Hi Bros,
My current tank set up (shrimp only):
Dimension: 50x32x34 crystal tank
Filter: Shiruba PF-1000 (720lph) + 2x3panel UGF (1litre EHEIM substrat each ontop) + 1litre EHEIM LAV + sponge filter
Soil+base: ADA 2 normal and powder + SL-Aqua Magic + SL-Aqua Purify
Fan: ANS3000 (temp 27-28degree)
Light: Aquazonic 16w x 2 tube
Set this up yesterday after 4pm and water was clear but today woke up the water is super milky (Suspected bacteria bloom). Should i wait for BB to colonized or should i do 50% water change everyday? Any kind soul able to advise me?
*Not going to use chiller as my bro is already using one for his 3ft tank, don't want unnecessary electricity bill increment.
That really milky. U setup yesterday, i dont think bacteria bloom so fast? Cant see your tank setup, maybe driftwood or any stuff that causes the milky? Yeah, do a water change. Continue to monitor and test the water parameter, shrimp are very sensitive to the water parameter.
Lol, I used to experience the same thing before. I used to change the water with clear tap water every other day (100%), but still the water turns cloudy.
Then later, when I became more experienced, I just leave the water alone for a few weeks and then it became crystal clear like magic, lol.
To have clear water. you must first season the water. In the meantime you can go cycling while you wait for the water to be clear in a few weeks time. Longer is even better, as it will be more stable. It is a good idea to put a tiny bit of food to for it to rot. Then it will naturally give off ammonia, which is when the water will be smelly. But that is natural process. When the bacteria (this bacteria is everywhere) has multiplied enough, they will enjoy the ammonia and at the same time convert them into nitrite. It can be a bit cheem, but actually it's no big deal. As long as you have patience and do the right things, you will season your tank and get very clear and healthy water in time to come.
Last edited by tetrakid; 25th May 2015 at 12:52.
LIFE IS UNBEARABLE WITHOUT A FISH TANK!!!
Thanks for the reply! Still unsure to perform water change anot! Wait for it to auto-clear (BB cultivated) or water change (to reduce toxic?).. some say wait for BB to grow/ tank to cycle, some say water change to reduce toxic.. so confusing
Yup, thats what i think too. The only thing in the current tank is filtration (1xHOB, 2xUFG with Eheim Substrat + 1x sponge filter hook up to air pump) with ADA 2 soil. The shop assistance told me to get SL-Aqua Magic + SL-Aqua Purify to "jump start" bacteria farming that's why i thought i might be due to that causing bacteria bloom over one night.Originally Posted by Dscheng
I think i will just leave it for a few days to see how things work out. I have plenty of time for it to cycle as i don't plan to put in CRS just for them to suffer and die.
Your under gravel filter (UGF) is basically breaking down the ADA aquasoil and pulling in all the soil dust and nutrients, and then spewing them directly into the water column.... that results in all the soil particles constantly being circulated around the tank, and all the excess ammonia and nutrients are flooding the water column.
The bacteria solution you dosed is also contributing to the bacterial bloom too, alot of excess bacteria feeding on the excess nutrients.
In such a setup, you will need to do a series of water changes to manually remove the suspended particles. Large and frequent water changes will also help to flush out most of the excess nutrients flooding the water column too.
Not sure if you did some research before starting the tank though, UGF filtration systems are usually not recommended to be used with ADA aquasoil in particular, mainly due to the faster breakdown of the soil and the very high level of nutrients released initially (which your shrimps have no use for anyways)... the soil is actually meant to grow plants, not really designed for shrimps, just happens that it can buffer pH for CRS so some shrimp breeders and keepers use it.
Nowadays, there are actually many other brands of aquasoil (ie. RAC, Mosura, BW, Up Aqua etc) which are designed specifically for shrimp and those types of soil don't break down as much and have very low nutrient levels, yet can also buffer the water pH as well. They would be more suitable for use with UGF systems.
Last edited by Urban Aquaria; 25th May 2015 at 14:46.
Hi Bro UA,
Thanks for the clarification.
