Preventive measures I can take?

[flyinmysoup]

Hi there!

I'm having a little attack of hair algae on my Taiwan Moss. But its stringy, not as fine as how my previous tanks' hair algae looks.

What should I do to prevent any algae attacks? any recommendations to my lights and stuff I have inside? I've attached a picture of it to give you guys a better idea. Its meant to be a low maintenance tank and I intend to keep it stress free for me. But I need to know if I'm doing anything wrong now to prevent future problems.

Appreciate your replies!


My tank stats:

Beginners Info Sheet
++++++++++++++++++

Tank Dimensions (LxWxH): 24X14X18 inches (LBH)
Lighting Intensity(No of Watts) : 55
Type of Lighting (FL/PL/MH) : PL
No. of Hours your light is on: 8hours
CO2 Injection Rate (bps) : Nil
Type of CO2 (DIY/Liquid/Tank) : Daily dose of Seachem Flourish Excel
Method of Injection (e.g. Diffusor/Reactor): NA
Substrate Used : JBJ Brown
How Thick is your base fert : 1cm
How thick is your gravel : 4cm
Liquid Fertilizers Used : TMG
Frequency of fertilization : Once Weekly
Tank Temperature : Not Sure. Fan on for 24/7
Type of Filter (overhead/internal/canister) : Eheim 2213
Filter media used : Foam, Bio Balls, Coral Chips
How long has your tank been set up : 2 months


Chemical Properties (I've got no idea)
---------------------------------------

Carbonate Hardness (kh):
Total Hardness (gH):
PH :
NH4 (ppm):
NO2 (ppm):
NO3 (ppm):
PO4 (ppm):
Fe (ppm):

Bioload (Your Fish and Plants)
------------------------------

Flora: E. Tenellus, Taiwan Moss, Java Fern, Narrow Leaved Java Fern, some Crypts
Fauna: 10 Cherry Shrimps, 15 B. Brigittae, 6 Scarlet Badis, 4 Otos, 2 Paros Sp. Blue, 1 Loach.

[rocketshrimp]

Eh....I think you got "fuzzy" algae....haha, I meant the pic. Can't see a thing...

Anyway, from your parameters...notice that you don't have co2. Therein lies the problem....too much light for a non co2 tank. You may want to cut down your lights to say...half. Or run a diy co2 reactor.

[flyinmysoup]

Would a 36w PL be sufficient for this tank's height? Its a tall 2 footer.

[|squee|]

I don't know about height, but I'd use 36W or less for a low maintainence tank, and don't dose any liquid fertiliser at all. I don't know about the Excel too... maybe you'd want to change it to weekly dosing instead.

[flyinmysoup]

I've got E. Tenellus at the bottom. And some of the moss overhanging the DW is blocking the light from them. Would 36W be strong enough to create a pink lawn out of them? I've shifted the light back towards the rear of the tank to shine over the fan. Its dimmer now. Wonder if this will work?

Stupid question, I'm using a Magnum II PL light I bought from NA. To change it to 36W I just need to go and purchase a tube of that wattage and change it right? Its compatible with the e-ballast in my set? I know nuts about electronics so I need some help here.

Damn.... just bought TMG thinking it'll help my Narrow Leaved Java Fern sprout out more leaves...

I thought Excel is a CO2 substitute. And I read that raising the levels of CO2 will curb algae. So if I dose it only once a week down from my daily dose, won't algae appear?

I'm pretty woozy now with the info, so please bear with me guys.

[bclee]

My suggestions. Go for the low-tech method.

36W of lights should be just right. You might still live with 55W. You may want to give a little shade over the moss if possible. (I have 51W over my 2'x1'x1' non-CO2. No algae problem.)

Cut all fertilisers. Fertilise only when plants exibit deficiency, ie pale leaves or pin-holes, etc. (This is quite infrequent. Sometimes you do not even need to fertilise.)

Reduce the frequency of water changes... once every month or even 2 months is sufficient.

Reduce surface turbulance.

Feed the fishes generously.

Add algae eaters like yamato shrimps (highly recommended) and otos.

Add more plants.

BC

[flyinmysoup]

Thanks bclee!

That sure gave me a good idea of what to do. I got some nice Salvinias and Amazon Frogbits (really long roots!!!) today from Koah Fong (he's such a nice person!!!) and am gonna let them spread to shade the tank. Reduced my lighting to 36W already. Added some more C. Balansae at the left back of the tank.

Only thing is surface turbulence. My fan is running 24/7 and it does create some currents on the surface. I know that surface turbulence is a factor for algae growth. But I guess with the floating plants spreading in place, that turbulence will be kept in check. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed now...

BTW, my bioload's fine?

[rocketshrimp]

Surface turbulence causes algae? Never heard that before.

Surface turbulence will cause titantic to sink....
and cause your co2 (but you don't have!) to dissipate. (means, cannot stay dissolved in the water)

PS...yes, KF is a nice guy. I got my frogbits from him too and bits and pieces of some spare parts that till now, I don't know what plants they are. :P

[flyinmysoup]

Surface turbulence causes algae? Never heard that before.

Surface turbulence will cause titantic to sink....
and cause your co2 (but you don't have!) to dissipate. (means, cannot stay dissolved in the water)

PS...yes, KF is a nice guy. I got my frogbits from him too and bits and pieces of some spare parts that till now, I don't know what plants they are. :P

Haha... nope, I meant that surface turbulence does add to things happening leading to algae growth. Read that some where on the Net.

