To heat or to cool.....?

[Wizan]

Hi,
I'm a newbie in planted tanks. Read up a few articles but come out more confused. Hopefully someone can answer my queries below.

1. If base heater is not necessary in our tropical climate, how then can we treat "cold feet" in deep rooted plants?

2. Assuming a 50w tube heater is added beneath the fert and substrate layers, when and how long do we need to switch it on to release nutrients and aid in plants with "cold feet"?

3. With heater, does it not contradict with the need to cool the water to maintain temperature between 24degC - 28degC?

4. Has anyone tried using those cooler gels (those use in cooler box) to cool down the water temperature as an alternative to expensive chillers and noisey fans?

Thanks all in advance for any inputs on the above.

Regards,

Wiz
THINKING OF GOING TO THE THE DARK SIDE........the non CO2 way!

[|squee|]

Hello wiz,

1. Most articles around the net are usually written with Westerners in mind, thus they reccomend heaters, substrate heating coils, etc. I've never heard about "cold feet" though, where did you read it from? In our climate, no heaters are necessary. what the fish shops are doing is really unnecessary.

2. Ditto for the above.

3. Exactly. Over in Singapore, we talk about cooling, not heating

4. Those cooler gels need "recharging" in the freezer if I'm not wrong. It's mainly the hassle involved. Some even use frozen bottles of water and float them around in the tank. But, unless you're at home all day long and can bother to actually freeze and refreeze stuff...

[Wizan]

Squee,
Thanks for the response. Already set up my 31/2ft tank with a buried tube heater but did not switch it on. A fren recommended the heater just in case I need to treat deep rooted plants that I intend to have for rotting roots (cold feet?). Started planting my tank intensively yesterday with starter plants without any Co2 injection. Monitoring the parameters over the 1st week closely.

[rocketshrimp]

Believe me...you will have more problems with other things other than cold feet. No chance for the feet to get cold..will be on your toes most times.


Inserting heater in the substrate, heard of it before...but this is in the advance section. If you are just starting out, don't worry too much about it.

[Wizan]

Hi Rocketshrimp,
Looks like won't be needing the heater but put it in as part of forward planning in case when a chiller is available or to release more nutrients from the fert substrate below.
Btw, after 24 hrs, the water has cleared. PH tested 6.5, not testing KH and nitrates yet. With 1 fan and no partial water change yet (except topping up after evaporation) or CO2 injection, temperature stabilised at 28degC. Will let the system cycle for another 2 or 3 days b4 PWC and another 2 weeks b4 introducing some tetras, flying foxes and harlequins.


Patient is a virtue to the darkside......... the no CO2 way!

[rocketshrimp]

Wizan,
make sure that your lights are on the low side. If you are following the 2-3wpg rule, with no CO2 and nutrients, that is one sure way of getting algae. In fact, you should try to kick start the plants with lights, co2 and nutrients from the start... In my opinion.

[vinz]

Errrrrrr.... I'm not sure if the tube heater is suitable for substrate. There are substrate heaters made specifically to heat the substrate. Usually comes as a long cable which you can spread out evenly under your substrate.

Personally, I won't take the risk of using a normal aquarium water heater in the substrate. I strongly suggest you take it out.

Anyway, plenty of people in Singapore run their tanks successfully without substrate heaters. Lots of people in temperate countries do too. IMO, and from what I've read, it's unnecessary.

[livingstone]

I've heard this from a LFS owner that a substrate heater helps the 'circulation' between the substrate and the water in the tank. He said it's like something to keep the roots of the plants healthy and prevent them from decaying. Not too sure of the basis of this, maybe someone can help to verify.

Having said that, I've been using the same substrate for over 2 years and the plants have been doing just fine. Besides, I think they are abit too expensive for me and I don't want to risk increasing the tank tmeperature.

[Wizan]

Vinz,
Too late to take out the heater, and yes it's the long flexible type which you was spreaded out on the floor of the tank.It will be quite a chore now to dig it out.

BTW Rocketshrimp,
I started off with intense dense population of starter plants with less light but plenty of subtrate nutrients as per non CO2 way described in the sticky note in this forum. Will try to post some pics if I can figure out how to resize the pics. The low light and no co2 will inhibit algae growth as well as the plant growth. I am not a plant person, thus had to read up alot to chose some of the easier growing and hardy plants for a start.

Thanks all for the comments. I just had my old 5L CO2tank refilled today for standby, just in case I dont have the patience to see them grow. But that's the idea of the low tech, non CO2 way, to enjoy the aquascape just as you have planned it and not let it obscured by overgrown vegetation.

[Wizan]

Attached is my 1st attempt in planted tank.

[ranmasatome]

well...first thing is o take out those pebbles... use only 1 kind of rock grow something in its place.. very eyesore in my opinion those pebbles...but the rest is looking up... good job!!

[Wizan]

Ranmasotome,
Thanks for the comment. Yes, the pebbles are quite an eyesore. Were added by my missus. Had quite an argument about their placement in the tank.
Well got to give in otherwise.........no heaven!
Btw,tested the water yesterday 2100hrs, temp.27.4 degC.
Nitrate 100mg/l
Nitrite 0mg/l
Total hardness 7-14 dGH
Carbonate hardness 3degdkH
pH 7.2
Did partial water change and added a teaspoonful of activated bacteria powder (don't know what brand though..)
Today 2000hrs, tested again, nitrite remains 0 mg/l, nitrate level dropped to 0 mg/l, pH reduced to 6.8 and both hardness remains the same, temp still around 27.5degC, also noted minute tiny bubbles forming at the pygmy amazon chain swords. Looks like some photosynthesis is happening...So far no signs of any algae after 5 days of cycling as expected.
Now should I add in some algae eaters or tetras to add the biomass load? Any comments are welcome.

[wong1979]

Not bad for a first attempt. If you insist on putting the grey pebbles, try to insert them halfway or 3/4 into the sand. It'll look more natural that way

[Wizan]

Thanks Wong,
Those 1/2 buried pebbles near my anubias nana looks more natural indeed. Will remove one pebble a day so my missus would not notice till the crypts grow over some of them........he..he..!

[loupgarou]

substrate heaters aren't significant (ie: not a major part), consume electricity, can be a source of failure.
in singapore, its not even needed, even in a chilled tank, since the ambient temperature below the tank is higher than the chilled water of the tank, if you must insist, then some convection is happened that way as well.


I think a simple check of all those planted tanks in tank competitions, where you can't see the power cable should be a testament to the low usage of substrate heaters.

[vinz]

Vinz,
Too late to take out the heater, and yes it's the long flexible type which you was spreaded out on the floor of the tank.It will be quite a chore now to dig it out.

...

If it's that, then it's ok to leave it there even if you don't use it. I was concerned that you were using those in a glass tube that are used for heating water. Mis-intepreted what you meant by "tube heater".

[Wizan]

Hi All,
Here is an update of my 1st attempt at planted tanks.
After two weeks with only CO2 injection in the first week as advised by the experts, I have seen some brown spotted algae on some of my plants. Will need some potassium and other liquid nutrients later. But for the moment my 2 Julii and 3 SAE are doing their best. At the same time I had increased the biomass load by introducing 10 harlequin rasboras, 10 zebra danios and about 20 cardinal tetras over the 2nd week. Also put in 2 rams today. Have been doing partial water change every 3 days or so or just topping up for evaporation. All conditions looks ok for the fishes. So far the fishes look happy but the plants except for the pygmy chain swords and carbomba does not look good. Leaves are green but a bit pale to yellowish. Any advise. Think need more lights.

[Wizan]

Here are som update pics.