How to setup a CO2 cylinder tank?

**hirowen** · 1st Sep 2005, 23:35

Hi forumers,

I have never use a CO2 cylinder tank before but i would like to have one. The problem is...

1.) How long can a 2 litres tank last?
2.) Is it a must to have a bubble counter?
3.) What is regulator?
4.) What is solenoid?

Thanks in advance

**eric_kclee** · 2nd Sep 2005, 13:00

1.) How long can a 2 litres tank last?
I use 1 bubble per sec, 5litre tank, use for 2 years, still have not finish. I think 2 litre can last 1 year at 1bps.

2.) Is it a must to have a bubble counter?
Not exactly neccessary, it just tell you how much CO2 you are pumping into the tank, since we can't view the volume of CO2, so use buble counting method. Usually everyone will have one, its not that expensive right? <$5

3.) What is regulator?
A pressure reducer that reduce CO2 tank pressure from 1000psi to 40psi
So that it will not burst the solenoid valve and needle valve.
It also regulate to keep the pressure reasonably constant.

4.) What is solenoid?
Solenoid, if you find dictionary, it only means a electrical coil. In forum, we usually cut short by saying solenoid, it should be 'solenoid valve'. It is an electrical instrument, when electrically charged, it will switch its state to ON/OFF. This is connected to the CO2 regulator and use together with a timer, it will switch the CO2 ON and OFF at desire intervals.

Some people also say Solenoid, but they actually means
'CO2 Regulator with Solenoid Valve.'

Last word "never... never.. never. buy a manual regulator" actually it should be called "Manual Valve"

How to tell a manual regulator?
Usually, I say usually..99% of the time
"it is less than S$60 and it comes with one Pressure Gauge"

**Goondoo** · 2nd Sep 2005, 15:07

Originally Posted by eric_kclee

Last word "never... never.. never. buy a manual regulator" actually it should be called "Manual Valve"

How to tell a manual regulator?
Usually, I say usually..99% of the time
"it is less than S$60 and it comes with one Pressure Gauge"

Hmmm.... let me try...
It doesn't comes with a electrical cable attached?

**eric_kclee** · 2nd Sep 2005, 20:54

Originally Posted by Goondoo

Hmmm.... let me try...
It doesn't comes with a electrical cable attached?

Don't quite agree,
A proper regulator can come without the solenoid.

You may be 80% correct, because only a few european brand sell without the solenoid.

**michael lai** · 2nd Sep 2005, 21:01

Hi Hirowen,
If you considering a Co2 set, you might want to take this into consideration also. A check valve or 1 way valve. This is to prevent water from back flowing into your Co2 cylinder. A simple but very useful and important valve, its cheap also.

**|squee|** · 2nd Sep 2005, 21:03

This is a manual regulator.

This is a regulator with solenoid attached (very unclear old picture, sorry about that)

**hirowen** · 2nd Sep 2005, 21:33

Originally Posted by eric_kclee

Last word "never... never.. never. buy a manual regulator" actually it should be called "Manual Valve"

How to tell a manual regulator?
Usually, I say usually..99% of the time
"it is less than S$60 and it comes with one Pressure Gauge"

hi eric,

thanks for spending ur time explaining to me.

btw what is the difference between manual regulator n normal regulator? is it that only normal regulator can be attach to a solenoid valve?

**hirowen** · 2nd Sep 2005, 21:45

Originally Posted by michael lai

Hi Hirowen,
If you considering a Co2 set, you might want to take this into consideration also. A check valve or 1 way valve. This is to prevent water from back flowing into your Co2 cylinder. A simple but very useful and important valve, its cheap also.

Thanks Michael! hehe..my christian name is michael too...michael cai

Terrence,
Thanks for ur pic too..it helps so much..but the thing is...if i do not wan to connect my regulator with a timer...i can juz use a manual regulator right?

**eric_kclee** · 2nd Sep 2005, 22:12

Originally Posted by hirowen

What is the difference between manual regulator n normal regulator? is it that only normal regulator can be attach to a solenoid valve?

if i do not want to connect my regulator with a timer...i can juz use a manual regulator right?

You are welcome, when I got started in this hobby, I learned the hard way(by spending $$ on the wrong thing), I know what your are thinking, I came from there, you need help!

Read carefully on my first post, if you call them both regulator, then they are no difference, except for w/ solenoid/ no solenoid.

BUT that is NOT TRUE.
Please use the exact term so people don't get confuse.

It should be called,
1. CO2 regulator + solenoid valve + needle valve
2. Manual CO2 throttle Valve (wrongly called as Manual regulator)

A regulator reduce the pressure with a proper diaphram ... too technical...
A manual valve reduce the pressure by constriction, which cause pressure to drop, but do not regulate at all, so you might, ummm..not might, you will experience inconsistant pressure, and resulted in inconsistant bubble rate, it is more so when the valve worn out.

