Help needed for beginner with unhealthy fish

[Boon Kiat Ong]

My guppies seems stick to the bottom of tank most of the time. Not sure what to do. Every water change, they seems like moving fast and very tense for 1/2 day and back to the bottom again. Several died for the past 2 weeks. I have used fungus treatment and it does not help. One of the dead fish has cotton like fungus at mouth. Now the rest seems unhealthy. Water testing nitrite 0.25-0.5. Nitrate 0.5. Ph 7. Unfortunately I don't have ammonia tester but regular water change every 2 days. My tank is only 8 gallon with 4 male guppies. What should I do now ? Thanks in advance

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[Urban Aquaria]

I guess your tank is only recently setup? If your water tests are showing nitrite readings, then it means your tank is probably still in the process of cycling.... quite likely there are also ammonia levels in the tank too, since the cycle is not completed yet.

The toxic parameters and fluctuating water conditions are weakening the fishes immune systems so they succumb to infections more easily.

Since you already have the fishes in the tank, just have to do more frequent and larger water changes to help reduce the toxic parameters. Use good quality de-chlorinator solutions like Seachem Prime to treat the tap water before water changes (Prime detoxifies ammonia, nitrite and nitrates for 24-48 hours). Hopefully all that can help the fishes survive until the tank is cycled.

[Boon Kiat Ong]

I guess your tank is only recently setup? If your water tests are showing nitrite readings, then it means your tank is probably still in the process of cycling.... quite likely there are also ammonia levels in the tank too, since the cycle is not completed yet.

The toxic parameters and fluctuating water conditions are weakening the fishes immune systems so they succumb to infections more easily.

Since you already have the fishes in the tank, just have to do more frequent and larger water changes to help reduce the toxic parameters. Use good quality de-chlorinator solutions like Seachem Prime to treat the tap water before water changes (Prime detoxifies ammonia, nitrite and nitrates for 24-48 hours). Hopefully all that can help the fishes survive until the tank is cycled.

I just setup about a month ago. I am using API Stress Coat and Stress Zyme every water change every 3 days. The fish will be very active when food is available. Half an hour late they will be back to the corner................stress !!!
I would like to setup a planted tank soon but not sure whether I should as this may be even more complicated.

[Dscheng]

If your water parameter nirite is 0.25 or even 0.1 sometime is very wrong with you tank. Like what UA say your tank water is not fully cycle yet. Be patient, let it cycle longer.
By the way, i dont really trust product that will speed up cycle process.

[Bern C]

If the tails and fin are rotting.. most probably there's high level ammonia that causing the burn. As what shifu UA and Dscheng said... the main cause is due to the water parameter that stress and weaken the fish immunity. Try not to dose the fungus treatment or other medication into the main tank as some of the medication will kills bacteria which includes nitrifying bacteria.

[Boon Kiat Ong]

I see all these symptoms in the main tank or my only tank. If I don't treat it bacteria will still slowly go away ?

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[Bern C]

Kinda in a dilemma if that is your only tank. @_@ Cos you need some old aquarium water and filter to setup quarantine tank else you will probably face nitrite/nitrate issue. I not sure about the result of using non-fully cycled water. Medication like malachite green/methylene blue/potassium permanganate etc.. kills bacteria so best to treat them in a separate tank. Methylene blue can be used to treat ammonia stress so probably don't require a cycled quarantine tank.
Alternate is salt/medication bath, but I don't think it's effective for the current situation as you need to solve the main cause, which is your tank. Unless you bath them in a container and put them into a quarantine tank.

Or you just make sure those treatment you dose doesn't kill bacteria... else your cycle will take a long time to complete. Also.. I not sure if those aquasoil will affect the treatment. XD Need some enlightenment too.
As what shifu UA stated, do frequent WC and dose prime. Once your tank is fixed, probably your fishes will be fixed too or easier to fix.

XD Just my 2cents... I am not an expert. Wait for shifus answer. =D

[Urban Aquaria]

Yeah, fungus and bacteria are ever present in all tank systems, fishes that are stressed or weakened tend to be alot more susceptible to them.

Once the tank is cycled and the parameters are stable, clean water conditions should improve the fishes ability to naturally ward off fungus and bacterial infections.

[Boon Kiat Ong]

Ok will get a small plastic tank to do treatment in this case. I will use existing tank water and put medication. That should eliminate ammonia right ? Existing tank, i will be keeping it fishless until reading become normal. I am left with 2 guppies only now out of 4. Sad sad

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[Bern C]

Ok will get a small plastic tank to do treatment in this case. I will use existing tank water and put medication. That should eliminate ammonia right ? Existing tank, i will be keeping it fishless until reading become normal. I am left with 2 guppies only now out of 4. Sad sad

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You need to setup a decent QT too and take care of the hygiene of the QT. If you are using methylene blue, it can treats ammonia/nitrite poisoning. I am not sure about the rest of the medication. Hope this sites helps:
http://www.fishchannel.com/fish-health/aquarium-fish-mouth-fungus.aspx

http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/Fi...ylene-Blue.htm

Another alternative is do daily or every other day 30-50% WC, dose prime and beneficial bacteria product.

