An excellent video on Co2 for newbies like me :-)

[Urban Aquaria]

Anyway the article says that shrimps may be the most affected. I don't why but suddenly even my RCS are kicking the bucket. I strongly suspect the copper in the trace.
When I initially setup the tank, I was using ADA step 1 and K only. My RCS was reproducing like crazy but after I switched to EI, the population dwindled. I thought it was the Congo Tetras that were eating up the shrimps.
I could be wrong as I started EI dosing and introduced the Congos at the same time.

Thats the tricky part about dosing fertilizers, some people have no problems with their shrimps breeding like crazy with EI dosing, while some can't keep the shrimps alive in those environments... i guess its all a combination of different factors. The plant take-up rate of those nutrients do make a difference too, like what Xiaozhuang mentioned about how in fast growing tanks the plants can uptake copper fast enough so that it doesn't accumulate to harmful levels.

BTW, I wanted to ask you if dosing Hydrogen Peroxide will have any effect on the beneficial bacteria in filter media. Do you recommend removing it?

I guess there may be some effect on the beneficial bacteria... though the end product of H2O2 and water mix is oxygen, so any negative effects is very short and it becomes harmless. Actually the water oxygen levels will increase alot during the treatment process.

Keeping the bio-media in the system during treatment would be better since the algae spores could also be hiding in them too, so it wouldn't be as effective if they were taken out and left untreated while still carrying the spores, since the algae may eventually come back again from infected media.

[Filet-O-Fish]

Thats the tricky part about dosing fertilizers, some people have no problems with their shrimps breeding like crazy with EI dosing, while some can't keep the shrimps alive in those environments... i guess its all a combination of different factors. The plant take-up rate of those nutrients do make a difference too, like what Xiaozhuang mentioned about how in fast growing tanks the plants can uptake copper fast enough so that it doesn't accumulate to harmful levels.

Humm interesting. I'm dosing EI with aim of achieving the below:
Nitrate (NO3) 20ppm per week
Potassium (K) 30ppm per week
Phosphate (PO4) 3ppm per week
Magnesium (Mg) 10ppm per week
Iron (Fe) 0.5ppm per week

But since I'm having only 50% light intensity, the plants don't uptake the fertilizers in the water column. And if the same amount of fertz is dosed 3 times a week, there will be a build of excess fertz until a 50% PWC is done. In the meantime the shrimps have to deal with the excess fertz in the water.
But then again, I've read posts where Tom Barr mentions that he has RCS in his tanks with very high ppm of No3, PO4 etc... with no effect on fish or shrimps.

I'm not taking any chances, I'll try to change Traces and see how things progress from there. BTW any tips on where I can get Traces in S'pore?
I tried calling Lush Gro but after Dr.Malik's passing away, the new management operates on weekends and on certain timing only.

I guess there may be some effect on the beneficial bacteria... though the end product of H2O2 and water mix is oxygen, so any negative effects is very short and it becomes harmless. Actually the water oxygen levels will increase alot during the treatment process.
Keeping the bio-media in the system during treatment would be better since the algae spores could also be hiding in them too, so it wouldn't be as effective if they were taken out and left untreated while still carrying the spores, since the algae may eventually come back again from infected media.

Very valid point you have there.

Cheers.

[Xiaozhuang]

Humm interesting. I'm dosing EI with aim of achieving the below:
Nitrate (NO3) 20ppm per week
Potassium (K) 30ppm per week
Phosphate (PO4) 3ppm per week
Magnesium (Mg) 10ppm per week
Iron (Fe) 0.5ppm per week

But since I'm having only 50% light intensity, the plants don't uptake the fertilizers in the water column. And if the same amount of fertz is dosed 3 times a week, there will be a build of excess fertz until a 50% PWC is done. In the meantime the shrimps have to deal with the excess fertz in the water.
But then again, I've read posts where Tom Barr mentions that he has RCS in his tanks with very high ppm of No3, PO4 etc... with no effect on fish or shrimps.

I'm not taking any chances, I'll try to change Traces and see how things progress from there. BTW any tips on where I can get Traces in S'pore?
I tried calling Lush Gro but after Dr.Malik's passing away, the new management operates on weekends and on certain timing only.

Cheers.

Yeah, the pic is of the CSM + B that I use. I'm very sure that there is no co-relation between dosing CSM + B and BBA. Too many of us use it/overdose it and have absolutely no BBA in our tanks across many years. The possible causation chain is that over-dosing CSM + B to the point that it causes toxicity or poor plant growth, which then gives rise to algae issues. Dosing dry powder can encourage this; as it is easy to hit a very heavy dose without thinking about it.

On EI ; my own view is that is that it is a very heavy dosing regime... most tanks with less light/CO2 can get away with less than half. To this point, Tom barr has always argued that dosing more doesn't hurt, and cover all bases, so might as well have a higher upper limit... Those of us who have results contrary to the norm should do adjustments and observe the changes though - ultimately tank response is what matters. Tank biology can be complex, and sometimes small changes can cause a cascade effect or tipping point.

