Discus advice

[richietay]

been 2 mths since last bought 2 med size discus. meals fed blood worm, 2 times a day, been rejecting beefheart,flakes. water change 1/3 once a week, running overhead filter, plus air pump.
added 6 small sized together.....abt 3weeks!

everything goes well, be it their appetiete, behaviour, very active. but one thing is that, i find their gowth very slow. my friend's doing well, growth very obvious. anyone can give me any adice on this?!

[mitsukake]

hi there..


i think maybe its either stunned type ?
u shouldnt worry about their size as long as their are doing well with no parasites etc..
but remember dun over feed them
keep the water clean

[celticfish]

richietay,

you need to do more water changes! i do about 20% daily or minimum to siphon out the feces and 50% both sat and sun. BW is a good conditioning food ut is very hard to bulk up. flake food is good and convinient if they are small but quite unfulfilling if they are adults. you can try tetra bits. i feed my daily on that.

using a heater might help. set at 30 to 32 C.

when you feed add a little BH into the regular food. keep at it consistently and they will take to it eventually. btw when using this method do not feed too much of the regular food. a little hunger might compel them to try the new food.

celticfish
p.s. - do a search on the forum as a couple of us have recently posted some good and basic information on discus.

been 2 mths since last bought 2 med size discus. meals fed blood worm, 2 times a day, been rejecting beefheart,flakes. water change 1/3 once a week, running overhead filter, plus air pump.
added 6 small sized together.....abt 3weeks!

everything goes well, be it their appetiete, behaviour, very active. but one thing is that, i find their gowth very slow. my friend's doing well, growth very obvious. anyone can give me any adice on this?!

[Sidious]

try to do 50% wc daily... i know its hard to comply cause i student and time is important but its only 30mins for 2 2ft tanks if u do quickly.... if u cant then try 70% every 2 or 3 days... must WC... basic rule.. also, if you feed BH, must WC daily so stick to BW if you cant WC daily... try not to have too much water currents in the tank cause discus dont like... if you can wc like what i stated above, then sponge filter is enough... please feel free to pm me for any questions..... will try to help.. if the experts dont really agree with what i've stated, then please correct me so that i can learn as well

[dennis_yong]

hi sorry hv to use ur thread jus wanna knw whether how to make discus least stress cox they with me abt 1week liao but they seems still stress n how come my discus of 2 inch turn abit blackish van see big difference from the rest while the rest seems ok

[celticfish]

hi dennis,

discus are quite skittish especially when you just move them to a new environment. if they are young fish like yours you should have a group of at least 6 fishes. some points to consider when acclimatizing:

1. place tank around area at home with little human traffic.
2. place tank where shadow cast from you doesn't fall on the tank.
3. provide some cover in front of the tank so there is something between you and them. this should provided some feelings of safety to them. i usually use a "wall" of potted plants to mid-level of the tank.
4. water condition should be as close to previous owner as possible.
5. minimum temp of 27C. 30C is better though.

first treatment, and usually the best, is to always change water! but watch the temp of the new water. second treatment, raise temp to 32 or 34C. feed often and sparingly. siphon all waste immediately too.

the ultimate treatment? happens when you buy them. only select fish that look lively, come forward to the tank when you place your hand on the glass(please don't knock the glass and expect them to come forward...), fins fully opened and bright eyes! very hard to kill such fish when you take them home. i reckon if you contact home breeders you will be able to get good fish compared to most non-discus LFS. if you have to get from LFS try to get them within a week of their arrival at the shop. they just don't get the same TLC as a local breeder. if you're starting out i'd suggest you keep to cheaper fish till you improve your observation skills of the fish. however some of the varieties are damn tempting to resist! i know... resistence is futile! been there and done that before...

celticfish

hi sorry hv to use ur thread jus wanna knw whether how to make discus least stress cox they with me abt 1week liao but they seems still stress n how come my discus of 2 inch turn abit blackish van see big difference from the rest while the rest seems ok

[dennis_yong]

hi celticfish ya tats true tat some breed is very attractive tat why i hv to started up in cheaper breed 1st den upgrade to a better ones but still very xin dong but hv to wait n learn more things 1st anyway tks 4 ur advice

hi dennis,

discus are quite skittish especially when you just move them to a new environment. if they are young fish like yours you should have a group of at least 6 fishes. some points to consider when acclimatizing:

1. place tank around area at home with little human traffic.
2. place tank where shadow cast from you doesn't fall on the tank.
3. provide some cover in front of the tank so there is something between you and them. this should provided some feelings of safety to them. i usually use a "wall" of potted plants to mid-level of the tank.
4. water condition should be as close to previous owner as possible.
5. minimum temp of 27C. 30C is better though.