In between the soil and UGF is a fine mesh media bag containing EHEIM Substrat media (1litre each). The soil was originally leftover (brand new) from my previous 2feet planted tank and i don't want it to go to waste. I did abit of research and found out that bro Eviltrain and Sun Pets Aquarium are both using this method as well so i thought it was ok
Nevertheless, I will do 50% water change daily for 1st week and see how things go. I have full API test kit to test out all parameter before even thinking of putting in shrimp
Yeah, its still okay to use ADA aquasoil with UGF systems... just that its abit more hassle to deal with the initial cloudiness and parameter spikes.Hi Bro UA,
Thanks for the clarification.
In between the soil and UGF is a fine mesh media bag containing EHEIM Substrat media (1litre each). The soil was originally leftover (brand new) from my previous 2feet planted tank and i don't want it to go to waste. I did abit of research and found out that bro Eviltrain and Sun Pets Aquarium are both using this method as well so i thought it was ok
Nevertheless, I will do 50% water change daily for 1st week and see how things go. I have full API test kit to test out all parameter before even thinking of putting in shrimp
Don't toss away the changed water though, recycle it to water your house plants, let them enjoy the rich nutrients from ADA.
eviltrain's UGF-in-container concept does minimise those issues though, the amount of soil he uses in the containers are relatively low compared to the tank size and water volume, so there is less initial ammonia flooding his tanks while still providing pH buffering (and he can change/refresh the soil + clean the UGF without overhauling the entire tanks too).
My dad's plant will get to enjoy the rich nutrients! HeheYeah, its still okay to use ADA aquasoil with UGF systems... just that its abit more hassle to deal with the initial cloudiness and parameter spikes.
Don't toss away the changed water though, recycle it to water your house plants, let them enjoy the rich nutrients from ADA.
eviltrain's UGF-in-container concept does minimise those issues though, the amount of soil he uses in the containers are relatively low compared to the tank size and water volume, so there is less initial ammonia flooding his tanks while still providing pH buffering (and he can change/refresh the soil + clean the UGF without overhauling the entire tanks too).
Wanted to use bro Eviltrain's idea completely but didn't managed to find the desired size i want (now i know why keep low level of soil). I will slow play the waiting game with my tank now.
Some update:
Did about 30% water change for straight 4 days. Below are the readings i got today:
TDS: 109
PH: 6.4
Ammonia: 6
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
GH: 7 drops of solution to turn greenish (first time use this, not sure whether am i correct anot)
KH: 6 drops of solution to turn yellowish (first time use this, not sure whether am i correct anot)
20150528_192728.jpg
The KH measurement result seems high for ADA Amazonia aquasoil, usually it should buffer to 0 or just 1. Maybe do another test a few days later and see if it stabilizes.
Btw, if you want to flush out the excess ammonia being released from the aquasoil, try doing 90% water changes daily (especially with your much larger ratio of soil), that will help to reduce the ammonia levels faster.
Can i just top up with tap water then add in prime? The reason i perform 30% water change daily is because i only have a "red pail" and i "prime" it together with airstone overnight. Heard that tap water will kill bacteria, please correct me if i am wrong.
Since you are using UGF and sponge filter, to avoid direct tap water affecting the beneficial bacteria population, just use the pail to remove most of the water first (make a few trips), then refill the tank again with the pail (dose prime into the pail while filling it with water, that will neutralize the chlorine and chloramine within seconds).Can i just top up with tap water then add in prime? The reason i perform 30% water change daily is because i only have a "red pail" and i "prime" it together with airstone overnight. Heard that tap water will kill bacteria, please correct me if i am wrong.
If you have a small pail, then you'll have to make many more trips when doing large water changes... so maybe can consider getting larger pails.
Your tank already has a sponge filter, so that should create sufficient surface agitation to aerate the tank water.
Thanks for the advice! I will change it tonight with the method you gave.
When I had my Luohan fish I bought a big roll of water hose for water changing as my tank is located far from the bathroom.Since you are using UGF and sponge filter, to avoid direct tap water affecting the beneficial bacteria population, just use the pail to remove most of the water first (make a few trips), then refill the tank again with the pail (dose prime into the pail while filling it with water, that will neutralize the chlorine and chloramine within seconds).
If you have a small pail, then you'll have to make many more trips when doing large water changes... so maybe can consider getting larger pails.
