New Aquascape set up on Fluval Spec V (Betta/Tetra/Shrimps)

[Ralph]

Hello World!

I am new to aquascape, below is my new set up barely a week old. Currently no fish as I am letting it cycle and in process of "interviewing" tenants". This is a nano set up as this is on my workdesk, so

for tank, I decided on a Fluval Spec V. The dimension is 52cm x 19cm x 29.5cm. Its length is long enough for some scape while the width is only 19cm, so it doesnt stick out too much from the cubicle wall. I been shopping around for a month and decided this is the most perfect tank for my needs. Also, I have seen images of saltwater setup on the same tank online, so probably an "exit alternative" if I decided to venture into the salty end of this hobby.

As a kid, my parents use to keep an aquarium, but keeping fishes 20 years ago is not same as keeping it now. In the past, the focus was only on the fishes and some pebbles/ornaments on the tank. But now, we call it aquascape, primary focus on the plants/scaping with the fishes as ornaments. lol. But I really enjoy the aquascape concept as I like the serenity when I admire the tank and it is already working for me now.

I am wondering how long should I cycle the tank before I introduce the denizens. I was hoping to have a set up of one betta, small school of cardinal tetras (maybe 6- and some shrimps at the bottom. There is a conflict as very high chance the betta will pray on the shrimps, so I am still considering my options. Anyone with experience in keeping betta with other fish/invert here?
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Any suggestions/comments to improve my experience is most welcomed! Thank you.

[Urban Aquaria]

Welcome to the hobby... yeah, alot has changed in the aquarium scene since 20 years ago.

I am wondering how long should I cycle the tank before I introduce the denizens.

I notice you are using black quartz gravel substrate? If so, then it is an inert material and you'll need an ammonia source to generate the beneficial bacteria colonies and generate a stable cycle before the introduction of livestock.

There is no point "cycling" the tank without any ammonia sources, nothing much will happen, the beneficial bacteria will not grow and there wouldn't be much of a cycle being established anyways.

Most people use active soil substrates (ie. ADA Amazonia aquasoil) in planted tanks and those soil substrates will already generate lots of ammonia... but if you are not using that, the other alternative is fish food, just add a portion of fish food into the tank and let it decompose to release ammonia (the more fish food added, the more ammonia generated), the beneficial bacteria colonies will consume and convert the ammonia to nitrite, then to nitrates. During this period of time, the beneficial bacterial population will establish and grow to handle the processing work.

You will need a test kit (ie. API Freshwater Master test kit) to measure the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels. Over the course of a few weeks, the ammonia levels will spike up, then decrease, at the same time the nitrite levels also spike up and then decrease too, while the nitrate levels will increase steadily. Eventually the ammonia and nitrite levels will become zero and only the nitrate level shows readings, then the tank can be considered cycled with a population of beneficial bacteria (how strong the beneficial bacteria population is depends on how much ammonia they had to process). Once cycled, do a large water change to flush out the excess nitrate levels, then you can start adding in fishes and shrimps progressively.

Do google and read up more on "fishless cycling" articles online to get a better idea of how it works.

I was hoping to have a set up of one betta, small school of cardinal tetras (maybe 6- and some shrimps at the bottom. There is a conflict as very high chance the betta will pray on the shrimps, so I am still considering my options. Anyone with experience in keeping betta with other fish/invert here?

Keeping a betta with small fishes and shrimps can be an unpredictable venture, some bettas are friendly while others will bite and nip the other fishes and eat the shrimps (sometimes a friendly betta could be okay for weeks or months, then suddenly turn berserk too), so you just have to take the risk if you want to mix those fishes and shrimps together.

[Ralph]

Hi Urban, thanks for your advice. Will pay attention to that. Meanwhile considering cycling the tank with just one betta (hardy fish will be a good candidate) right? That should work as well?

[skytan]

Keeping a betta with small fishes and shrimps can be an unpredictable venture, some bettas are friendly while others will bite and nip the other fishes and eat the shrimps (sometimes a friendly betta could be okay for weeks or months, then suddenly turn berserk too), so you just have to take the risk if you want to mix those fishes and shrimps together.

my previous Betta was the unlucky chap.