first treatment, and usually the best, is to always change water! but watch the temp of the new water. second treatment, raise temp to 32 or 34C. feed often and sparingly. siphon all waste immediately too.

the ultimate treatment? happens when you buy them. only select fish that look lively, come forward to the tank when you place your hand on the glass(please don't knock the glass and expect them to come forward...), fins fully opened and bright eyes! very hard to kill such fish when you take them home. i reckon if you contact home breeders you will be able to get good fish compared to most non-discus LFS. if you have to get from LFS try to get them within a week of their arrival at the shop. they just don't get the same TLC as a local breeder. if you're starting out i'd suggest you keep to cheaper fish till you improve your observation skills of the fish. however some of the varieties are damn tempting to resist! i know... resistence is futile! been there and done that before...

celticfish

[richietay]

Just another qns for discus expert, if discus body appear tiny black dots or spots, wat is wrong here?!?!

[celticfish]

Just another qns for discus expert, if discus body appear tiny black dots or spots, wat is wrong here?!?!

richietay,
haven't experience black spots before. usually white spot. i would suggest you up your temp gradually in 1C ticks to 32 or 34C ASAP. when the fish have normalized (start eating and become active) then try to reduce in same sequence. i would suggest you keep at a min 30C for a couple of days to a week. this will help the fish to keep up their appetite and eat well.
celticfish

[Big Eyes]

Hi
By now you would have gathered that Water Change is crucial under normal circumstance barring that your discus are not stunted.

You did not mention about your tank size. In my experience, frequency of water change is relative to your tank size. the smaller tank size the more frequent water change is needed.

Another behaviour I observed in my experience is that when you have a domninant discus in your tank, it affects the growth of the others. In you case, you had 2 Mid size earlier then you introduced 6 Small size later. Your 6 small size growth rate might be affected by the 2 Mid size ones.

You did not mention specific which ones that you did not see noticeable growth but I suspect you are referring to the 6 Small ones. Best to put them in a separate tank to buff them up 1st.

Just to elaborate the point about water change and growth. I was told that Pro Breeders who want to send their discus for competition, they used that drip method. That is they have an overflow pipe in their tank and let water drips/trickles into the tank everyday, 24hrs/day! I was told that they get a growth rate of 1 inch/mth. i.e. a 9mth old discus is about 9 inches!. I did not try this myself as I do not have such kind of set up.

Have fun....

[Big Eyes]

One more point.

In my opinion, in Singapore, we do not need heater. It will add cost to your hobby.


Cheers.

[richietay]

Big eyes!

my tank size 4ft. yah...smaller ones are being affected for their growth.
2 out of them are pretty alright, bigger in size, bright spots, fins opened!

as for WC, i do it abt 40% every 5 days now! feeding them 2 times a day, with bloodworm, u think i should feed them more?!?! pls advice

i got 2 4ft tank, one used for planted, temp at 25.5! so dun think suitable for discus. so you think can i use a divider in the same tank? and is transparent.

will need some advices from you to get my discus going, thanks!

[StanChung]

hi richietay,

welcome, welcome, to discus fever...ha ha...

a divider is your best bet. one of those luohan days leftover?...
[me never liked luohan...mean looking]

since you do so few water changes, you might wanna add some ammonia chips[zeolite-removes ammonia] into your filter[powerhead+box?]... i have done this succesfully while feeding mix of tetrabits, bw and bh. sometimes separately sometimes together. normally the one they like least first in the morning. the best fattening up food is of course bh. so you have to get them to eat this first. they normally love this so maybe there is problem with the quality or content of the bh mix.[or bullying from the bigger fish]

be mindful of overfeeding because it 30% of what's eaten not digested[from some books] more small meals preferred. you can normally tell the fish had enough from it's paunch! keep meal times apart at least 3 hrs. i've heard andrew soh, writer of discus book 'the naked truth' write that he used to feed 5 times a day morning 6-7am first meal and 12 midnight last meal. the fish reach 8in size![measured not incl tail]

walau, become slave to the fish man...

well, depends on your schedule man. feed more change water more often. once a day is best or do the ammonia chips thing. i was able to get away from changes for two weeks. in a very narrow tank, ~80liters with four 3in fish.

the drip idea i've seen before and it really works. you only need to scoop/siphon the poo/excess food once a day.
hope this was helpful.

[Big Eyes]

Hi
The divider you use should be opaque; not the see through type. Discus can be intimidated by sight.

