Help ID these fish

[Griffith DreamWalker]

Hey guys, today I just bought a pair of fish from Y618. Apparently the shopkeepers said that these were 'pipefish'/'toothpick'/'freshwater seahorse'. The label of the tank said that these are "Baby Toothpicks" and I assume that these were pipefish(as that's what the seller claimed) and they seemed rather similar to my Gulf pipefish- though much smaller at around an inch.

However, when I got back home to inspect the fishes closely, they turned out NOT to be pipefishes, but some other strange, seemingly-fused jaw fish. Anyone that can identify or go and check out the stock at Y618 to ID this fish will be greatly appreciated as online search yields nothing of worth. I will post more close ups on the new 'Baby Toothpicks' once I get the time.

Check out the differences between these fishes.

Baby Toothpick fishes


Juvenile Gulf Pipefish, hunting amongst the Salvinia.

Thanks in advance.

[TheAquarist]

Indostromus?

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[Griffith DreamWalker]

Thanks for the tip bro!

After further research, it seems that I have gotten a pair of Indostomus, though I still can't tell what species is it. Anyone who can tell what species this is, I'll be happy to try to get a few more pictures on these.

[AQMS]

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species...mus-paradoxus/
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species...us-crocodilus/

[Griffith DreamWalker]

I already read those pages on Indostomus, but thank you anyways. c: I honestly still can't tell the species yet as its still a juvenile and has a tendency to change colours. The light, pale brown you see in the above picture is what it changed to due to the bright lighting. Later on these two faded back into a darker brown and would switch depending on their surroundings and mood... So yeah- species is still undetermined. :s

Pictures on my fish will be posted once I'm at home.

[Griffith DreamWalker]

[Urban Aquaria]

I have these fishes in my tanks too, been keeping them for the past 2+ years. They are great micro-predators and help to keep critter populations under control.

Here is a nice macro shot:



It is indeed tough to differentiate between the 2 variants, i think i probably have both... but by default i just refer to all of them as indostromus paradoxus.

Btw, they will only grow to max 3cm at most, way smaller than your other pipefishes.

[Griffith DreamWalker]

Great shot, plus nice photography you've got going on.

Yep, these beauties (like pipefish) are wonderful for a planted tank if you want people to concentrate on the plants and less on the inhabitants.

I'll call my species Indostomus Crocodilus as I have noticed some black bars forming on their fins. I'll wait till they're full grown before looking at them again though.


Thanks for the heads up, I was pretty shocked that these ended up being true nano fish- my pipefish is easily triple that size. :' ) I plan to get a seperate tank to breed these beauties.

Have you ever bred them before?

[Urban Aquaria]

Thanks for the heads up, I was pretty shocked that these ended up being true nano fish- my pipefish is easily triple that size. :' ) I plan to get a seperate tank to breed these beauties.

Have you ever bred them before?

So far i haven't seen their fry appear in my tanks yet, though since mine are all kept in community tanks with other fishes, any tiny fry that were born would probably get eaten up.

Yeah, a species-only breeding tank would be great for those fishes, it'll be quite interesting to observe their breeding process.

[Griffith DreamWalker]

So far i haven't seen their fry appear in my tanks yet, though since mine are all kept in community tanks with other fishes, any tiny fry that were born would probably get eaten up.

Yeah, a species-only breeding tank would be great for those fishes, it'll be quite interesting to observe their breeding process.

Too bad then, I've heard they like breeding in empty ceramic pots and caves, so maybe a lava rock+ dense cover should be sufficient to ensure survival? Do you add ferts in your Indostomus or pipefish tank? Like Excel or Flourish etc.?

[Urban Aquaria]

Too bad then, I've heard they like breeding in empty ceramic pots and caves, so maybe a lava rock+ dense cover should be sufficient to ensure survival? Do you add ferts in your Indostomus or pipefish tank? Like Excel or Flourish etc.?

Thats should work... i've read about people putting PVC tubes or charcoal tubes into their tanks to encourage breeding too.

I do dose fertilizers and run Co2 injection in my planted tanks, so far these fishes seem to be okay in those environments.

[Griffith DreamWalker]

Thats should work... i've read about people putting PVC tubes or charcoal tubes into their tanks to encourage breeding too.

I do dose fertilizers and run Co2 injection in my planted tanks, so far these fishes seem to be okay in those environments.

That sounds plausible, however I feel that it wouldn't look 'natural' compared to a pure rock/wood/leaf litter/ moss combo. How about your inverts then? Like if you've used Excel with Nerite snails without any ill effects?

[Urban Aquaria]

That sounds plausible, however I feel that it wouldn't look 'natural' compared to a pure rock/wood/leaf litter/ moss combo. How about your inverts then? Like if you've used Excel with Nerite snails without any ill effects?

So far, i've not encountered any issues with dosing Excel in my tanks which contain shrimps and snails... i guess its all a matter of dosage ratio and plant take up rate. If the dosage is at recommended levels and there are sufficient plants to use the chemicals, it will be relatively safe and not build up to toxic levels.

On the otherhand, if its overdosed and there are insufficient plants to use it, then the accumulation of chemicals may affect some of the more sensitive livestock.

If unsure, its best to just start with quarter or half dosage, see if the livestock are okay, then gradually increase dosages in stages.

[Griffith DreamWalker]

So far, i've not encountered any issues with dosing Excel in my tanks which contain shrimps and snails... i guess its all a matter of dosage ratio and plant take up rate. If the dosage is at recommended levels and there are sufficient plants to use the chemicals, it will be relatively safe and not build up to toxic levels.