Got bullied when feeding by the Cardinal (medium) and the Harlequin

[Phillipians]

If you really like betta, go for the wild type of betta. Not as aggressive but you will still be taking a risk, albeit, a smaller one. Your tank is still on the small side, though not exactly a nano, thus you should stick to 1 betta, and maybe a max of 10 tetras. The built-in fluval overflow filter may not be able to handle the bio load as well as a canister filter. Start adding livestock slowly and you will start enjoying the hobby with less deaths haha.

If you continue, you will realise that more money will be spent on equipment, and plants as compared to anything else. The fish will probably be the least of your concerns, at least until you get your final scape right.

Keep at it!

[Urban Aquaria]

Hi Urban, thanks for your advice. Will pay attention to that. Meanwhile considering cycling the tank with just one betta (hardy fish will be a good candidate) right? That should work as well?

That is possible too, the "fish-in" cycle method. Bettas are usually more hardy so can tolerate new tanks and the cycling process better than other fishes.

But do note that the beneficial bacteria colonies will only grow enough to handle the bio-load of the betta, not more... so you'll still have to add the other fishes and shrimps slowly in stages, since each increase in bio-load will require more bacteria to grow further and catch up.

The other option is to let the betta cycle the tank for a while, once parameters are stable, remove the betta and transfer it to another tank, then add in smaller fishes or shrimps of equivalent mass/bio-load, the existing bacteria population will then be able to handle the replacement bio-load.

[Ralph]

Thanks all for your advice. I decided to start the cycling with a betta today. Read about the "inhumanity" of using a live fish to do the cycling online but since when is fish rearing the most humane activities. Most humane would be to let them into the wild.

Decided to use this method for below considerations/factors:
1) Itchy, cannot resist putting live stock into my aquatic mini garden
2) Most probably faster than dead food cycling
3) So I can cycle the tank with the bio-load that it is going to be facing.

As a contingency, I have prepared another small empty tank by the side. If the ammonia/nitrite level spikes, I might move the betta into there as refuge/hostel for awhile. Will play by ear.

But I was shocked when I was checking out the test kit for the pH, ammonia/nitrites, etc.

OMG...even more expensive than the fishes.. lol

[ZIr]

Hi Ralph,

I used to own a Fluval Spec V before as well. This was the last pic I took before it was decommissioned just this Feb.



Just want to share with you the issues I faced with this tank and what I did:

1. The stock lighting unit is 'ok' if you intend to keep low light plants. My kids liked the lunar moon mode too. However I had to upgrade to UP Aqua Pro LED 45 when I wanted to try slightly more challenging plants like glosso stigma and alternanthera reineckii. The stock light just can't cut it.

2. Are you aware of the overflow filter chamber's limitations namely the hole at the bottom of the main overflow chamber and the other smaller slit top of the divider between the overflow chamber and the return chamber. Till today I'm still clueless as to their purposes as it let in all sorts of stuff that bypasses the filter right into the overflow chamber and worse into the return chamber. I shut them using Selly's Knead it Multipurpose and that seemed to solve the problem.

3. I hope you switch out the stock filter. What I did was buy cheap black sponge from LFS and cut out to size making sure it's a snug fit as my top mechanical layer, followed by seachem matrix(put in bag sold in LFS) and then seachem purigen( get the ones that come in their own bag).

4. The stock pump stopped working during the 6th month. Had to replace with Eheim 300 compact which I found slightly better and longer lasting (8th month now but am using it only for water change for my new tank)

Hope the above helps.

edit - I just saw you intend to keep Betta & Cardinals with Shrimp. I think better save your money and either keep shrimp only or if you want shrimp friendly fish, go with something like Boraras brigittae.

I was able to get my cherry shrimps to breed with 4 Boraras brigittae, 1 Ottocinlus, 1 Nerite horned snail and 2 Indostomus Paradoxus. I originally only had the Otto and Nerite until I had a seed shrimp outbreak after which the other 6 fish came in to clean them up.

[Dscheng]

Hi Ralph,

I used to own a Fluval Spec V before as well. This was the last pic I took before it was decommissioned just this Feb.



