Need advise on 120x60x50 crystal tank

[Ivan Choo]

I will recommend phosphate and nitrate test kits as essential. I use API test kits. It's important not to let your P and N bottom out, else slew of problems will surface. I've kept my P at 0.5~1 ppm and gsa never came back. Testing N gives you good insight about plant nutrient uptakes and also the Nirate produce by faunas. I find N is a huge variable in the tank, many factors will affect it. Testing N really helps you to learn about your tanks ecosystem. Maybe until you're comfortable reading plants and faunas you'll use less of the test kits. But at the beginning stage I find them to be a great learning tool.

[Realcaster]

Thank you. I will get that test kit

[Realcaster]

Don't worry about the rotalas. I realize they have a tendency to creep at the initial stage. Just trim them aggressively and they will start to grow side shoots. The more you trim the bushier they get. Don't be afraid to trim them as they are fast grower. It'll come to a point where you wish they grow slower lol. But it's a nice plant to have! I remembered my initial trim I cut really low, left about 2 nodes above substrate and replanted the tops. Thereafter you'll find them growing at different pace, just left them grow out and trim again. Repeat the process until they branch and fill in the gaps nicely. It takes awhile but the process is really fun, eventually you'll be able to sculpt them. It'll also come to a stage where you won't have space to replant the tops, just give them away. Don't plant them too closely I keep them about 1cm apart for individual stems. Some people will plant a few stems together but I didn't go with that.

thank you Ivan. I stumble across another species of rotala green that have translucent leaves, they are different from the regular Rotala Green or Nan Ji Shan. Their stems are similar to Rotala Red, but will never turn red or pink. Any idea what species is that?

[Ivan Choo]

Sorry no idea. Maybe others can weigh in. A photo will definitely help.

[Realcaster]

Here is the pic
image.jpg

[jackychun]

The leaves look quite similar to my Heteranthera zosterifolia?




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[Realcaster]

Lol, indeed it looks alike with close up. Heteranthera zosterifolia stem with is 5-12 cm, whereas that rotala green stem width is like regular rotala rotundifolia with stem with of 1.5-2 cm.

i will wait for it to grow taller to see what species it is, I have regular rotala green in the same tank and it definitely don't look alike. It looks close to rotala red but it is all Jade green... Hmmmmm

[Realcaster]

I will recommend phosphate and nitrate test kits as essential. I use API test kits. It's important not to let your P and N bottom out, else slew of problems will surface. I've kept my P at 0.5~1 ppm and gsa never came back. Testing N gives you good insight about plant nutrient uptakes and also the Nirate produce by faunas. I find N is a huge variable in the tank, many factors will affect it. Testing N really helps you to learn about your tanks ecosystem. Maybe until you're comfortable reading plants and faunas you'll use less of the test kits. But at the beginning stage I find them to be a great learning tool.

i finally got my hand on the phosphate and nitrate test kit, after testing, I would estimate the nitrate at 80ppm and my P is at 0.1~0.2ppm.

is my phosphate too low? Should I start dosing P?

[Ivan Choo]

A tell tale sign of low P is GSA growing on your Anubias or excessive GSA on your tank walls. You can try to maintain it at 0.5ppm and work upwards if required. Sometimes even higher level is required depending on uptake rates. I maintain my P at 0.5 ~ 1ppm, and sometimes it can deplete in 2~3 days.

I try to maintain 10~30ppm range for N. Additional consideration is the nitrate contributed by the fishes (waste, food). This will change overtime as your tank matures, plants grow and needs more ferts, heavy trim reduces fert updates, more fishes introduced and increase Nitrate production, etc... Sometimes you may find your system is self-sustaining on N, and skip N dosing altogether. Sometimes plants completes transition to submerged form and enters a growth spurt and hence spike in N requirement. N is the 2nd most used element besides carbon (CO2) and it's a mobile nutrient, so deficiency tends to show up quickly. Good news is that it's also quick to fix IMO. However, I will half (or lower) your current nitrate level, for fish well-being. Nitrate can build up quickly especially for new tanks, so I'll continue to keep a close watch for weeks to come until it stabilises.

I recently learn from another thread that one can bring out redness is some plant species by limiting N. I think that's pretty advanced stuff but definitely good challenge to attempt when you're more comfortable.

I use E.I. recommendations as baseline, and try to adjust base on my observation on growth vs uptake vs algae. Find the balance and stick to it, it's really tough and I'm learning it.

Also, adjust your ferts slowly and wait a few days to a week to observe. This is especially so for new tanks. Plants take awhile to show the effect.

Finally, regardless of light/co2/fert/equipment that you throw at your tank, nothing can replace the routine of good old water-changes. Fish and plants love it. Besides flushing out excess Nitrate and accumulated ferts, it also purges the dissolved organics. Don't slag on it.

[Realcaster]

Hello Ivan thank you for your advise. I have just up my K and P. I increased my P from 0.5 and than to 1.0ppm now will increase it to 2ppm.

i am going to attemp EI dosing too. My guide will be as follows

CO2 range 25-30 ppm
NO3 range 20-30 ppm
PO4 range 2.0-3.0 ppm
K+ range 20-30 ppm
Fe 0.2-0.5ppm or higher
GH range 3-5 degrees ~ 50ppm or higher
KH range 3-5

Do let me know if you felt it's no correct .