[Filet-O-Fish]

On EI ; my own view is that is that it is a very heavy dosing regime... most tanks with less light/CO2 can get away with less than half. To this point, Tom barr has always argued that dosing more doesn't hurt, and cover all bases, so might as well have a higher upper limit... Those of us who have results contrary to the norm should do adjustments and observe the changes though - ultimately tank response is what matters. Tank biology can be complex, and sometimes small changes can cause a cascade effect or tipping point.

So how do you determine the amount of EI salts needed for mid light tanks? I'm very eager to know too.

For example, I tried to lower the ppm of No3 through limiting KNO3 but I ended up with lots of BGA.
Recently because my amanos were dying, I decided to limit phosphate as I read in many shrimp forums that EI and shrimp don't go hand in hand.
I was recommended by UKAP's members to dose 1/4 tsp of KH2PO4 3X a week ( that gives 3.23ppm per dose, If dosed 3 times a week = total 9.69ppm ! ) but I dosed 1/4 tsp (3.23ppm) for whole of one week as PO4 should be 3 ppm per week.
Ended up my plants started to melt very fast as though as if there was no Co2. I know for sure my Co2 was high due to lime green DC and gasping fish. The most evident was my aromatica plants. I also ended up with more BBA.

The thing that make EI attractive to me is that we dose to the maximum allowed and we just pay more attention to Co2 and light. In fact, I think this is what Tom Barr recommends.

[Xiaozhuang]

I've seen thousand and one tanks run on EI... with poor results. This has nothing to do with nutrients, but because the bigger part of the equation is tweaking light/CO2, planting methods, flow, substrate choices, plant choices etc. Nutrients are the easiest bit as plants survive in a wide range of conditions. People get fixated with it as it's something easily testable and tweakable. And they come to a lot of wrong causation links when analyzing issues, because they try to co-relate everything to nutrients. But nutrient dosing levels are actually very flexible. Its the other stuff that is hard to get right. Tom barr will tell you exactly the same thing. Unerringly the promotion of the EI method in recent years results in much fewer tanks that have nutrient issues, but because raised awareness of NPK & fertilization, there is huge upsurge in trying to explain things through nutrient levels - to no avail I would argue, that's why there are endless pages in forums where tanks run on EI but still have poor growth or algae issues.

Even discussing growth is not so simple though; fast growth doesn't always give the best colors. Slow growth doesn't always result in algae - lots of low tech tanks are perfectly clean. Fast growth isn't always healthy growth; for example you can have fast growth with deficiencies... and slow growth isn't always unhealthy. Healthy, dense growing plant mass is generally a very good deterrent against all forms of algae though - there is enough anecdotal evidence of this that no expert argues the point.

So how do you determine the amount of EI salts needed for mid light tanks? I'm very eager to know too.

You can approach it from both ends; when plants are growing well with EI, and you reduce dosage, and good growth continues, then you know a lower dose works. or you can approach it from the opposite side; start very lean, increase dosage as time goes on until growth speed tapers off. It does take a bit of observational experience though. And you need to fulfill the prerequisite of getting the other variables right - light, CO2, flow etc so that you can narrow cause and effect to nutrients; this is the hard part. If you use the same setup time and again, you build up an expectation of how plants should react in a certain setup. That is why some old timers will stick to their older methods that give consistent results; using T-5s instead of changing to LEDs, using the same substrate as they always have and not trying new ones etc.

[stream]

I've been EI dosing(KNO3 + KH2PO4) for 2 weeks with additional NPK/Flourish and trace from Seachem. My dosage regime is:

Daily
1ml of Seachem Excel
1ml of Seachem Iron

Mon, Wed, Fri
10ml of KNO3 (from Dr Mallick's shop)
10ml of KH2PO4 (10g mixed in a 1000ml of distilled water)
1ml of Seachem Nitrogen
1ml of Seachem Phosphorus
1ml of Seachem Potassium

Tue, Thu, Sat
1ml of Seachem Flourish
2ml of Seachem Trace

Sun
Change Water 50%
1/8 tsp of Seachem Equilibrium


CO2 is 1bps and I'm using a in-tank atomizer. My CO2 checker is yellowish green and my light is a Green Element 6x3W LED in a 31x31x36cm, 34L Nano tank. My IOS internal filter is aimed downwards and directed at the rising CO2 atomized bubbles. I have just started planting MC as my foreground carpet after replacing my HC. Yet, my S. repens and Lysimachia Nummularia 'Aurea' plants are showing browning on the leaves. Its like it is still starved of N and P. My MC is also showing signs of melting. I'm wondering if my light is too strong for my tank and therefore indirectly promoting rapid growth among my plants. Yet even though I think I dosed alot, it is still not able to provide sufficient nutrients for my plant. My photo period is 9hrs. I don't have much algae issue except the usual Diatom on my tank glass pane and some green algae on my dragon rocks.

If you agree with my analysis, do you think shortening the photo period will help instead of replacing my light? Any advise is most appreciated.

[Filet-O-Fish]

OK things are not looking good at all guys.
Today I was shocked to this in my tank. I know for sure it can't be Co2 issue as both DC on opposite side of tank shows lime green. Some fish gasping.

All the plants were doing great as of 2nd May but now 20 days later, plants are looking like this.