Just want to share with you the issues I faced with this tank and what I did:

1. The stock lighting unit is 'ok' if you intend to keep low light plants. My kids liked the lunar moon mode too. However I had to upgrade to UP Aqua Pro LED 45 when I wanted to try slightly more challenging plants like glosso stigma and alternanthera reineckii. The stock light just can't cut it.

2. Are you aware of the overflow filter chamber's limitations namely the hole at the bottom of the main overflow chamber and the other smaller slit top of the divider between the overflow chamber and the return chamber. Till today I'm still clueless as to their purposes as it let in all sorts of stuff that bypasses the filter right into the overflow chamber and worse into the return chamber. I shut them using Selly's Knead it Multipurpose and that seemed to solve the problem.

3. I hope you switch out the stock filter. What I did was buy cheap black sponge from LFS and cut out to size making sure it's a snug fit as my top mechanical layer, followed by seachem matrix(put in bag sold in LFS) and then seachem purigen( get the ones that come in their own bag).

4. The stock pump stopped working during the 6th month. Had to replace with Eheim 300 compact which I found slightly better and longer lasting (8th month now but am using it only for water change for my new tank)

Hope the above helps.

edit - I just saw you intend to keep Betta & Cardinals with Shrimp. I think better save your money and either keep shrimp only or if you want shrimp friendly fish, go with something like Boraras brigittae.

I was able to get my cherry shrimps to breed with 4 Boraras brigittae, 1 Ottocinlus, 1 Nerite horned snail and 2 Indostomus Paradoxus. I originally only had the Otto and Nerite until I had a seed shrimp outbreak after which the other 6 fish came in to clean them up.

Bro, wa didnt know your tank so nice sia !! Why decom??

[Ralph]

Hi HBK16,

Vey beautiful elegant layout for your Fluval. Love the way you slope the soil to the left and that piece of towering drift wood is just so magnificent. I hope you did not throw that piece of wood away after the decomm. And much thanks for your tips plus respect the way you troubleshoot and improve upon the tank.

Being a newbie, I will be riding on the standard configuration for awhile, get the tank settled and some confidence before I start on any mods.

I notice the hole at the bottom of the main overflow chamber initially. I thought it was meant as an inlet for water from the main tank , which will then flow up Overflow Chamber( through the filter) before getting into the return chamber to replace whatever volume being pumped out by the pump. But after going online, I saw that the flow mechanism into the overflow chamber is not from this hole, but from the slits at the top of the Overflow C. So the flow is from top of Overflow ,downwards through the filter to the bottom where there is another slit (between overflow chamber and return chamber), where the filtered will then get into the return chamber to the pump. And here is where I also started to wonder about that hole and where it stands in the main scheme of things? lol

After much consideration, it does seem like shrimps with betta is going to be more of a fantasy than practicality for now.

Hi Ralph,

I used to own a Fluval Spec V before as well. This was the last pic I took before it was decommissioned just this Feb.



Just want to share with you the issues I faced with this tank and what I did:

1. The stock lighting unit is 'ok' if you intend to keep low light plants. My kids liked the lunar moon mode too. However I had to upgrade to UP Aqua Pro LED 45 when I wanted to try slightly more challenging plants like glosso stigma and alternanthera reineckii. The stock light just can't cut it.

2. Are you aware of the overflow filter chamber's limitations namely the hole at the bottom of the main overflow chamber and the other smaller slit top of the divider between the overflow chamber and the return chamber. Till today I'm still clueless as to their purposes as it let in all sorts of stuff that bypasses the filter right into the overflow chamber and worse into the return chamber. I shut them using Selly's Knead it Multipurpose and that seemed to solve the problem.

3. I hope you switch out the stock filter. What I did was buy cheap black sponge from LFS and cut out to size making sure it's a snug fit as my top mechanical layer, followed by seachem matrix(put in bag sold in LFS) and then seachem purigen( get the ones that come in their own bag).

4. The stock pump stopped working during the 6th month. Had to replace with Eheim 300 compact which I found slightly better and longer lasting (8th month now but am using it only for water change for my new tank)

Hope the above helps.

edit - I just saw you intend to keep Betta & Cardinals with Shrimp. I think better save your money and either keep shrimp only or if you want shrimp friendly fish, go with something like Boraras brigittae.