[Ivan Choo]

It looks pretty much standard E.I. dosing. However there are a few points for you to consider:

• E.I. guideline is designed for high tech heavily planted tank. I remember Tom Barr mentioning by his definition of heavily planted tank is the entire base is covered 90% with plants (you shouldn't see much substrate). However, you'll notice that your cosmetic sand and hardscape takes up quite substantial base area, so your plant mass may be on the lighter side. You may want to consider lowering your baseline.
• Finding the right dosing regime means to constantly adjust dosage and observe for effect. Have a clear strategy, to start low and increase, or to start high and reduce. Else, you may find yourself going all over the place and have no clear indicator. Remember, plant takes time to adjust, so if you find yourself adjusting dosage at every dosing interval you're doing it wrong! Adjust and take time to observe. Either way works but I'd prefer to go with an incremental strategy (see below).
• I noticed when plants complete their transition, they are able to utilise more nutrients hence accelerated growth. This means at initial phase nutrient uptake is not at it's optimal, and this is where an incremental strategy shines. BTW, plants can take up to 3 weeks to fully transit.
• Incremental strategy works for light control too. This is where LED lights with dimmer feature is a godsend.
• I dose Fe at small dosage but higher frequency, as Fe tends to precipitates out quicker than the others. E.g. 2x Macro, 2x Micro, 4x Fe spread across a week. I figure there is no hard and fuss rules, I've read people don't bother with Fe, whatever works for you. Remember do not dose Fe together with Phosphate at the same time, they will react and you'll mess up your water. If I do dose them on the same day, I make sure they are at least an hour apart (p.s. my tank is small, so YMMV).
• Fert dosing can be a red herring. Many times the issue is CO2. Remember carbon is the No. 1 used element for plants. Upping CO2 bubble counts doesn't neccessarily solve it. Ensure good dissolution and good flow. It's trickier than you think.

Disclaimer: I am not an expert and is fairly new to the hobby, just sharing what I've learnt and observed. Anyone with better advise or criticism, I'm all ears!

[Realcaster]

Thanks for the advice, I drop by EcoCity during lunch time again to buy some fert, got KH2PO4 for K & P. and FE-EDTA. These are dry fert, I am attempting to dilute them into liquid fert for easier dosing.

I am using some online calculator, For KH2PO4, every 100g to 1000ml water for 300 Litre tank, 10ml of the mixture will raise my P by 2.3ppm. that would be sweet. Now the question is, will I be able to dilute 100g of dry fert to 1000ml of water? :P

Are you dosing it dry or liquid? what is the usual practice?

[Ivan Choo]

You'll need to check the solubility of KH2PO4, my guess is tough luck. I can't remember my mix but I do know the ratio is much lesser than that. I'll check and revert.

Plants don't care dry or premix, whatever works for you. If I have such a big tank like yours, I'd go with dry dosing. Less hassle IMO.

[Ivan Choo]

Just checked my notes, I'm recycling my Seachem bottles so the capacity is 500ml. I dissolve 12gram of KH2PO4 and each dosing is 5ml (one Seachem bottle cap) which yields 1.3ppm of PO4 per dosage. I dose 2 times a week, at one time when my plant density was higher I went with 3x per week. My tank is 2ft 60L.

I can imagine for your 300L to reach 2ppm you'll just need to dry dose 1gm of KH2PO4. That's like a pinch, I think it's doable.

FYI I'm dry dosing Seachem Equilibrium for K + Ca + Mg, I either dissolve it in fresh water during water change, or sometimes I just dry dose 'em at an area with constant flow. It dissolves fine.

[Realcaster]

I didn't know seachem equilibrium comes in dry fert. Interesting.

now I have the following test kit
- NO3
- K
- P
- Fe
- PH
- KH and GH

It's a lot of money

[Ivan Choo]

LOL! What K & Fe test kit did you buy? From my understanding K test kits are expensive. You don't really need to test everything, but it's nice to have, like I said, its good for learning.

Seachem Equilibrium only comes in dry form. http://www.seachem.com/equilibrium.php

[Realcaster]

Yeah, the Seaview uncle was like, you testing K? Smiling while wiping the dust off the Box

[Realcaster]

Just measured my nitrate today... It drop to 25ppm and my P dropped from 1.5ppm to 0.25ppm today. So my tank up take rate for P is about 1.5ppm every 2 days.

i believe with the P dosage, and K dosage, it is encouraging the take up rate of NO3

I have to dose all 3 again tonight. Pretty amazing

i switch on my UV 18W for 9 hrs last night, will that affect any of the reading? One thing for sure is the tank is super clear today

[Realcaster]

In other threads quite a while back, I was asking about a strain of Rotala Rotundifolia which give out more intense red than the regular Rotala Pink/Red that we usually see in LFS. It was like 1 week ago and under high light, some stalks starts to have horizontal growth behaviors like Rotala Green and it have 2 leaves per node. After doing lots of research on the Internet and asking around, I am pretty sure what I have is Rotala "Colorata". Below is the pics. I am still trying to propagate it and does explain its messiness.

image.jpgimage.jpg

[Ivan Choo]

i believe with the P dosage, and K dosage, it is encouraging the take up rate of NO3

i switch on my UV 18W for 9 hrs last night, will that affect any of the reading? One thing for sure is the tank is super clear today

Yes I believe the boost in nutrients is encouraging more utilisation of N. Keep at it and find the equilibrium. Like I mentioned before, if your system are producing enough NO3, you may not need to dose N at all. Just remember to take it slow and easy, don't change your dosing rate too fast, observe and analyse and adjust. Also the uptake rate you observe may be due to plants 'storing' the nutrients and not actually using it, so the uptake rate may taper off eventually.

I believe UV will have an effect on Fe. I suggest you run your UV on rest days (no dosing) before your water changes. I noticed that after I run my UV, the water is super clear. I usually run UV for at least one day.