inflow in-tank. Thought I should decide before I custom make the tanks.

- I'm comparing with Up Aqua pro Z 90cm (32watt). Maybe if I use led strips to comparable wattage will be good enough? Using led strips also reduces the amount of power adapters and messy cables. Anyone have any advises?

- I've never use sump before. How do I ensure the sump is good enough for all tanks? Is there any links to read up more about sumps for newbies like me?

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[Suzerolt]

Hiding tubes/cables
- Clips are a way to secure the cables. Perhaps you can consider a wood panel or trunking which will hide the cable/tubes when viewed from the front/side.

Sump & CO2
- There are many successful setup with sump & CO2. Perhaps more CO2 may be needed to compensate for the increased surface agitation but CO2 is not expensive.
- Sun Pets has a tank that uses an overflow/sump + CO2
- Takashi Amano's giant tank also uses a sump filtration system


Inflow system
- Which kind of piping are you using? PVC pipes or plastic hose? The inflow pipe will be hung over the tank right? And can be removed if you decided to convert it to a canister filter.
- In a PVC setup, you can still make things removable by using a union joint (https://www.fastenal.com/web/products/details/0470699) Link here is just for a photo references. Its much cheaper locally.

Sump design
- Sumps are about compartments & the series of how water flows from one compartment to the other (either from the top or bottom of the glass panel)
- I don't have good links to sump design. There are lots on the internet. But conceptually, my inputs are :
- Must have at least one or more overflows to remove bubbles (i.e. Over-> Under -> Over panels). Have sufficient space in between them so you can add bags of stuff for chemical filtration (eg Carbon, purigen). Design it such that water can flow through the filter media instead of skimming over the top

Others
- Since you are in the design phase, include a space for auto top up reservoir since you will be losing more water from sump + evaporation cooling

[14litre]

Thanks for sharing Matashi.

It's a nice read with learning points.
Subscribed to your thread.

[matashi]

Suzerolt,
-If it's still possible to maintain the CO2 levels with sump, i'm half sold

- are you refering to these? --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65yVr7DiDls
I'm not so sure of the reliability of these

-I've been reading up on the sump set-up these few days, hopefully can learn more.

-I'm not so scared to top up water as i have a tap hooked up with RO system just beside the racks. Would want to reduce the amount of tubes to be more neat.

14litre,
We are all here to learn

[jiajuen900]

I was going to mention that top ups from evaporation would be a headache but you seem to have that covered :P

For filtration, most LFS won't have all the tanks connected to a single sump due to potential outbreaks of diseases, etc. If one tank has a problem all tanks will have the problem.
Personally I would go with Canisters which are easier to deal with.

For the LED lighting, need to consider the spectrum as well as lumens instead of the Wattage for planted set ups.

Anyways, really interesting set up! Camping here for more 😂

[Suzerolt]

Matashi, the video is showing a DIY overflow system (water from tank -> sump). I would not recommend it since you are designing a new system.
I meant the overall piping system in & out of your tanks - using PVC pipes or soft tubes? If its hard PVC tube, instead of gluing all the joints, you can use couplings to disconnect pipes & modify the routing in future.

[Urban Aquaria]

Not sure if you have gotten quotations for the aluminum profiles yet, but the 4040 or 4545 profiles that are recommended for such heavier tank load cost quite alot.

Based on my current rack build project using 4040 aluminum profiles (still in progress), i've found that the overall cost worked out to 3-4x more than just custom making an equivalent fixed metal rack (or using those industrial metal racks).

The advantage of modularity does come at a higher cost, i guess thats probably one of the reasons why we don't see aluminum profiles so commonly used for stands and racks... though if you have the budget, aluminim profiles would be the nicest.

[AQMS]

There are other shops that sell alum profile that cost lower than the mention store,you just need to search for it.

[Urban Aquaria]

There are other shops that sell alum profile that cost lower than the mention store,you just need to search for it.