[tetrakid]

You need to setup a decent QT too and take care of the hygiene of the QT. If you are using methylene blue, it can treats ammonia/nitrite poisoning. I am not sure about the rest of the medication. Hope this sites helps:
http://www.fishchannel.com/fish-health/aquarium-fish-mouth-fungus.aspx

http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/Fi...ylene-Blue.htm
Another alternative is do daily or every other day 30-50% WC, dose prime and beneficial bacteria product.

If a fish's sensitive (very) internal organs and delicate tissues are damaged by severe ammonia or nitrite poisoning, it is extremely difficult to recover, even with the best medication.

[Bern C]

If a fish's sensitive (very) internal organs and delicate tissues are damaged by severe ammonia or nitrite poisoning, it is extremely difficult to recover, even with the best medication.

Shifu tetra~ Yeah.. We will do all we can and the rest depends on the fish... Depends on the among of poisoning and the fishes, some can tolerate more while some die form just a ammonia spike. XD At least we prolong the life... maybe weeks months or years.

[tetrakid]

Shifu tetra~ Yeah.. We will do all we can and the rest depends on the fish... Depends on the among of poisoning and the fishes, some can tolerate more while some die form just a ammonia spike. XD At least we prolong the life... maybe weeks months or years.

Yes Bern,
When I keep fish, I always aim to keep them healthy for years. If my fish develops dropsy for instance,
I will not attempt to cure it, unless there's a 'fish clinic' which is willing to board it while it is being treated.
Otherwise I will carry out a quick "ice-and-freezing-water" treatment to eliminate their suffering.

[Bern C]

Yes Bern,
When I keep fish, I always aim to keep them healthy for years. If my fish develops dropsy for instance,
I will not attempt to cure it, unless there's a 'fish clinic' which is willing to board it while it is being treated.
Otherwise I will carry out a quick "ice-and-freezing-water" treatment to eliminate their suffering.

Yeah.. dropsy is one of the worst sickness I ever faced... rarely successfully cure them. @_@

[Boon Kiat Ong]

Added Prime for 2 days in a row. Fish behave normal but nitrite still showing 0.5. Will do wc tomorrow. How long does bacteria for nitrite takes to build ?

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[Urban Aquaria]

Added Prime for 2 days in a row. Fish behave normal but nitrite still showing 0.5. Will do wc tomorrow. How long does bacteria for nitrite takes to build ?

It depends on the tank setup, filtration/bio-media efficiency and bio-load... but typically it takes around 4-8 weeks for most tanks to achieve a stable initial cycle (some slower, some quicker).

[Bern C]

Yup... as what shifu UA said.
For cycling you need source of ammonia, ph of 7-8(if lower you will have more ammonium) and temp. 25-30*C.
Then after days or 1week+, you will see ammonia level drop and nitrite increase. This means bacteria that turns ammonia to nitrite has built up.
Another days or 1week, you will see nitrite drop and nitrate increase. This means bacteria that turns nitrite to nirate has built up.
XD The tricky question is how fast. It depends if you have seed bacteria. The amount of bacteria you wanna build or in another words the amount of ammonia present in the tank.(Bacteria needs food to grow too.) Also how much bacteria your tank and filter can house.(Bacteria needs a roof too. More surface area = more houses)
Most of the aquasoil has source of ammonia which helps in the cycling, but how much I am not sure. Usually when we are using aquasoil, we don't add in source of ammonia. Then after completed the cycle, we happily thought that we can add in lot of livestock but days later... livestock died 1 by 1. XD Bacteria needs time to grow too though they multiply fast. With an sudden increase of bio-load, including left over food, the waste is too huge for the bacteria to handle which leads to ammonia spike. So always introduce livestock slowly. <-- XD Just additional info. Don't misunderstood, I am not saying 4guppy and 8g tank is too fast. You are doing it right.
For nitrate, you can only rely on WC or plants. Though nitrate isn't deadly but it do harms your fish too in the long run. It also depends on the sensitivity of the fish, some no problem in more than 100ppm.

Hope this link helps:
http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/st...epoisoning.htm

Fast growing plants, like hornwort do helps in absorbing excess nutrients too. XD I tried Walstad tank with fast growing plants to jump start my tank and adding some livestock without cycling.

Just my 2cents. =D All my knowledge comes from AQ shifus, helping them to sum up. XD Hope I didn't miss anything.

[tetrakid]

......
Just my 2cents. =D All my knowledge comes from AQ shifus, helping them to sum up. XD Hope I didn't miss anything.

I have full faith that one day you will become the shifu of Daphnia culturing.

[tetrakid]

If your water parameter nirite is 0.25 or even 0.1 sometime is very wrong with you tank. Like what UA say your tank water is not fully cycle yet. Be patient, let it cycle longer.
By the way, i dont really trust product that will speed up cycle process.

Seasoning a tank is worth the long wait of months. Different types of bacteria build up in stages.
Adding speed-up products is always a no-no for me too, unless one is already very experienced in seasoning.
With experience, one will know the ins and outs at the back of the hand.

[Boon Kiat Ong]

Bern C, thanks for the valuable advice. I think mine is still at nitrite stage. Ammonia and nitrate almost zero at the moment. Will do test everyday until it comes down. If 1 week still the same, meaning the surface might not be enough ? I am using one hob filter at the moment. I have those ceramic and dead corals in the filter given by fish shop

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