Holey new leaves

[GaspingGurami]

I have a high light, high CO2 planted tank, 24Lsmall, 12wpg, densely planted (therefore bright lights needed for bottom plants). Trice a week I feed 20ppm Kno3, 11ppm Po4, and once a week they get 15ml TMG. There's coral chips in the filter.

My buffet results in
30-45ppm Co2
DGH 11 deg

Plants grow well but recently, my E. oriental started to grow deformed new leaves and they seem to also have large holes grown into them. These are natural holes and are not caused by something eating holes in them.

The plant is still prolific, putting forth 1-2 holey leaves a week. I can understand perhaps the deformed new leaves are caused by want of space to grow (it's cramped in there), but the holes?

Is there something that I am missing? or is there something preventing nutrient uptake? My plant's symptoms seem to indicate Boron. But at my kind of dosage for TMG, I'm reluctant to add more for fear of poisoning the livestock in chemical soup.

Please help. Thanks.

[vinz]

Deformity is not due to space constraint. It sounds like a nutrient deficiency.

Everything looks ok... except the PO4 is on the high side. Too much PO4 does not cause algae, however, it does affect the rate that the plant takes up NO3. The more PO4 you dose, the more NO3 the plant will take up or need. Since you are over-feeding everything else including TMG, the only thing that is short (recommended ratio wise) is actually NO3.

I suggest you cut down the PO4 to about 2 to 4 ppm. Looks like you're already dosing TMG at 6x the recommended dosage. Maybe you should cut that down by half... ie. does just 7ml per week.

Don't dose TMG on the same day as PO4. I'm hazy on the details, but PO4 and Fe (in the TMG) will cause one or the other to precipitate... or both. PeterGwee has the details on that. (Dose PO4 together with NO3).

[GaspingGurami]

Too much PO4 does not cause algae, however, it does affect the rate that the plant takes up NO3. The more PO4 you dose, the more NO3 the plant will take up or need.

You are right. I dose PO4 to stop algae. You see, too much livestock and too big a filter (eheim 2228 is almost the same size as my tank) has got me high on the NO3, therefore the heavy PO4 feeding.

I used to dose 3ml TMG weekly, but increased to this present amt in an effort to try to address the holey problem. The precipitation thing is interesting, thanks for the pointer. I've noticed the colour changing when I dump them all in a mixing bottle, but never thought more of it.

I'll half the TMG and dose them a day after PO4 and see what happens. Thanks Vinz.

[vinz]

Lawrence, stunting can be caused by shortage of NO3, so do have a look at your NO3 levels/ratios as well.

But alternate the PO4-TMG dosing days first before you mess with anything else so you know whether is that or something else.

[PeterGwee]

Go with less light. You don't need that much to grow plants well as long as there is enough intensity.

Do the macros and micros on alternate days (7-10ppm of NO3, 2ppm of PO4 and 2ml of TMG per dose.). If you still have issues, up the CO2 and tad bit and monitor the critters for the first day/plants for the week. Do 50-80% water changes per week and do the routine or whenever you see a lull in pearling rates.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[bclee]

There is 2 things that I feel uncomfortable about your tank.

Firstly, the 72W lighting seems a little over the top for the tiny 24L tank. I am not sure, but I suspect it might cause your plant to burn-up.

Secondly, personally, I do not really coral chips with that very high CO2. It will cause the coral chips to dissolve pretty fast. Since the ratio of K:Mg:Ca can be quite variable for coral chips, the plants might be lacking or blocked in uptaking one of them. I would have prefer to remove the coral chips and use stuff like Seachem Equilibrium. (1 bottle of that stuff probably will last you a lifetime for that 24L tank.)

Although your fertilisation seems not too far off, it is going to be a big challenge to maintain a small tank with high lights, high CO2, lots of plants. To maintain consistant nutrients level in a small volume of water with very high uptake is very difficult.

Have you ever thought of going CO2-less? It makes fertilising, triming & maintenance a lot easier. You can try keeping about 36W of lights and cutting off the CO2. If really needed, you can use alternative carbon source like Seachem Flourish Excel.

BC