Any idea why local planted LFS can't thrive???

[plumboy21]

Frankly speaking Gratiola is a good place to sit down and chit chat with fellow planted people but it doesn't have much things there. When i went there about 3 weeks (my first time) ago, i really like the place becos it's very different from other traditional LFSs and you feel very comfortable there partly becos of the friendly young boss there. But that's about it!! There's so many planted tank aquascape and they don't have much plant related accessories.

I find that they didn't make good use of the space to create income for themselves. Crowntol and aquaplanters made the same mistake as well. They focus too much on project work. Biotope is very much better but i feel that they still don't have enough accessories to make it a "happening" place to check things out unlike NA or clementi. The varieties of fishes that they have is quite ok though.

I only know C328 since young. All my stuff are from there. Auntie seems over worked these day. Many stocks to see but too cramp. Wanted to tell auntie to arrange her stuff properly but am afraid will get scolding from her.

[solonavi]

I'm a newbie to planted tank. Have been in marine for a few yrs tot. I'm glad I found this forum. Let's keep this going and hopefully more will join in this wonderful hobby.

Cheers
JC

[Justikanz]

but but but!! there is always the cheapskates.. and surprisingly.. i dont know why there are so many of them especially in this country.. i guess its not surprising coming from a place where its "proud" to be Kiasu.

Hard to resist not to reply... Yes, there are too many cheapskates that will settle for the cheapest anything! Just run thru the marketplace forum and you'll see... offer first price - no one respond, drop price - a couple of responses, change to foc - plenty of responses and some even ask you to deliver!

Anyway, I believe in reasonable pricing for quality. I don't mind paying more for good quality, rare and pretty fish. And of course, plants!...

But then again, responsible aquarists/planters do not constantly need to stock up or re-stock... Unless we have plenty of rooms for new tanks, like I wish... As mentioned, plants can be propogated and a 4ft tank can be filled to the brim very easily and quickly. In fact, now I have no space for introducing new plants, unless I throw away the old plants (cos no one wants to buy them).

Fish can last several years... My black skirts (black widows) had been in my tank for more than 3 years! And they are 'just tetras'. Imagine what good care can do for bigger fish... The bigger the fish, the longer their lifespan. Thus, I dun need to buy new fish for several years if I take such good care of them! It would also not be good to overcrowd the fish...

I want to buy the rare/beautiful fish that Gratiola is offering, but my tank is already overflowing with fish... So, in the end I can only admire them from the tanks at the shop... *Duh*, right?...

In the end, it does not pay to be specialised... In our market/environment, it would be good to have a hand in everything and really deal with the retail walk-in customers, where the more 'common' fish are in demand as they are cheaper.

Also, accessories and food seems to be in demand on a more regular basis... Especially food, it definitely needs to be replenished... Unless you decide to make your own fish food! *OMG!*

[eric_kclee]

Just run thru the marketplace forum and you'll see... offer first price - no one respond, drop price - a couple of responses, change to foc - plenty of responses and some even ask you to deliver!

In my own opinion (please don't shoot me). Just my own view. Selling plant and giving FOC plants in the forum or in the planted circles kills Aquarium that focus solely on plant.

My honest thought!

[Justikanz]

Well, there are plants that are not really popular among the LFSs... eg. APP, Pelia etc... So, sometimes, the forum is a good place to buy them. Unless there are LFSs that actually stock on such plants... But I had yet to find one that has a reliable source... In fact, I learn about MM, APP, Pelia etc from this place rather than see them in shops... double-edged sword?

[aquarius]

Quote :
Originally by plumboy21
I only know C328 since young. All my stuff are from there. Auntie seems over worked these day. Many stocks to see but too cramp. Wanted to tell auntie to arrange her stuff properly but am afraid will get scolding from her.

Actually LFSs don't need to stock alot or everything in the market. All you have to do is stock accessories which are essentials for the hobby. For C328 they have soooo many things and the place is sooo messy that you get overwhelmed and confused!! Polyart on the hand also has a very wide range of products and is also very neatly arranged. The only problem is they need to work on the variety of their fishes. Other than that i think it's a great LFS.

[|squee|]

Personally for me, I rather get my plants from LFSes because usually I can look at the product I'm buying without any obligations before I decide to buy. and it usually comes without the hassle of meeting someone up, getting "aeroplaned" (for our international members: to aeroplane someone is to not meet up with the arranged person and leave him there waiting like an idiot), etc, etc.

However what you guys have said is true, plants are so cheap here (compared to the US for example), fish are affordable. I'd be tempted to try those commercial fertilisers like ADA or Ferka for example, but my student wallet doesn't allow me that unless I spend entirely on aquariums instead of other stuff.