I was able to get my cherry shrimps to breed with 4 Boraras brigittae, 1 Ottocinlus, 1 Nerite horned snail and 2 Indostomus Paradoxus. I originally only had the Otto and Nerite until I had a seed shrimp outbreak after which the other 6 fish came in to clean them up.

[Urban Aquaria]

The intake holes at the bottom of the IOS system are meant to be a safety feature in case the water level in the tank drops below the intake holes at the top (ie. due to evaporation)... if the water level drops too much and there are no lower intake holes, no more water would be able to flow in, then the pump will eventually push all the water out from the filter chambers and end up running dry/burning out.

[Ralph]

Urban,

Amazing... *clap clap*

The intake holes at the bottom of the IOS system are meant to be a safety feature in case the water level in the tank drops below the intake holes at the top (ie. due to evaporation)... if the water level drops too much and there are no lower intake holes, no more water would be able to flow in, then the pump will eventually push all the water out from the filter chambers and end up running dry/burning out.

[ZIr]

Bro, wa didnt know your tank so nice sia !! Why decom??

Yours nicer la bro and you have so many tanks.. I guess I got that post cycled tank syndrome (not sure that's what it's called) whenever I see other nicer plants and livestock, I kept buying and adding them into the tank. 5 gallon is just too squeezey

Hi HBK16,

Vey beautiful elegant layout for your Fluval. Love the way you slope the soil to the left and that piece of towering drift wood is just so magnificent. I hope you did not throw that piece of wood away after the decomm. And much thanks for your tips plus respect the way you troubleshoot and improve upon the tank.

Being a newbie, I will be riding on the standard configuration for awhile, get the tank settled and some confidence before I start on any mods.

I notice the hole at the bottom of the main overflow chamber initially. I thought it was meant as an inlet for water from the main tank , which will then flow up Overflow Chamber( through the filter) before getting into the return chamber to replace whatever volume being pumped out by the pump. But after going online, I saw that the flow mechanism into the overflow chamber is not from this hole, but from the slits at the top of the Overflow C. So the flow is from top of Overflow ,downwards through the filter to the bottom where there is another slit (between overflow chamber and return chamber), where the filtered will then get into the return chamber to the pump. And here is where I also started to wonder about that hole and where it stands in the main scheme of things? lol

After much consideration, it does seem like shrimps with betta is going to be more of a fantasy than practicality for now.

Thanks Ralph. Believe it or not, this was the 3rd aquascape redone in this tank. 1st 2 attempts failed due to my ignorance on tank cycling and the problems with the stock filter. Painful and expensive lesson but did learn from it (I hope). Don't worry, that driftwood has been recycled into a cliff for my latest aquascape






I guessed UA has enlightened us on the purpose of that hole, but I still felt it's positioned too low and too close to where the water flow gets sucked into the return chamber. That other slit that you were mentioning about at the top might let in debris floating on top of the main overflow chamber into the return as well so just monitor.

Not saying it's a bad tank, it's still in my storeroom and same as you, I was thinking of using it in my office if time permits

You can still keep betta in a separate smaller tank like the Hagen Betta Marina kit beside your shrimp tank and voila! there you have it Betta and shrimp side by side!

The intake holes at the bottom of the IOS system are meant to be a safety feature in case the water level in the tank drops below the intake holes at the top (ie. due to evaporation)... if the water level drops too much and there are no lower intake holes, no more water would be able to flow in, then the pump will eventually push all the water out from the filter chambers and end up running dry/burning out.

Sifu UA, is this a common feature amongst IOS tanks? The Fluval Spec V is considered IOS tank am I right?

[Urban Aquaria]

Sifu UA, is this a common feature amongst IOS tanks? The Fluval Spec V is considered IOS tank am I right?

Yeah, the bottom intake holes are a common feature in most IOS tanks. Its mainly for safety, due to the IOS filtration design.

Note that even with the bottom intake holes, if the filter sponges, media and intakes get clogged up over time and the water inflow slows down, the filtration chamber in the IOS system can eventually drain itself empty too. I've seen IOS tanks that have been neglected with lots of leaves and dirt clogging up the filter, end up the pump chamber left only 1-2 cm of water and the pump rattling and overheating.

