Problems after water change

[PeterGwee]

Peter, are you running a carbon filter with the hose? I just read a post today by Tom Barr suggesting that. I'm considering trying it out, but have no idea what gadget I'm looking for.

No, I don't. Never had a need or reason to though.
You can get those water cooler pre-filters (NA style of CO2 reactor unit) and insert carbon medias in it and then hook it up inline with the water changing hose. Do the water topup slowly should do the trick. The only thing that is likely to change might be the KH or change of source from chlorine to chloramine.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[vinz]

No, I don't. Never had a need or reason to though.
You can get those water cooler pre-filters (NA style of CO2 reactor unit) and insert carbon medias in it and then hook it up inline with the water changing hose. Do the water topup slowly should do the trick. The only thing that is likely to change might be the KH or change of source from chlorine to chloramine.

Regards
Peter Gwee

Peter,

Your last sentence is confusing... I take it you meant that the water KH has changed and more chlorine is being replaced by chloramine at treatment plant. Context wise, the statement seems to be saying the carbon filter will change the KH and source of chlorine to chloramine?

[vinz]

I got hold of a drinking fountain filter fitted with a 0.5 micron carbon filter over the weekend. Did a 50% water change thru that and this morning I got the same problem again.... cloudy water, and fish gasping or gulping. All but 4 yamato shrimps died. The 4 shrimps have been transferred out.

Seachem Ammonia Alert shows nothing.
Nitrite test -> 0.3ppm

Well, the nitrite test kit only confirms suspicion that the biological filter got wiped.

Furthur reading today reveals carbon filters will remove most of the chlorine, but not chloramine. So, I still have to add anti-chlorine/chloramine. If it's mostly chloramine in my water supply, then the carbon filter is pointless.

But, where was the ammonia peak? Is it possible that the peak was so short that I did not notice it all? Or is the ammonia-nitrifying bacteria more resistant and didn't get completely wiped, whereas the nitrite-nitrifying bacteria got completely wiped?

Maybe I don't have enough bio-media? I have enough Biohome to fill only one tray of my 2280, but Ehiem recommends 2 trays. According to Biohome instructions, I have enough to filter many times the water I have. But Biohome is chunky, so it may not be effective in a faster flowing filter like the 2280. Large gaps between the chunks may be reducing the amount of water that goes through the media rather then between the media. In this case a small grain bio-media simlar to Eheim's ehfisubstrate maybe a better choice.

I have another tank which has a younger setup (by a few weeks) then the 6' tank. 200 litres, running on a 2260 filter, planted, no chiller, CO2, moderate light, proportionally heavier bio-load. Also using Biohome... proportionally less biohome. I did a 50% water change through the carbon filter on Saturday... no anti-chlorine/chloramine used. No discernable adverse effects noticed.

This tank, during the earlier days, suffered similar problems... fishes go straight to the surface to gasp and even die within hours after a water change. I removed the fishes and ran this tank almost fishless for a number of weeks before I put the fishes back again. Then a number of weeks without water change or only 20% water change with aged water.

So why does this tank not suffer the same problems now? A denser bio-filter... i.e. heavier bioload, hence proportionally a denser bacteria colony that recovers quicker? Temperature? Plant nutrient needs goes up with temperature (to a certain point), so the plants here handle most of the ammonia peak (and hence reduce the nitrite peak)? A more mature bio-media? This tank's media is younger then that in the 6' tank.



The four shrimps are now in the 200litre tank. I'll see if they survive the next 50% water change on that tank. (Yeah, cruel... sigh)

For the 600litre, I'll reduce the water change to 10% while still using the carbon filter and anti-chloramine and see the results. I'll gradually increase the % changed per week.

[PeterGwee]

Peter,

Your last sentence is confusing... I take it you meant that the water KH has changed and more chlorine is being replaced by chloramine at treatment plant. Context wise, the statement seems to be saying the carbon filter will change the KH and source of chlorine to chloramine?

Eh...no. Unless you add baking soda or have coral chips in your tank/filter (make sure they are still there), the tap's KH might have drop to very low levels and with injection of CO2, can be deadly. You would need a bi-carbonate buffer to prevent a pH crash from CO2.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[Phillipians]

i haven had that trouble with WC yet. Sometime i change like 50% but i never have murky water, the only murkiness i get is from the debris floating around becos i disturbed the waters. In fact it clears up within an hour.

I think its got to do with water quality, i live in bukit merah areanever had that prob. I have 2 tanks, both 2 ft and both no prob whatsoever

[Allen_1971]

Hey Vinz,

Just thinking aloud...

OK I agree it seems like your bio-filter is getting hit somehow... If the anti-chorine is not working, chances are is not chlorine... I would try one or all of the following approaches...

1) add new bio filter material. Although biohome is supposedly really long lived, it could be that your biohome has gotten clogged over the years and is not as effective (I know the marketting propaganda say this should not happen...). This will also resolve the potential problem that your bio filter is not sufficient. Also, assuming that somethng is wiping out your bio-filter, more filter medium means more bacteria, means more bacteria surviving, means reduced impact...

2) Not sure what anti-chlorine you are using, but try using one that has chelating elements in it. I'm just thinking about whether there could be some possible heavy metals in your water from your piping and such... (not very likely to be the problem, but can't hurt to have some EDTA or DPTA in there... just hold on a bit in your fertilization.)

3) hold off on changing 50% water a bit. If your nitrite loving bacteria are getting hit, then doing a water change every week could be wiping out the colony just as it is getting settled again. Although yours is a not a new cycle, can't hurt that much to slow the changes a bit... if your really can't then I would go for lower water volume, higher frequency changes instead.