I'd be very interested to see the tanks of those pure Dennerle, Dupla, etc users' tanks. Perhaps we can lure one of them here since this KNO3 KH2PO4 method is rather daunting to newbies and rather hard to explain if the latter doesn't even bother to read up.

Ok kinda off-topic.

[Nicky]

Been thinking about the same question Yorky posted. I think the following are some of the reasons. I hope people can read these objectively and not be emotional about the following:

Influence of internet forums
AQ is a great planted forum and for years I keep learning new things from this forum. However I often wonder if the knowledge that are available on the internet actually kills the LFS business. No doubt it brought about awareness. But awareness of where to find the cheapest, what not to buy, which shop to avoid, etc may not do LFS-in-general any good. Folks here mentioned about NPK and how cheap they can obtained; or how to kill BGA without antibiotics.. I mean, isn’t fertilizer and medicine part of the chain of product to keep the LFS afloat?

Influence of Planted Tank Hobbists
Folks here probably agree with me that fishes live much longer in planted tank than they do in bare tank. So isn’t planted tank hobby actually a nail in the LFS business that focuses only on fish?

Direct Sales
This may be related to internet forums but also differs a little. It is true that hobbists sell on the internet. But I think the direct sales by farms contributed to further damages in the local LFS arena. I love places like Teo’s and ‘curse’ Oriental for not allowing me to visit and buy some plants from them. But behind my mind I always wonder if Oriental’s business model is in fact the correct one. And it is not just plant-farm, fish farm started the trend long ago and while it is true that some farm sells close to the assumed customer-list-price, quite a few did not.

Lack of creativity
Many LFS that sell planted tank equipment/accessories do not bother to do up some refreshing-looking-tank. If there is nothing to show, there will be less impulse purchase. LFS can display all the fertilizer/substrate but who is responsible of enticing the customer to buy on-the-spot?? A low-maint tank of Java-Fern and nana is simple to upkeep, but does it encourage $$ spending? Look at the hair-industry. A colored head is pleasing to the eyes (if done tastefully) but it is actually a revenue generator for the hair-industry if you consider all the touch-ups. Spiky hair amongst the young (and I just did this hair-do yesterday to try to look young, hehe) also automatically generate future revenue because it is difficult to maint that shape and look. Planted-LFS must work towards creating and retaining customers. And that means coming up with ideas that will ensure customer spend money without feeling cheated. And the fresh ideas must surface every now and then to add to the varieties and options. With many options and each seemed to be doing better, customers will buy even if they do not need it (too bad for customers, haha). BTW ever wonder why ADA focuses on making neat, almost transparent-looking gadgets but continue to have tons of equipment in their tank? I mean, if you want a clear tank with only plants & fish isn’t it best to invent something such that all equipment/gadget are hidden away?

Business attitude
In any start-up it is very important to create revenue and control spending. There is always the overhead cost to keep in mind. Setting up a LFS business is not the same as working for a MNC. Setting up a LFS involves hard work and long working hours at least for the start. Closing shop after 1700hrs or on weekend to make time to raid the reserves with kaki is good for maintaining kaki but not good for business. Setting a LFS is not a bed of rose and definitely not a normal transition and regression from a seemingly successful hobby. A successful LFS will always think of doing the same thing with the lowest cost, and taking a plane to buy things to sell does not quite fit the description of cost-control. Also, throw out the assumption that people you know will ‘support’ you; not because they do not want to when you took the plunge but because each has his/her daily concern/chore to take care of.

General willingness to spend / learn
A reasonably successful planted hobby usually involves more than $1000. Even though I think people in Singapore in general do have that money, not many are willing to spend. There are of course the few who will not bet an eyelid to buy a pair of apistos that worth $300. But how many of these people really exist? Many of the fish hobbists relates size to value; Arowana can grow big (plus the perception of fortune generator), so it is worth the money. To the vast majority, why spend more $ buying, say, a special crypts when it looks similar (in their eyes) to the plants next to it when it cost a fraction? Also how many Tree/Choy/Budak (just to name a few, don’t be pissed if I didn’t name you, haha) are there who are able to identify different fish/plants and interested to know beyond their upfront-price?

[XnSdVd]

Hey! Just thought of something! Aquarium themed cafe! They front as a cafe but do aquascaping and regular LFS stuff as well. Essentially, it's Gratiola with more chairs and drinks. And... maybe with lots of hwchoys' and Bennys' pictures on the walls or something.

Think about it, everyone street/road in singapore has an LFS. From those small ones in wetmarkets run by some old drunk guy(there used to be one like this in bedok...) to huge ones like that "Rainbow" place. But there's no place where hobbyists can gather and just hang out after work. I really think it's a niche that hasn't been exploited yet.

