Which LFS still selling live daphnia aka boon??

[Bern C]

I guess if daphnia pulex or daphnia magna were easy to culture in local conditions, they would be cultured at mass quantities and sold as live feed at every LFS by now... but they are nowhere to be found locally. Maybe as global warming creates greater extremes in our weather, it probably changed the ecosystem and composition of micro-fauna in local waters too (compared to decades ago).

Thats a reason why moina are the only ones which can still be easily bought locally, as they are found to have the least requirements and are the most adaptable to local conditions.

Yeah... Really demoralizing. At first I thought that it's not cost effective for LFS to cultivate Daphnia... But later I read that it's actually being imported but failed to sustain. I was thinking maybe if I succeeded in Moina maybe I can proceed to Daphnia but it seem like I almost reaching a dead end. I still digging out old threads from local forums and collect more information on Moina and Daphnia. What I interested in is how long does a Moina usually last before crashing? How long each method can sustain and the yield rate. @_@

Not related to Daphnia but just as a matter interest.

A long time ago, there used to be a LFS among a row of shops at the place now known as Somerset 313. The LFS was known as "Saabab Centre" or something like that.
It was inside a very long and narrow alley between 2 buildings, with a row of fish tanks right from the front to the rear end of the alley.
Opposite that LFS was Centrepoint where John Little used to be later on. Somewhere on the 4th floor there used to be a "Macho Ranchu" LFS which specializes in Ranchus.

But so far, none of my friends could confirm their existence.

XD Then can catch fish from that big longkang also... Jk. You mean Specialist shopping centre?

[tetrakid]

Yeah... Really demoralizing. At first I thought that it's not cost effective for LFS to cultivate Daphnia... But later I read that it's actually being imported but failed to sustain. I was thinking maybe if I succeeded in Moina maybe I can proceed to Daphnia but it seem like I almost reaching a dead end. I still digging out old threads from local forums and collect more information on Moina and Daphnia. What I interested in is how long does a Moina usually last before crashing? How long each method can sustain and the yield rate. @_@

XD Then can catch fish from that big longkang also... Jk. You mean Specialist shopping centre?

I believe some hobbyists in rural areas of Malaysia could still be still cultivating some Daphnia. Perhaps a relentless search is needed to find a source.

That LFS (Saabab Centre) existed long before Specialist Shopping Centre and Hotel Phoenix was built. It was in a row of low 1-storey shops, not highrise buildings.

[tetrakid]

Oh... the wormy one sounds interesting...
Found a DIY compost link: https://www.nparks.gov.sg/gardening/...nts/composting
@_@ I don't think I will go for DIY too much work.. XD Hope able get from gardening shop.

For those who keep big Goldfish or Koi, cultivating your own earthworms can be worthwhile.
It's also great for those who go fishing regularly.
Learn how to do it here:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srTrDpxm1Uk

[Bern C]

I believe some hobbyists in rural areas of Malaysia could still be still cultivating some Daphnia. Perhaps a relentless search is needed to find a source.

That LFS (Saabab Centre) existed long before Specialist Shopping Centre and Hotel Phoenix was built. It was in a row of low 1-storey shops, not highrise buildings.

XD If longer than Specialist SC, then I am not born yet...

I tried to google Msia daphnia for sale but kinda skeptical. As most look for Daphnia are those betta keepers and some call Moina as Daphnia. Then I saw a source from Msia that sell Daphnia resting eggs but I afraid it might be Moina. I go through their forums, most have the problems with keeping Moina and cracking their head on the culture. Most are the same issue as us.

BTW, I realize one hack on Daphnia and Moina. Not sure if it's something new. I think one of the reason why LFS kept high concentration of Moina in a pack is also due to making them red. When Moina & Daphnia under stress and low oxygen level, they will produce more Hemoglobin to help them absorb oxygen. This Hemoglobin is actually protein.