More frequent feeding will ensure better growth but do not overfeed each time. I am lucky that my discus eat a variety of food, Tetra Bits(Super Bits), Blood Worm & Beef Heart.

There are people successful in keeping Discus in planted tank. I have no experience so I cannot comment. Personally, I like to keep them in bare tank to watch them. I keep a separate planted tank for other fish.


Have fun.

[StanChung]

hi richie,

very good suggestion from big eyes on opaque divider.

for planted tanks with discus[lots of hard work]

visit this link.http://article.discusnews.com/dph-pr...ank-2000.shtml

from my experience, beginner level[unless you have a whole load of time on your hands]- don't use carpet plants...crap gets into everywhere as discus are messy eaters. trapped food will fungus and spoil water. you will have to siphon water everyday[incl] cleaning gravel top layer. this means you have to top up on the water and plant fertilizer chemicals. don't worry, got solution at bottom...

don't put juveniles [2"-3"], or you end up spending a lot of time and money on the issue above because you want them to grow out [fatten up]
adults are better bet as they will eat less and crap less. you may want to try training them to eat out of feeding colander when young, bloodworms? i have no success so can't comment.[discus are dumb when comes to food, every other critter knows to rush for it except discus. sigh! too kiasi i think]

good idea to create an aquascape with a clear area. this will be their feeding area. using flat rock is a good idea.[no gravel to vacuum!]

plants...echinodorus, cryptocorynes, anubias, java ferns, lotus plants[best of the lot imo].

you are looking at plants that can tolerate warm waters discus likes [28-30]
some discus like to tear apart soft leaved plants??? my friend says his does![mine doesn't]
so depending on temperament of your fish. blyxa aubertii is a nice addition.

your options on plants becomes more if the temp can be lowered to 26c-27c
you can have all the mosses, hottonia, tonina, hairgrass[foreground plant alert!], downois, eriocaulon cinereum...
this is to be done with care as 26-27c will lower the appetite of your discus, they become slow as well so good for only 'retired fish'. the big ones that are ex-champions...

amano has said that fish are more adaptable than plants.[unless the plants were adaptable in the first place imo ] he wanted the plants to do well and to do well the temperatures had to be lowish 26c.[compared to sg-my climes around 29c]

he is expert level so he uses carpet plants well, this you also can when you plants the them first and let it take root first before you put any discus or bottom feeders[corydoras]

Point is Amano's heckels/browns are in waters considered too low for discus at 26c.[sick easily but his were fine]
these fellas however never grow jumbo size [around 4" plus]
so if you don't mind then go ahead... phew...

Maybe instead of divider you can put your adult ones[grown out] in the planted tank and up the temp to 26.5-27.5?

[Simon]

i disagree with temp of planted tank not suitable with discus. I believe the temp in the rivers where wild discuses are found in have more variations in temp than compared to our tanks. I have kept wild tefe and heckels in my fully planted tank, together with a lush coverage of foreground without any probs. temp was ard 25 to 28 range thru out the day. I wouldnt not advise daily water change in a planted tank. oe thing i totally agree is getting middle to adult sized discus for a start. that way u eliminate the possibility of spending more on getting them fat and u avoid unknowingly getting stunned discuses.. the pts that celticfish mentioned is rather true. discuses aint stupid when it comes to feeding, but i consider them as gentle giants.. try feeding them with high protien food (beefheart), increase number of feed will be good. the theory for regular water change is that the larger fishes produces chemicals into the water that retards growth (hearsay from somewhere)

[StanChung]

hi guys,
i think you right about the temperatures simon,
the guide for higher temps are more for increasing the metabolic rate of the fish[cold blooded creatures like reptiles need to sun tan to get blood pumping before they can start chasing down food! ] to get the small fellas bigger.
this is to mean that to avoid stunted discus you need higher temperatures to increase their appetite for food due to increased metabolic rate. so again planted tank not suitable for juveniles as i have said unless you don't mind them small [~4"]

low temp, get sick easily thing is an expert point of view when you have planted tank that has a maintained temp via chillers systems. this is because of less food, they tend to be weaker. this is why they grow out to their max potential size.
like in the wild where there low water season, the temps are high, their appetites increase, more food density, less water/easier to hunt insect larvae etc] perfect conditions to grow out.

when it's rainy season, it's cooler, perfect for breeding, because of change in temp, discus are stimulated to breed. this is a time also when they lose their appetites. [nature is fantastic isn't it?]

[Justikanz]

Yes, bigger discus emits some hormones into the water to inhibit the others from reaching their full size... That's why very often, if not enough water changes are made, one usually end up with 1 or 2 big discus and the rest remaining smallish or stunted...