4) You probably know this anyway, but a couple of tablespoons of salt just to help with nitrite toxicity issue would probably be a good idea before you add the tap water (i forget the exact amount...) .

Ah well thats all I can think of... now back to work

[vinz]

Waaaaaaaaaaa.... Allen posted in my thread!

does this mean you're back in the forum? Ready to come out of "retirement"?

[vinz]

Hey Vinz,
...

1) add new bio filter material. Although biohome is supposedly really long lived, it could be that your biohome has gotten clogged over the years and is not as effective (I know the marketting propaganda say this should not happen...). This will also resolve the potential problem that your bio filter is not sufficient. Also, assuming that somethng is wiping out your bio-filter, more filter medium means more bacteria, means more bacteria surviving, means reduced impact...

Am considering that... ^$^ ^$^ ^$^

2) Not sure what anti-chlorine you are using, but try using one that has chelating elements in it. I'm just thinking about whether there could be some possible heavy metals in your water from your piping and such... (not very likely to be the problem, but can't hurt to have some EDTA or DPTA in there... just hold on a bit in your fertilization.)

I'm using Tetra Aquasafe NH/CL formulation... It handles chloramine, ammonia and heavy metals as well.

3) hold off on changing 50% water a bit. If your nitrite loving bacteria are getting hit, then doing a water change every week could be wiping out the colony just as it is getting settled again. Although yours is a not a new cycle, can't hurt that much to slow the changes a bit... if your really can't then I would go for lower water volume, higher frequency changes instead.

It's planted so, I think I don;t have to up the frequency, just reduce the % changed.

...

Ah well thats all I can think of... now back to work

Thanks, big man.

[Allen_1971]

Waaaaaaaaaaa.... Allen posted in my thread!

does this mean you're back in the forum? Ready to come out of "retirement"?

Heh... errr no... I quite enjoy "retirement"... had a bit of time yesterday so I popped in to look see... besides with 3 kids, any "comeback" I make will be very VERY short lived....

[vinz]

... you got 3 kids already? I think the last time I spoke to you, number 2 was on the way.

[|squee|]

vinz...

check this out: http://www.petfrd.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17507

[greenie]

Guys, I have this problem since setting up in jan my 4x2x2. After cycling the tanks I introduce slowly 100 cardinal tetras + other characin species. I also added 50 yamatoes which slowly I reduced to 10 by selling the rest. I'm staying in Jurong West Ext.

Same situation, cloudy water after water change. After doing every combination of ways imaginable, I decide not to do water change. Slowly within weeks water became clear. That's when tank was 5 months into setup.

Now 4 months on, I noticed cloudiness when I top-up evaporated water. It last usually a day or so. Also noticed Ph rises up to 7.5 - 8 after top-up. Had to pump up C02 until it stable at 6.5 - 7. Now with the increase C02 injection my pH maintain stable at 6.5 - 7. I do watch out for stress to my Yamatoes, but since they keep reproducing themselves,(yes, 4-5 little ones a month), they should be ok.

Trust me, nothing wrong with your fert method or biofilter. Its the supply water that causes the sudden algal bloom. As long as it works for me, I don't change water at all - BUT - I do observe for problems to my plants health.

My 2 cents.

[vinz]

Arghhhhh... an update.

About 3 to 4 weeks ago, I changed 50% water on my 200litre tank. Water was filtered through the carbon filter. No problems observed. A 50% water change on my 600 litre tank on the same day gave me the same cloudiness problem again.

Thinking that the 200 litre tank is stable, I again changed 50% of the water the previous weekend and the water turned cloudy overnight and killed all my red-lined torpedos. Other fishes were gasping.

I was then battling BGA, so I did a black out last week which cleared out all the BGA. Following that I did the prescribed 50% water change again, but this time with 3-days aged water. Less then 10% of the tank was topped with water straight from the tap. Lo and behold, I got the cloudy water problem again. Looks like aged water is not helping me either... or I have to age it longer.

For my 600 litre tank, OTOH, previous week I did a 10% water change. No problems faced. This week I did a 20% water change. No problems either.

[Fei Miao]

So the no more problems now? I'm still baffled by the cause of the cloudiness, something in the water mains???

[vinz]

Uhhh... still have problems. Seems that if I do a water change of 50% even with aged water, my N-cycle bacteria gets wiped. So I'm gradually increasing the the water change each week until I start to notice a problem, then I'll know what the threshold is.

Guess I have to stop replacing livestock for now.

Well, something in the water or something in the pipes.

[|squee|]

Guess you're really sway.

But the plants are fine?

[sage08]

Side track a bit.. but why do u have to change so much water so frequently? I prefer to do subtrate vaccuming every week on my 500L tank and only 5% change every 2 weeks. Just my 2 cents.

[vinz]

Casue I'm following Tom Barr's Estimative Index way of fertilising. The large water change is to "reset" the fertiliser levels to a lower level and then re-dose the required nutrients. It is a method thats proven to work, hence it's quite popular.

This is not the thread to discuss EI, but there are many of other threads that do, on this and other forums.

[vinz]

Guess you're really sway.

But the plants are fine?

Plants are fine.

[PeterGwee]

Uhhh... still have problems. Seems that if I do a water change of 50% even with aged water, my N-cycle bacteria gets wiped. So I'm gradually increasing the the water change each week until I start to notice a problem, then I'll know what the threshold is.

Guess I have to stop replacing livestock for now.

Well, something in the water or something in the pipes.

Make a point to the condo management about the water issue? If not just call PUB...

Regards
Peter Gwee