For those who keep big Goldfish or Koi, cultivating your own earthworms can be worthwhile.
It's also great for those who go fishing regularly.
Learn how to do it here:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srTrDpxm1Uk

XD No more keeping goldfish liao... The last time I kept goldfish is during primary school. My goldfishes were prone to parasites that I actually hand removed one of them. XD I can't really remember how I actually did it. I think I added some medication or salt on that 0.5-1cm oval shape parasite then slowly dig and pull it off. It's like some kind of flea like insect that has legs. @_@

[tetrakid]

I tried to google Msia daphnia for sale but kinda skeptical. As most look for Daphnia are those betta keepers and some call Moina as Daphnia. Then I saw a source from Msia that sell Daphnia resting eggs but I afraid it might be Moina. I go through their forums, most have the problems with keeping Moina and cracking their head on the culture. Most are the same issue as us.

For experimenting, it's better to order resting eggs from overseas.

It's a good thing that apparently no one has found the secret of cultivating big boons successfully yet.
Which means if you can succeed, the market is all yours. I believe it is possible when the techniques are discovered.

PS> Betta breeders are more into microworms as a staple.

[Bern C]

For experimenting, it's better to order resting eggs from overseas.

It's a good thing that apparently no one has found the secret of cultivating big boons successfully yet.
Which means if you can succeed, the market is all yours. I believe it is possible when the techniques are discovered.

PS> Betta breeders are more into microworms as a staple.

@_@ Still haven't decide if I should try culturing Daphnia yet. Yeah... That is a very good suggestion. Will look into it when I have decided to go into Daphnia.

BTW after digging out old threads regarding about Moina and Daphina culture, it seem like keeping Moina culture running is as hard as keeping daphnia. I found something interesting. http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...-live-daphnias My method quite similar to XnSdVd. I wonder how is he doing now.. XD Need more tips from Moina and Daphnia pioneers.



Update on my 2g tank:
XD I decided to remove my 2 horn snails w/o horn from my shrimp tank and put it into 2g tank as my shrimp tank recently become too acidic, ph6. My 3rd horn snail probably dead as I didn't see it for weeks. The 2 horn snails condition kinda bad, a 3mm diameter and 1-2mm deep hole. My 2 horn snails did a very good job. Cleared 90% of the brown and green algae on the wall in less than 2 days. I am kinda worry that it might clear all the algae. @_@



As for my 2 weeks++ Microfex culture, it seem nothing much has change, population like the same. some like the straw and shred it into pieces. Some like to hide in the substrate. Most of them congregate on the charcoal which I think it's a bad thing.

[tetrakid]

Moina is also hard to culture as they are also extremely sensitive to environmental
Crashing cultures is the main reason why it is not a profitable venture for profit.

Why don't you put in another piece of charcoal further away and see if the Deros congregate at both charcoals?
That may mean they are okay with charcoal. Just for some experimental insight.

[Bern C]

Moina is also hard to culture as they are also extremely sensitive to environmental
Crashing cultures is the main reason why it is not a profitable venture for profit.

Why don't you put in another piece of charcoal further away and see if the Deros congregate at both charcoals?
That may mean they are okay with charcoal. Just for some experimental insight.

Yeah.. Both of them seem equally hard to culture. I still reading more about Daphnia and see if it can actually acclimate to Singapore environment. Maybe if someone culture able to run long enough, then after few generation the offspring will get use to the environment?? I have no idea.

XD Regarding about the Deros, I afraid my water quality is bad so they all congregate on the charcoal. I will try adding another charcoal or maybe some floating platform see if they will move to the other platform. I done WC ytd yet they still on the charcoal. Then at bottom there are lot detritus that I dunno to remove or not. There're some Deros at the bottom too but I am not sure if they are eating the detritus or not. I have not being adding any food for a week due to the detritus.

[tetrakid]

Regarding about the Deros, I afraid my water quality is bad so they all congregate on the charcoal. I will try adding another charcoal or maybe some floating platform see if they will move to the other platform. I done WC ytd yet they still on the charcoal. Then at bottom there are lot detritus that I dunno to remove or not. There're some Deros at the bottom too but I am not sure if they are eating the detritus or not. I have not being adding any food for a week due to the detritus.

Let's wait for Shifu UA to update us on his Dero culture. I believe he will be able to maintain a goodly sized culture in time.

[Bern C]

Let's wait for Shifu UA to update us on his Dero culture. I believe he will be able to maintain a goodly sized culture in time.