Yeah, KF's real nice. Showed me around his office and the many nice, simple tanks that look absolutely fabulous and shared lots with me. I'm glad to have met him.

[PeterGwee]

If you are going the non-CO2 way, moderate surface turbulence from the fans is good since the tank does not get O2 high from plant production like a CO2 enriched tank. It allows the gas exchange to occur at the surface to prevent O2 depletion from both critter and bacteria uptake.

One thing to note about non-CO2 tanks is stopping of water changes since water changes adds CO2 back to the limited tank (amount of CO2 depending on the tap source). Plants can get used to low CO2 if given time (approximately a week or so....they induce genes to make enzymes that concentrate CO2 around Rubisco, the CO2 fixing enzyme.). Doing regular large water changes confuses the plants...don't do that!

Regards
Peter Gwee

[flyinmysoup]

If you are going the non-CO2 way, moderate surface turbulence from the fans is good since the tank does not get O2 high from plant production like a CO2 enriched tank. It allows the gas exchange to occur at the surface to prevent O2 depletion from both critter and bacteria uptake.

One thing to note about non-CO2 tanks is stopping of water changes since water changes adds CO2 back to the limited tank (amount of CO2 depending on the tap source). Plants can get used to low CO2 if given time (approximately a week or so....they induce genes to make enzymes that concentrate CO2 around Rubisco, the CO2 fixing enzyme.). Doing regular large water changes confuses the plants...don't do that!

Regards
Peter Gwee

Thanks!

However, I have to top up 2 beer jugs of water each day lost from evaporation. Is there a way to de-CO2 the water before topping up? Haha.... this is strange fix. My moss do well with the fan though.

[bclee]

Err... i think you guys got the idea of the non-CO2 tank wrong.

Plants will still need CO2 in a non-CO2 injected tank. The only difference is the source of CO2. In a low-tech tank, plants depends on the decomposition of organic matter for the CO2 supply. Surface turbulence should also be kept to the minimum for CO2 to be retain in the water. Water in equilibrium with atmosphere only contains about 0.5ppm of CO2. In the nature, streams can contain up to 5ppm of CO2. Thus, to reproduce that, you got to keep surface turbulance down. We also feed the fishes more liberally to provide the organics and the minerals (from fish waste and maybe leftover food).

Tap water is almost devoid of CO2. The reason for cutting water change is not to remove CO2. Basically, there is no need for water change like in a high-tech tank because we do not dose ferilisers to the water and there is less tendancy for mineral build-ups. You can even hold the water change until you observe a slow down in plant growth.

BC

[PeterGwee]

BC, I think Tom mentioned in a chat quite sometime back that non-CO2 tanks needs more surface movement (not a lot but more than CO2 enriched tanks) since gas exchange at the surface is about the only thing that can prevent the O2 from getting too low for the critters and bacteria since the plants don't add much in a non-CO2 enriched tank. (The issue here is more on the welfare of the critters).

Natural rivers and lakes does have high CO2 up to 30ppm or more (Tom wrote it somewhere..either in APD or BarrReport).

Non CO2 tanks talk by Tom Barr

I'll try to get permission from Tom to post his Non-CO2 tank article if he allows it.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[bclee]

Believe me, I run non-CO2 tank. Cutting the surface turbulance will help a lot for a low-tech tank. The O2 supplied by the plants is sufficient to last my critters (I packed about 30+ fishes and 10+ yamato shrimps in my tiny 15gal tank) through the night. You do not need the O2 high of the high-tech tank to get enough O2 for the critters.

I do not doubt that part of lakes with high organic matter can achieve 30ppm. What I am trying to say is exactly that. Even in running streams in the nature contains up to 5ppm of CO2. CO2 in equilibrium with atmosphere (when there is turbulance) contains only 0.5ppm. That is not sufficient for plant growth. So... cut the turbulance.

Read the Diana Walstad's book. It will give you some insights in this area.

BC

[flyinmysoup]

Erm.... so any idea what I can do for my tank?

To fan or not to fan? So its okay to have top ups, but not water changes yes?

[bclee]

Erm.... so any idea what I can do for my tank?

To fan or not to fan? So its okay to have top ups, but not water changes yes?

What is the temperature without fan?

Top ups are diffinitely ok. There is no need for frequent water changes.

BC

[flyinmysoup]

I don't measure, but I reckon about 27 degrees? And man, does the Amazon Frogbit grow fast! Yesterday it was here and today, its putting out a shoot already!!!! KF, you got strong plants there man!

[bclee]

Most plants have no problem with 27°C. Fans might not be necessary.

Frogbits take in atmospheric CO2. Therefore, they have the advantage over submerged plants.

BC

[flyinmysoup]

Hmm.... the 2 plants have become 3 in a matter of 3 days. Thats really quick by my standards. One more thing guys, I recently planted lotsa crypts of different types in the left rear to front. Do crypts take in lotsa nutrients? Haven't had any of them melting on me yet.

[flyinmysoup]

Hi guys,

Hair algae is still around. I'm seeing other parts of my moss infected already. PL Lighting reduced from 55W to 36W. No CO2 still. Fan on 24/7. Not dosing anything at all. Any ideas of what I might need to change? Its really tiring to remove the hair algae strands manually and I had wanted this to be a low tech tank. Bleah...

Still too much light?

Flora & Fauna no change as per first post on this thread.