On the otherhand, if its overdosed and there are insufficient plants to use it, then the accumulation of chemicals may affect some of the more sensitive livestock.

If unsure, its best to just start with quarter or half dosage, see if the livestock are okay, then gradually increase dosages in stages.

That makes sense, plus Excel does seem to be a promising subsitute for C02. I guess I'll try this out once my Indostomus are acclimated and a new cycled tank all for them.

Thanks for the help UA.

PS: Are chillers necessary to grow moss? Like Erect/Christmas/Fissidens moss types as I'm planning for a mossy lowtech tank with rocks and hiding places for my current fishes but chillers are definitely off the budget for me. :' )

[Urban Aquaria]

PS: Are chillers necessary to grow moss? Like Erect/Christmas/Fissidens moss types as I'm planning for a mossy lowtech tank with rocks and hiding places for my current fishes but chillers are definitely off the budget for me. :' )

So far, i have mostly grown java moss, christmas moss and fissidens in indoor tanks at normal room temperatures (28-30°C)... even at temperatures up to 32°C in my outdoor tanks and containers, they still grow well.

I guess if you have the budget and space to run a chiller, its definitely a bonus. But if not, most mosses should still be able to adapt and grow in warmer environments.

[Griffith DreamWalker]

So far, i have mostly grown java moss, christmas moss and fissidens in indoor tanks at normal room temperatures (28-30°C)... even at temperatures up to 32°C in my outdoor tanks and containers, they still grow well.

I guess if you have the budget and space to run a chiller, its definitely a bonus. But if not, most mosses should still be able to adapt and grow in warmer environments.

My temperature's always at 28°c, so I guess it'll be fine to grow moss. Do you have any tips on maintaining a healthy bunch of moss?

[Urban Aquaria]

My temperature's always at 28°c, so I guess it'll be fine to grow moss. Do you have any tips on maintaining a healthy bunch of moss?

Mosses are relatively easy plants to keep so not much special tips on them. I guess you just have to supply them with some light and nutrients (their basic growth demands are quite low)... more light, Co2 and nutrients can help to improve growth speed, but its not a necessity.

So far mosses have been one of the most fuss-free plants in my tanks, i just tie them on rocks and wood, then leave them alone to grow. Whether in high-tech of low-tech or outdoor setups (sometimes even left floating in loose clumps in a plastic container for months), they still grow.

[Griffith DreamWalker]

Mosses are relatively easy plants to keep so not much special tips on them. I guess you just have to supply them with some light and nutrients (their basic growth demands are quite low)... more light, Co2 and nutrients can help to improve growth speed, but its not a necessity.

So far mosses have been one of the most fuss-free plants in my tanks, i just tie them on rocks and wood, then leave them alone to grow. Whether in high-tech of low-tech or outdoor setups (sometimes even left floating in loose clumps in a plastic container for months), they still grow.

That's comforting. I've never really aquascaped with moss only, so hopefully the tank will be fuss free. I assume that care for Fissidens moss(both US and Mini) are also the same? They're rather expensive and rare- I'd hate to kill it by accident. Also, do you have any experience with Mini Bolbitis? I ever saw some for sale, but information on its care is virtually nothing of use(as I can't find any proper sites...) Maybe some Mini Bolbitis with the moss will look more intresting.

[Urban Aquaria]

That's comforting. I've never really aquascaped with moss only, so hopefully the tank will be fuss free. I assume that care for Fissidens moss(both US and Mini) are also the same? They're rather expensive and rare- I'd hate to kill it by accident. Also, do you have any experience with Mini Bolbitis? I ever saw some for sale, but information on its care is virtually nothing of use(as I can't find any proper sites...) Maybe some Mini Bolbitis with the moss will look more intresting.

Yeah, US fissidens and mini fissidens have the same care requirements (main difference is the size of their fronds)... i guess the reason why they tend to be expensive is due to their naturally slow growth rate and high demand amongst aquascapers.

I have kept some mini bolbitis before (based on what it was labelled as at the LFS), but somehow didn't manage to successfully grow it out nicely, the batch i had melted away overtime and couldn't recover (even though all the other plants in the tank were growing well), so i guess it probably required more specific tank conditions. Probably thats one of the reasons why its more costly and quite uncommon too.

If you do get a chance to get some mini bolbitis, its worth a try growing them, see if you can have better success.

[Griffith DreamWalker]

Yeah, US fissidens and mini fissidens have the same care requirements (main difference is the size of their fronds)... i guess the reason why they tend to be expensive is due to their naturally slow growth rate and high demand amongst aquascapers.

I have kept some mini bolbitis before (based on what it was labelled as at the LFS), but somehow didn't manage to successfully grow it out nicely, the batch i had melted away overtime and couldn't recover (even though all the other plants in the tank were growing well), so i guess it probably required more specific tank conditions. Probably thats one of the reasons why its more costly and quite uncommon too.

If you do get a chance to get some mini bolbitis, its worth a try growing them, see if you can have better success.

True. Fissidens are lovely in a planted aquaria- mayhaps one day I'll save some cash to get some. Is it cheaper to get in LFS or from a hobbyist?

That sounds intimidating. ×-× I know that C328 has some occasionally, so maybe you can pop by there if you want to have another go at the Mini Bolbitis? I guess I won't be touching such expensive plants...for now. Have you had any experience with Narrow Leaf Java Ferns? They look like a good addition to a low tech mossy tank, but their pricing is high and caresheet is nil.

Thanks for all the help again! Really appreciate it!