That time, I needed to do frequent water changes because the big Luohan will scatter broken dried shrimps all over the place whenever he's being fed. He will gobble up a lot and then when the hard sharp shrimps poked his mouth he will spit it out and then gobble it in again, thus fouling up the tank water.
Same thing when I kept goldfish, but for goldfish, the problem is their poo. Goldfish can eat non-stop and I liked to fatten them by overfeeding. So you can imagine the foulness of the water. That's why I needed a water hose to change the water every day. A long hose is useful for siphoning out water and then filling the tank again. No toiling with heavy buckets and no spilling of water on the floor.
I have piping long enough (13m lol) to reach to toilet to drain/ topup water the water from tank. I guess i will have to de-chlorine pail by pail as i previously used one red pail to age it overnight (to play safe).When I had my Luohan fish I bought a big roll of water hose for water changing as my tank is located far from the bathroom.
That time, I needed to do frequent water changes because the big Luohan will scatter broken dried shrimps all over the place whenever he's being fed. He will gobble up a lot and then when the hard sharp shrimps poked his mouth he will spit it out and then gobble it in again, thus fouling up the tank water.
Same thing when I kept goldfish, but for goldfish, the problem is their poo. Goldfish can eat non-stop and I liked to fatten them by overfeeding. So you can imagine the foulness of the water. That's why I needed a water hose to change the water every day. A long hose is useful for siphoning out water and then filling the tank again. No toiling with heavy buckets and no spilling of water on the floor.
Yeah, tetrakid's method is very useful if you have to do frequent large water changes... just clip the hose to your tank and siphon the water out to a WC drain, much easier than hauling pails. Wrap some netting on the hose end so that it doesn't accidently suck up the soil granules too.
With fish that pollute the tank heavily every day, such as overfed goldfish, I had no choice but to use fresh tap water for daily 100% water changes. No time to season any water, create bacteria or dechlorinate. The chlorine/chloramine will kill microorganisms too. In my experience, as long as the fish get clean water every day plus heavy aeration, they would be acclimatised to the chlorine/chloramine (We can drink our tap water too). It is Ammonia and Nitrite from foul rotting water that kills fish fast.
But of course I wouldn't recommend you do that, because that is not the way to develop your fish-keeping skills. You should follow the proper methods.
Some good and bad updates of my tank:
20150610_053742.jpg
Took this today 5.30am lol.
TDS:153
KH: 1
GH: 6
Ammonia: 6 (till now still never change o.o)
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
Temp: 24deg
Keeping CBS/ BKK/ Blue blot/ RCS/ Blue rili? and green shrimp. Found berried RCS and green shrimp yesterday evening!
By the way, i have installed a chiller last week (decomm my planted tank) and set it up together with EcoPro300. It was doing great (19mins kickin, 1hr45mins kickout). But on sunday i connected it out to SS pipe to chill my 2ft tank, the kick in (55mins) kick out (1hr 10mins) time became quite jialat. I was advised to increase my flow rate to at least 1000-1200 lph.
From what i read, if flow rate too low, i thought the kick in kick out cycle will be even shorter (5mins - 10mins)?
My set up now: 50cm tank > Eco Pro 300 > Teco TK-150 chiller > SS pipe in 2ft tank > 50cm tank.
*Thanks bro Alan for all the setup guidance! Appreciate it alot
20150610_055134.jpg
Current tank set up (Not sure why the picture auto-rotated)
Looks like alot of ammonia is still being released into the water column and the beneficial bacteria populations still have not established yet. I guess you just have to do more water changes to flush out the excess ammonia.
Also check to see if anything is dosed or added in your tank that could somehow be inhibiting the beneficial bacteria growth, as by default over the past 2 weeks, you should at least be seeing some signs of ammonia decreasing by now. Maybe something might be affecting the beneficial bacteria population.
As for the chiller, i guess its expected to see it kick in for longer periods of time due to the increased amount of cooling work required with the additional stainless steel coil in the 2ft tank. Basically more water volume to cool = more kick in time to do the work.
Wow your ammonia is very high, need to keep 0 at all time. Be patient, you setup this tank less than a month right?
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