YEAH~ Can't wait for Shifu UA updates!!
I kinda regraded to add my Deros into the mini tank with substrate. It actually for Moina but I accidental spilled it. XD So I used it for my Deros. Now I find the substrate kinda troublesome during cleaning and WC. @_@ Every few days or week I gotta peep at the bottom of the tank to see how much detritus it has accumulated and how many Deros still at the bottom.

[tetrakid]

YEAH~ Can't wait for Shifu UA updates!!
I kinda regraded to add my Deros into the mini tank with substrate. It actually for Moina but I accidental spilled it. XD So I used it for my Deros. Now I find the substrate kinda troublesome during cleaning and WC. @_@ Every few days or week I gotta peep at the bottom of the tank to see how much detritus it has accumulated and how many Deros still at the bottom.

Wa, jialard. With substrate very hard to see them, lol.

[Urban Aquaria]

I kinda regraded to add my Deros into the mini tank with substrate. It actually for Moina but I accidental spilled it. XD So I used it for my Deros. Now I find the substrate kinda troublesome during cleaning and WC. @_@ Every few days or week I gotta peep at the bottom of the tank to see how much detritus it has accumulated and how many Deros still at the bottom.

Yeah, i found that dero worms don't really need substrate too... i tried putting them in sand, but they continue just sitting in a ball on top of it (quite different from tubifex worms which burrow). Dero worms seem to be more "clingers" and they prefer to wrap around food, objects or roots of plants.

I guess thats probably why you spot them clinging on to the charcoal, they could be feeding on food trapped around or inside the object.

My culture containers don't use any substrate, so that its easy to observe their food intake and harvest them for feeding (they form balls of worms scattered around the container), i just use a small pincette to pick up a ball of them to feed to my tanks. Its also easier to use a pipette to clean and remove excess detritus too (which are just a combination of their waste and inedible parts of pellet/wafer food).

[Bern C]

Yeah, i found that dero worms don't need substrate... i tried putting them in sand, but they continue just sitting in a ball on top of it (quite different from tubifex worms which burrow). Dero worms seem to be more "clingers" and they prefer to wrap around food, objects or roots of plants.

I guess thats probably why you spot them clinging on to the charcoal, they could be feeding on food trapped around or inside the object.

My culture containers don't use any substrate, so its easy to observe and harvest them for feeding (they form balls of worms scattered around the container), i just use a small pincette to pick up a ball of them to feed to my tanks. Its also easier to use a pipette to clean and remove excess detritus too (which are just a combination of their waste and inedible parts of pellet/wafer food).

Some are all over the bottom wrapping around the substrate. Will remove the substrate tmr. @_@ I don't think there's food there as the charcoal is floating. I think this is the reason why they are not multiplying. Oh... I hesitate to remove the detritus because it looks like mashed pellet. XD Didn't know they are inedible parts. ^_^ Thanks Shifu UA for the input.

How's your yield rate of your Deros? Is it very fast??

[Urban Aquaria]

Some are all over the bottom wrapping around the substrate. Will remove the substrate tmr. @_@ I don't think there's food there as the charcoal is floating. I think this is the reason why they are not multiplying. Oh... I hesitate to remove the detritus because it looks like mashed pellet. XD Didn't know they are inedible parts. ^_^ Thanks Shifu UA for the input.

Yeah, usually you can see the dero worms quite easily so just use a pipette to suck up any detritus that doesn't have worms in it (or simply poke it abit and any dero worms that are around will start swimming away).

Btw, dero worms reproduce by fission (they don't lay eggs), so a worm basically grows another worm from its other end, when both are long enough they detach and become 2 separate worms. Therefore there are actually no tiny baby worms, its either single full grown worms (1-2cm length) or longer worms (2-3cm length) that are in the process of developing another worm.

How's your yield rate of your Deros? Is it very fast??

Currently at its most optimal rate (ie. ample food and frequent water changes), the population can double every 3-4 days... but this requires constant work to do, as i need to check them regularly and feed more food as soon as they finish eating, and due to the high rate of feeding and growing (and waste production), i also have to change water frequently, at peak production i had to do 90% water change every day.