[Ralph]

The day before, i got a long finned beta and when i placed him in the main tank i realize one oversight. That is betta more at home in calm water, and a long finned betta will have more trouble with the current from the filter pump. Mine pump only half of max strength and its already abit hard for him as i notice he is abit stressed. But it might be the new environment.

So this morning, i re-arrange he tank to block outflow from the pump and i think there is an improvement. Funny thing is, while i was doing this, i place the big boy the small tank for feed and ironically, he looked very happy in that 10x10 space.

Kept him there for half day and when he went back to tank, his fins shrink again. Will observe tomorrow.

was tenpted to switch him for a plakat but i couldnt bear to do it.

Like what HKB said, maybe its an excuse to get a small tank by the side for this guy. Lol. After all, no point forcig him into a bigger tank with environment that he doesnt enjoy right? Mght as well custom another tank for him, smaller yes bt he might be happier as i read betta can do without the filter. Just need frequent water changes and lots of cover


edit: to show u the difference of him in fluval vs the 10x10.

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[Urban Aquaria]

Yeah, those long fin bettas should not be kept in tanks with water current, they are simply not equipped to handle it. Very often their fins get torn easily in such environments too.

A tank with very gentle flow/sponge filter would be more suitable for it.

[Ralph]

This morning, seems that the little fellow is getting acustomed to the tank and the current it seems. Even notice him moving close to check out the pump outlet and is exploring the tank. All is fine, but I am now concerned that he will hurt his fins against the rocks.

Either way, it seems too tempting for me to set up another betta tank. *itchy hands*

Yeah, those long fin bettas should not be kept in tanks with water current, they are simply not equipped to handle it. Very often their fins get torn easily in such environments too.

A tank with very gentle flow/sponge filter would be more suitable for it.

[ZIr]

Ralph, you'll find your Betta resting against the vertical inlet slits into the Overflow chamber when he's sleeping. I had kept a plakat in the Fluval after the wild crayfish died and this was how I find him in the morning. I thought he was dead but when I touched, he sprang back to life. My plakat back then had short fins so he was largely unaffected. I guess the current was too strong and sucked him in when he's sleeping motionless towards the OC. Your's is a long finned betta which might get his fins damaged.

Why don't you try pointing the outlet nozzle upwards as high as you could to reduce the washing machine effect in the tank?

[Ralph]

HBK, it seems that so far, the fish is adapting well to the tank. I suspect that he might be even more at ease in still water but overall, I think he is able to move around without too much fuss or trouble. Movements are smooth and looks relaxed.

He is also starting to feed quite well and beginning to play hide and seek. Realize this fish can really hide. Was shocked to see that he can even hide inside the tiny gap behind the rocks such that we couldn't spot him at all. The rocks and my taller plants are placed at/near the pump outlet so he figures out that he can sleep in peace near the bottom of this area. But this gets me worried as he is going to tear his fin sooner or later, but all seems ok at the moment. Might have to remove the rock and replace some taller/denser plant.

Also did check on the ammonia/nitrite level, still no signs. Just it will really take weeks for any signs of it to be tracaeable.

Ralph, you'll find your Betta resting against the vertical inlet slits into the Overflow chamber when he's sleeping. I had kept a plakat in the Fluval after the wild crayfish died and this was how I find him in the morning. I thought he was dead but when I touched, he sprang back to life. My plakat back then had short fins so he was largely unaffected. I guess the current was too strong and sucked him in when he's sleeping motionless towards the OC. Your's is a long finned betta which might get his fins damaged.


Why don't you try pointing the outlet nozzle upwards as high as you could to reduce the washing machine effect in the tank?

[fireblade]

Welcome to the world of aquascaping..
Think you will need to plant more...
Nice betta you've got there! Be careful, your betta's tail might get torn by the larva rocks when he swim pass them.

Many have thought that shrimps with betta is not a good choice, I have kept some cherry shrimps with my plakat and they seem to be doing well together, just that don't expect to see too many babies.
I've put a few cherries with a pair of ram, and guess what, I say baby shrimps Yamato escaped from tank with Ram though...