Do a search on web, regulator schematic diagram or picture....if you can read technical drawing. If you don't understand then also no point for me to go even deeper. But don't do a search on Manual Regulator, you give it a wrong name, you get wrong information.

What ever you are asking, I know what you are thinking.
My Advice: Just buy a Proper Regulator.
It doesn't matter whether you connect or don't connect solenoid, connect or don't connect needle valve. It is still the same advice, Go buy a Proper regulator.

Don't ever connect needle valve or solenoid to manual valve(manual regulator), pressure is not regulated, HIGH risk.

LAST WORD

BUY A PROPER REGULATOR, get a stupid manual valve and you will regret (I guaranty).

**|squee|** · 2nd Sep 2005, 22:20

I agree wholeheartedly with eric. I bought my CO2 set with the manual valve included, and spent quite a bit on a special needle valve and many many days of tearing my hair out trying to control the bubble rate because manual valves simply cannot stay stable (some cases of it being stable are around though) and I had to lug the cannistor around and around to two different LFSes asking for advice.

I got tired of it, and bought a JBJ solenoid regulator, which is shown in my picture in my previous post. Now I've no problems controlling the bubble rate, and I can be pretty sure I'm getting quality.

If you do not want to connect it to a timer, I'm pretty sure you can remove the solenoid (I'm not sure here, perhaps the LFS can help you, after you buy the whole set of course). But the general reccomendation is that you shut off your CO2 at night. It isn't much trouble, just the solenoid connected to the same timer as the lights, and energy consumed should be negligible or very little. Shutting off the CO2 at night helps livestock in the tank (they need oxygen at night after all, plants and fish) and saves CO2.

Just for extra tidbits:

Internal diagram for a general regulator?

**hirowen** · 2nd Sep 2005, 22:37

hi eric,

i juz did a websearch regarding CO2 regulator. Depart of price differences, can i say that CO2 regulator normally have dual gauge whereas manual throttle valve only have single gauge?

**hirowen** · 2nd Sep 2005, 22:40

hi terence,

how much do u spend on the JBL solenoid regulator?

**|squee|** · 2nd Sep 2005, 22:48

Originally Posted by hirowen

hi eric,

i juz did a websearch regarding CO2 regulator. Depart of price differences, can i say that CO2 regulator normally have dual gauge whereas manual throttle valve only have single gauge?

Normally

But there are variations lah. So far I've seen this trend.

I got it for around $120. Pretty standard price for this German product. Taiwan/China brands are $100 or less, but personally I'd pay that extra $20. You can search up stories about how solenoids have gone faulty and all. Replacement was FOC for them though.

**hirowen** · 2nd Sep 2005, 23:19

Originally Posted by |squee|

Normally

But there are variations lah. So far I've seen this trend.

I got it for around $120. Pretty standard price for this German product. Taiwan/China brands are $100 or less, but personally I'd pay that extra $20. You can search up stories about how solenoids have gone faulty and all. Replacement was FOC for them though.

wow that was quite a sum.

hehe..looks like i have to save more money in order to get 1 le

when u bought that, does it comes along with the timer? or muz buy separately?

**eric_kclee** · 2nd Sep 2005, 23:19

Originally Posted by |squee|

I got it for around $120. Pretty standard price for this German product. Taiwan/China brands are $100 or less, but personally I'd pay that extra $20. You can search up stories about how solenoids have gone faulty and all. Replacement was FOC for them though.

I don't think JBJ is from German, more like Taiwan. It sound like an immitation of JBL. Don't get me wrong, I use JBJ also, so far no complain about it, spare parts like the solenoid valve is easily available also.

German Regulator alone cost around S$180 without needle valve and solenoid valve. German Solenoid valve also cost around S$120 each sold separately.

Usually we don't spend so much, so just go buy a 2 gauge regulator as a rough guide. Just a guide, the actual difference is not 1 or 2 gauges.

Timer sell separately, just the normal home use timer, German one cost $18.

**hirowen** · 2nd Sep 2005, 23:29

Originally Posted by eric_kclee

German Regulator alone cost around S$180 without needle valve and solenoid valve. German Solenoid valve also cost around S$120 each sold separately.

hehe i m abit confused le...

so is JBJ regulator comes along with needle valve and solenoid?

**|squee|** · 3rd Sep 2005, 00:05

Thanks eric!

hirowen, the JBJ one (commonly sold in our LFSes) comes with a solenoid and needle valve, and in some cases with a bubble counter attached.