Speed of reproduction also depends on their starting numbers, each test culture i started with 20 worms (counted them individually), so it takes more time for them to multiply if starting with small quantities. Even with the population doubling every 3-4 days.... 20 > 40 > 80 > 160 etc, it still takes 2+ weeks of work to get enough worms to feed fishes, then each time i feed my fishes 80-100 worms, it drops the population of worms and i have to wait until they replenish again.

This sort of small culture is okay for those who only feed live food occasionally every few days (in my case its just for fun and watching the fishes eat). But for those who need a constant supply every day (ie. have many tanks or lots of fry to feed), will have to use much larger culture tubs and keep the culture going for many weeks and months until the dero worm population is much larger before starting to feed their fishes. That will need more space and more patience.

Their reproduction rate is highly dependent on food supply, the speed they grow is the speed they re-produce (since they multiply by fission). So if they are supplied food 24/7, they will sustain a high rate of reproduction... the only problem with feeding alot is the water quality drops faster, so have to do more water changes to keep up with the pace.

From what i've seen so far, dero worms can tolerate really crappy water quality (conditions whereby other creatures like moina and snails will die off, yet the dero worms are still alive), but their reproduction rate will tend to stall in such environments. An obvious sign is when the water starts getting stinky and the worms start to congregate in groups near the water surface. So they also do need good water conditions to sustain healthy growth rate and reproduction.

Basically the key is ample food + clean water = maximum reproduction rate, its all about balancing those 2 factors.

I'll be posting a more detailed thread with photos of my test culture, so there will be more info shared in that thread soon.

[Bern C]

Yeah, usually you can see the dero worms quite easily so just use a pipette to suck up any detritus that doesn't have worms in it (or simply poke it abit and any dero worms that are around will start swimming away).

Btw, dero worms reproduce by fission (they don't lay eggs), so a worm basically grows another worm from its other end, when both are long enough they detach and become 2 separate worms. Therefore there are actually no tiny baby worms, its either single full grown worms (1-2cm length) or longer worms (2-3cm length) that are in the process of developing another worm.

Yeah... I just removed some with a pipette. XD But I didn't see thoroughly if there's Dero inside or not. I think don't have ba or maybe 1 or 2. Thanks for your tips. =D

Oh... At first I thought there reproduce by eggs. Next time I will make sure I won't pour even a single Dero away.

Currently at its most optimal rate (ie. ample food and frequent water changes), the population can double every 3-4 days... but this requires constant work to do, as i need to check them regularly and feed more food as soon as they finish eating, and due to the high rate of feeding and growing (and waste production), i also have to change water frequently, at peak production i had to do 90% water change every day.

Speed of reproduction also depends on their starting numbers, each test culture i started with 20 worms (counted them individually), so it takes more time for them to multiply if starting with small quantities. Even with the population doubling every 3-4 days.... 20 > 40 > 80 > 160 etc, it still takes 2+ weeks of work to get enough worms to feed fishes, then each time i feed my fishes 80-100 worms, it drops the population of worms and i have to wait until they replenish again.

This sort of small culture is okay for those who only feed live food occasionally every few days (in my case its just for fun and watching the fishes eat). But for those who need a constant supply every day (ie. have many tanks or lots of fry to feed), will have to use much larger culture tubs and keep the culture going for many weeks and months until the dero worm population is much larger before starting to feed their fishes. That will need more space and more patience.

Their reproduction rate is highly dependent on food supply, the speed they grow is the speed they re-produce (since they multiply by fission). So if they are supplied food 24/7, they will sustain a high rate of reproduction... the only problem with feeding alot is the water quality drops faster, so have to do more water changes to keep up with the pace.

From what i've seen so far, dero worms can tolerate really crappy water quality (conditions whereby other creatures like moina and snails will die off, yet the dero worms are still alive), but their reproduction rate will tend to stall in such environments. An obvious sign is when the water starts getting stinky and the worms start to congregate in groups near the water surface. So they also do need good water conditions to sustain healthy growth rate and reproduction.

Basically the key is ample food + clean water = maximum reproduction rate, its all about balancing those 2 factors.

I'll be posting a more detailed thread with photos of my test culture, so there will be more info shared in that thread soon.