I'm really really confused on this.
Is this due to lack of phosphate or iron or anything else?

Can some kind sole tell me what the hack is going on. PLEASE.
Thanks.

[Filet-O-Fish]

My photo period is 9hrs. I don't have much algae issue except the usual Diatom on my tank glass pane and some green algae on my dragon rocks.If you agree with my analysis, do you think shortening the photo period will help instead of replacing my light? Any advise is most appreciated.

Hi Stream,
I don't have much experience as other members, but IMO, the photoperiod looks too long. Maybe can shorten to 6 or 7 hours. Let see what others say.
Anyway, a photo of your plants will be more useful to diagnose.
Cheers.

[stream]

Thanks for your suggestion to shorten the light period Filet-O-Fish. I will shorten it to 7 hrs and monitor. I really admire those who can have lush green plants and intense red plants in their tank. Unfortunately, I don't have a DSLR with Macro lens to take pics of my leaves with browning at the leaves.


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[Filet-O-Fish]

Thanks for your suggestion to shorten the light period Filet-O-Fish. I will shorten it to 7 hrs and monitor. I really admire those who can have lush green plants and intense red plants in their tank. Unfortunately, I don't have a DSLR with Macro lens to take pics of my leaves with browning at the leaves.

Hi Stream,
All of the photos I have posted here were taken by my iPhone 5 or 6 only and in fact most of the photos are edited in it also. I'm too lazy to use my Canon DSLR.
Your photos don't have to be very clear as long as we can get some ideas. A picture is worth a thousand words.
Cheers

[vinz]

Stream, why do you use Seachem N, P and K with the dry ferts (e.g. KNO3)? Both are providing the same ferts.

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[stream]

I know. It's just that when I see browning at the edge of my leaves which indicates that my N and P are not sufficient. I was trying to increase the PPM for these specific nutrients. Fine tuning if you will.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Filet-O-Fish]

Just an update to my post dated 22 May,
I think I messed up my dosing of phosphate all thanks to the testing kit which kept on showing 5 ppm everytime I tested.
It's only when I noticed heavy growth of GSA on the glass did I realize that my phosphate level is too low.
Now I have started dosing 1/4 tsp of phosphate 3X a week. All the plants are perking up again. Leaf melting has stopped for all plants and there is new growth in Aromatic plant.

[vinz]

Good for you!

On my side, I started dosing Seachem Nitrogen and the GDA has lessen significantly. Started N partially due to nitogen deficiency symptoms showing up on my Java fern and partially from reading about MCI. going to continue the MCI nitrogen protocol (slightly bending the rules a bit) and see if i can get rid of GDA for good, or at least slow enough I can ignore glass cleaning for at least 2 or more weeks.

I suspect that in my blind pursuit to rid the GDA, my daily dosing of Seachem Trace and Iron may have driven a higher intake of N, but it took the plants longer to show me. I've cut my Trace and Iron dosage to alternate days for the time being. The daily Fe and Trace made a noticable difference for the Red Tiger lotus though, the leaves are much redder and bigger these days.

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[Filet-O-Fish]

Good for you!
On my side, I started dosing Seachem Nitrogen and the GDA has lessen significantly. Started N partially due to nitogen deficiency symptoms showing up on my Java fern and partially from reading about MCI. going to continue the MCI nitrogen protocol (slightly bending the rules a bit) and see if i can get rid of GDA for good, or at least slow enough I can ignore glass cleaning for at least 2 or more weeks.
I suspect that in my blind pursuit to rid the GDA, my daily dosing of Seachem Trace and Iron may have driven a higher intake of N, but it took the plants longer to show me. I've cut my Trace and Iron dosage to alternate days for the time being. The daily Fe and Trace made a noticable difference for the Red Tiger lotus though, the leaves are much redder and bigger these days.

Thanks Vinz.
You're right when you mentioned " in my blind pursuit to rid". I did the same for getting rid of BBA. I did not enjoy my planted tank one bit. I was so fixated with balancing Co2 to control BBA and the more I read online articles (US & UK site), the more I was drawn into a vortex of fiddling with lights, Co2, fertilizers and flow.

I had the same experience as you when I increased my dose of FE, my red plants were deep red but now I have gone back to the recommended dose of 1/4tsp 3x a week as I don't want to lose my shrimps.

BTW, have you sorted out your issue with the Co2 regulator from UK? If you have any updates please post. I'm interested in getting the same model as you.

Cheers.

[vinz]

Yep. Updated after my previous post here.

If anything good came out of the MCI thread for me is at least a more structured way to tackle the algae problems.

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[Filet-O-Fish]

Yep. Updated after my previous post here.

If anything good came out of the MCI thread for me is at least a more structured way to tackle the algae problems.

Can you post the link to the MCI thread here. I'm very curious to read it also.
Or you referring to your post #108 dated 15th May in this thread?

[vinz]

Yep, those are the two threads I'm referring too.

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[Filet-O-Fish]

Yep, those are the two threads I'm referring too.

To tell the truth, the same thread was the one that reset my way of seeing algae. It's not a nuisance but an indicator.
Thank you again for that thread.
Cheers.