Keeping fish is viewed by the general public is an "old mans' pastime". When you say "I'm really into fish keeping" It conjures images of an ah pek in grey shorts and a white singlet sitting next to a bare tank and 1 lonely arowana(no offence to ah peks or arowanas reading this). Which is outdated to say the least. I don't know about you guys but I always thought table top gaming(comic books/Dungeons & Dragons/Warhammer) was it's sister industry. Small market, little awareness, not considered cool among the general youth. But they're doing pretty well for themselves. Partly because no one prints books at home and partly because new issues/versions need to be bought. But also because many of these shops(succesful ones) provide hang out areas where players can chat with each other and the owner.

Vincent, if you ever think of re-opening gratiola ^ that's an idea for you.

[hwchoy]

its not that simple. to sell beverage you need a license and checks by NEA or the Health ministry. And I would venture to guess, having fishy stuff and food stuff on the same premise, is going to be somewhat of a challenge hygiene-wise.

[XnSdVd]

Didn't your friend start something like this in Thailand? But still, if ever there was a place like that I think it'd do pretty well.

[hwchoy]

BKK obviously has quite different control standards right?

[BFG]

You guys forgotten the ONE place where there are cafe and lfs similar to the BKK ones. PETSAFARI! But visit it one of these days and you see some evidence of a downturn and less customer.

1) Staff. The new staff doesn't relate to me. Go back a couple of years ago and you see the difference. Back then, the staff knew what they were selling from hardware to livestock. There were more unique livestock then than now. There were more planted tank being displayed and maintained and the theme of each tank was different. They knew their customer and their preference. The only complaint was the price. For me, it was ok as I might spend the excess for transport if I were to go to farms by taxi but to the walk in customer, all I ever heard was " So and so fish cost lesser at other place/lfs". That alone would stop any new customer from purchasing anything from PetSafari.

2) Smell. The smell coming from the dog section really is terrible. That alone stop me from walking into the store. Lesser people walking in means lesser people browsing and purchasing.

I feel PetSafari could be done up better now. This trade need to be in control of itself. The farm should sell to the the lfs as a regular customer . The lfs then should sell to the public. Trying to outdo the other lfs is a waste of time and money. Each lfs must have it's own niche to stay competitive.

[XnSdVd]

Pardon the brashness of my youth but the pet safari really sucks.
They have multiple tanks stocking the same fish. The guy tried to sell me amazon swords when I asked if they had hair grass. And when I finally found it they charged me $2.50 for a small clump that could fit into a film canister. If you ask me, the small shop nearby(Exit Psafari from the fish side, walk under the MRT station between the row of shops, keep looking left) has more variety and MUCH better prices(hair grass there as a only 50c).

[hwchoy]

but petsafari doesn't sell food, what.

[BFG]

Behind the long tank is their beverage outlet, or used to be.

[hwchoy]

you mean outside the door? maybe it is not owned by petsafari but some other shop?

[eric_kclee]

[QUOTE=BFG]You guys forgotten the ONE place where there are cafe and lfs similar to the BKK ones. PETSAFARI! [QUOTE]

Hallo,
Plantas is Gone,
EcoCulture is Gone,
Lake Aquaraium is Gone,
Pian Yi Dao Xiao (Cheap till mad) is Gone,
Those are the shop that I frequent visit as they are in the central of SG. But there are all gone now....so sad

NOW, SamYick at PETSAFARI is going to shut down at the end of AUG'05 too.

We used to have an LFS list, Should we have a list of closed shop as well? so that we don't ended up reaching the shop with door shut?

[|squee|]

Sam yick... I don't wonder why they can't make it. The last time I was there... prices were well... rather high. I'd browse, but I didn't see many people at the shop everytime I was there.

Ecoculture is still around, it's merged with Cichlids Forever at it's shop.

Regarding Gratiola, I remember now one of the thoughts I had about the shop at the beginning; I felt the shop was too "isolated" from busy browsers. I don't suppose there's a active stream of people passing by Gratiola at that place. If for example, Gratiola relocates to say... a popular heartland shopping mall, I'm pretty sure there'll be much more attention.

Their number of display tanks are fantastic, and I'm sure the staff can be improved as well. Most of the time I went there, it was either the shop was closed, or there was only a sole person there. It's pretty uncomfortable to step all alone into a quiet air-conditioned shop and have one stranger greet you if you get my vibe. Otherwise I felt really comfortable when there were lots of people around.

[Justikanz]

GenX closed down also... (Unless someone here knows where Thomas Lim is now...)

But at least Gratiola and Plantas still decide to carry on on-line... But wonder how's that going to do well?...

About Terence's comments on Gratiola, I agree. It's too out of the way. Many retail shops at Cantonment Rd had closed down... The concept of the shop is good, but if only there could be a better location...

Staff wise, I guess they have no choice... They are all working full time somewhere else (if I didn't remember wrongly)... That's why they always encourage us to call before going... Hey, at least they are friendly!

Oh well, one more LFS closed...