Mind sharing which other shops you've found that are cheaper? It would help alot.

So far i checked with companies like Prestech and Teckcheong (and a few other shops in that area), their prices seem to work out around the same (after factoring in cutting costs and taxes).

The material costs for 4040 profiles are currently whats stalling my project... i have a whole lot of 4040 brackets and bolts from aliexpress, but still no profiles yet. The overall cost with profiles is edging over $1k+ so i'm hoping there are cheaper sources, before i take the plunge.

[matashi]

jiajuen900,
The lumens per meter of led v is at 2400lumens. I'm planning 3 strips for carpet plants like HC, MC etc
Is it enough?

Suzerolt,
Do you have a link to the type of the system you talking about?

Urban Aquaria,
The price jump from 3030 to 4040 is a big difference. Maybe you should consider 3030 instead. After calculations, my setup would be around $500. But I gotta buy brackets from aliexpress and profiles locally to cut costs. I think it's still cheaper to do aluminium profiles for me compare to traditional steel. Also aluminium doesn't rust like steel do. I'm always constantly worried about the toughness of my steel stands after the rust sets in. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.

zerofighterx101,
Can share the place to buy profiles too? Would be great to be able to cut cost further.


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[AQMS]

Ubi ave 2,there are a few aluminum shops there.
I remember i bought at block 3027, 2020 profile for 12dollars for 6metre i think i cant remember.

[Urban Aquaria]

Urban Aquaria,
The price jump from 3030 to 4040 is a big difference. Maybe you should consider 3030 instead. After calculations, my setup would be around $500. But I gotta buy brackets from aliexpress and profiles locally to cut costs. I think it's still cheaper to do aluminium profiles for me compare to traditional steel. Also aluminum doesn't rust like steel do. I'm always constantly worried about the toughness of my steel stands after the rust sets in. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.

Yeah, although based on theoretical calculations, it seems that 3030 profiles could take the weight with less deflection, but in reality i found that its not exactly stable. I went to check out the various profile sizes and their sample frame setups and the 2020 and 3030 ones seemed abit too flimsy for multiple tank rack applications, personally i would only use them for constructing light stands or intermediate shelving to hold equipment/supplies... only the 4040 and larger profiles gave me the confidence of stability and strength to hold heavier bulk loads (especially for multiple large aquarium tanks stacked vertically).

I checked with a friend who works with aluminum profiles in industrial automation systems, and he also recommended 4040 and above profiles for the type of rack setups that we are looking at building. I researched on the companies in the states that use aluminum profiles to build their stands, and they also use the larger profiles too. So i preferred to default to the recommended profile size for peace of mind.

Btw, just for comparison, i got comparative quotes to custom make fixed metal racks to hold 4 tiers of 3ft tanks, and the cost only worked out to around $300+ (compared to $1k+, the higher quantities of brackets and bolts required for rack designs really adds up and raises the overall cost). Its only because i'm designing my racks so that it can be converted (hopefully) to a single large tank stand in the future, hence i'm willing to go ahead with the extra initial expenditure.

Though that being said, the extra cost difference is in the hundreds (not in thousands), so its not really that bad... still costs alot less than buying say, a real ADA Super Jet ES-2400 filter.

[matashi]

Can leak what's your intended tanks' sizes?


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[Urban Aquaria]

Can leak what's your intended tanks' sizes?

My planned setup is quite similar to yours, but it's mainly for growing out batches of plants (sort of like a vertical farm), so it's less on aesthetics and more on ease of maintenance.

The tanks i plan for are L90cm x D45cm x H30cm, the base area of each tank is kept larger for more plant space, while the height is lower so that more tanks can be stacked up without the rack becoming too tall. Bottom tank is the sump filtration and the other 3 tanks have bottoms drilled and using stand-pipe overflows. In addition, there will auto top up and water change system (from a central water storage barrel) installed at the sump tank too, so everything is automated.