Ohh.... That is really quite fast.. Can compare with Daphnia or Moina.. But my Dero... XD I overlooked them as I am focusing on Moina and Daphnia. I only change water once every week as my water is quite clear as long as I don't disturb the detritus.
Hahaha, those Dero in my shrimp tank actually reproduce faster than my culture. But I left them there, so they will be alive if they don't swim around. Else will end up in my rasbora stomach.

Hmm.. If that i the case... Dero is much productive than Daphnia... =D You can be our Dero suppliers. Looking forward for your post.

[Bern C]

OMG~ Worms are back again... in my Walstad tank soil. They seem to look like Microfex??



My seed shrimp population is out of control. Cos my HOB will always wash some of the food down. My seed shrimps will be on frenzy mode going for those food on the substrate. My guppy doesn't seem to eat seed shrimp.

[Urban Aquaria]

OMG~ Worms are back again... in my Walstad tank soil. They seem to look like Microfex??



My seed shrimp population is out of control. Cos my HOB will always wash some of the food down. My seed shrimps will be on frenzy mode going for those food on the substrate. My guppy doesn't seem to eat seed shrimp.

Hmmm... i haven't seen my dero worms burrow into soil before, perhaps they might be another type of worm. Maybe tubifex? Can try digging out a few and see if they do the wiggle swimming patten in the water column.

Ostracods (aka seed shrimps) are tough creatures, fishes which are well fed don't bother as much with them due to their harder shells. You can try indostomus paradoxus, they specialize in hunting critters like ostracods and worms, so can help control the critter population.

[Urban Aquaria]

Ohh.... That is really quite fast.. Can compare with Daphnia or Moina.. But my Dero... XD I overlooked them as I am focusing on Moina and Daphnia. I only change water once every week as my water is quite clear as long as I don't disturb the detritus.
Hahaha, those Dero in my shrimp tank actually reproduce faster than my culture. But I left them there, so they will be alive if they don't swim around. Else will end up in my rasbora stomach.
Hmm.. If that i the case... Dero is much productive than Daphnia... =D You can be our Dero suppliers. Looking forward for your post.

Yeah, i guess your dero worms in the moina container are getting sufficient food to grow slowly but not alot to really grow fast, if the tank water is still clear after a week then most likely the food supply is quite minimal. In my cultures, i toss in more sinking wafers and shrimp pellets anytime i see them finishing eating (which can be as often as 2-3 times a day), thats how quick they consume the food to grow and reproduce, though it also means lots of waste produced too.

I would consider dero worms as more hardy and easier to keep than moina, but reproduction is still not as fast as moina... moina can reproduce much faster under optimal conditions (ie. lots of suspended good quality food and good water conditions), easily doubling their numbers overnight, but they also overpopulate and the extra food foul the water much faster so the culture crashes more easily, its a more tricky balancing act for small cultures.

With dero worms, they can survive under some neglect with less optimal water conditions and less food, so there is at least some buffer.... still got chance to recover a culture with water changes and extra feedings.

[tetrakid]

The trick with growing a goodly-sized Dero Worms lies in not feeding your fish with it until a sizable population is achieved.
Depleting the volume of the culture while it is still growing is counter-productive.

The objective should be to build up a culture capable of sustaining one's long-term needs, perhaps with a little to spare.

[Urban Aquaria]

The trick with growing a goodly-sized Dero Worms lies in not feeding your fish with it until a sizable population is achieved.
Depleting the volume of the culture while it is still growing is counter-productive.

The objective should be to build up a culture capable of sustaining one's long-term needs, perhaps with a little to spare.

Yeah, i'm not culturing for mass quantities at the moment, mainly still in the testing phase trying out different water conditions and feeding methods, hence the slower progress, due to the populations being split into a few smaller containers.

There is definitely a limit to their population growth based on tank size though, in small volume containers it can be quite tedious to constantly feed and do frequent water changes in order to see fast growth... so my next step for growing larger populations is to use a much larger shallow tub, then can feed alot and no need to do water changes so frequently (maybe only once a week) as the large water volume can sustain the bio-load and wouldn't foul so quickly.

Hmmm... multi-tier rack with 3ft length shallow tubs = dero worm farm?