Serious advice needed - Baclaya

[plantz]

Hi bros,

I have this very miserable and painful problem at hand. I have been getting balcaya into my tank. Even though I planted it in gently, with a monster root near its root and never disturb it. The plant still seems to die.

This is my 3rd attempt on my "love-at-first-sight" plant. I planted it a week ago. Admired its beauty with its 8 beautiful leaves for a week. Today when I gently touch its leaves. All of them detached. The bottom of the leaf stalks have rot and I can't even find the root bud.

My tank is a 4ft with the stats shown below. I think it's probably due to the change of environment which causes the rotting. Tomorrow I will be getting another plant to try.

Thus this next (maybe my last) plant I am getting tomorrow is very precious. Really need advices in how I can manage a successful introduction into my tank.

Thanks for reading my long-winded essay. Hope you guys won't feel such pain I'm feeling now.

[ranmasatome]

i dont know if your 4 ft has "all the right conditions" cos if it did... then technically the plant wont die on you.

i've had this plant for ages..and sometimes even have small baby ones.. i've planted it in relatively dark areas and also very bright areas..and all my plants are doing just fine.. so fine infact i have flowers every now and then. its not a hard plant at all..
if you want help then fill in the form for your tank stats.. otherwise..how to help?

[plantz]

Tank Dimensions (LxWxH, specify units):4x2x2ft

Lighting Intensity(No of Watts) :2x55+2x36w
Number and type of Lighting (FL/PL/MH) :PL
Age of light bulbs :6mths
No. of hours your lights are on :8hrs

CO2 Injection Rate (bps) :4
Type of CO2 (DIY/Cylinder) :cylinder
Method of Injection (e.g. Diffusor/Reactor) :external reactor

Liquid fertilisers Used (Product name. E.g. Seachem Flourish) :
Dr Mallick's Entire Package

Fertilization regime (Frequency and amount per dose) :
Once a Week
Use chuck's as a guide for the salts. But for macro and mirco slightly more than specified.

Other fertilisers (Product name. E.g. Root Monster) :
Root monster, Aquatic Compost, JBL base fert

Other additives (Product name. E.g. Seachem Prime) :

Type of Filter (overhead/internal/canister, Product name/model if possible) :
Atman 3338 canister

When was the filter last washed :4mths since its new

Filter media used : Biohome/rings mostly, sponge and cotton medium

When was the media last changed : 4mths

What was changed : Totally New Started with nutrifin biocycle

Age of setup (i.e. since initial setup or last major re-do ) : 4mth plus

Water change frequency : Once a fortnight

Amount changed : 50%

Water surface movement (None/gentle/turbulent) : Gentle

Circulation (None/gentle/turbulent) :Gentle

Tank Temperature : 27deg

Chemical Properties (Fill what you can)
-------------------------------------
KH (dKH): 3
GH (dGH):
pH : 6.6
NH4 (ppm):
NO2 (ppm):
NO3 (ppm):
PO4 (ppm):
Fe (ppm):

Bioload (Number and type of fish and plants)
50 tetras, mostly taiwan moss, java ferns, nanas and hairgrass. 1 tiger lotus, some crypts.
------------------------------------------

Describe your problem : As mention above. Thanks.

[plantz]

i dont know if your 4 ft has "all the right conditions" cos if it did... then technically the plant wont die on you.

i've had this plant for ages..and sometimes even have small baby ones.. i've planted it in relatively dark areas and also very bright areas..and all my plants are doing just fine.. so fine infact i have flowers every now and then. its not a hard plant at all..
if you want help then fill in the form for your tank stats.. otherwise..how to help?

Thanks for the comment. Have done the form.

Well I have grown a barclaya from a seed from teo before in the tank a year ago. It grew very huge and have many flower sprouting out too. However after a major rescape, I shifted the plant, the leaves began detaching one after another, in the end, nothing was left. Thus I deduced that its due to a change of environment or movement of the plant that causes the rotting.

[PeterGwee]

Maybe you would like to tell us in detail on the nutrients you are dosing since Dr Mallick does have a huge line of products. Side note...Add more CO2, you don't have enough. Target 30ppm and then add more CO2 till adding more no longer help improve plant growth or the critters get stressed. (Do the CO2 incremental method slowly. Bump it up a tad each week and then watch the critters and plants for the week and repeat so on and fore.) You have a big tank so flow patterns are more important. (Try to get the current evenly spread out in the tank. A spraybar along the bottom back is a good method.)

Regards
Peter Gwee

[plantz]

Maybe you would like to tell us in detail on the nutrients you are dosing since Dr Mallick does have a huge line of products. Side note...Add more CO2, you don't have enough. Target 30ppm and then add more CO2 till adding more no longer help improve plant growth or the critters get stressed. (Do the CO2 incremental method slowly. Bump it up a tad each week and then watch the critters and plants for the week and repeat so on and fore.) You have a big tank so flow patterns are more important. (Try to get the current evenly spread out in the tank. A spraybar along the bottom back is a good method.)

Regards
Peter Gwee

Thanks for the comment.

KNO3 1tsp
KH2PO4 0.5tsp
KCl 1tsp
MgSO4 2tbsp

Macro 5 cupful (those secheam bottle caps)
Micro 1tsp~5ml

From chuck's, then a little of my own trial and error.

For the CO2, I switch on the soleniod 2hrs before the lights are on and off 2 hrs before the lights off. Because the CO2 kind of dissolves at a relatively slower rate compared to the pumping in of CO2. The 2hrs before the lights off is because it takes 2hrs for the CO2 accumulated then to dissolve by the time the lights off. So far no BBA or algae of any sort. Only a little those on the glass.

Should I still up my CO2? Is this method of pumping CO2 acceptable? Please advice. Thanks.

Regarding the flow. The spraybar is one with only one outlet right? Like a normal pipe. Yes I have it at the bottom right rear spraying to the left.

[ranmasatome]

Theres your problem... i agee with peter.. AND your fert regime looks a little outta whack. If you calculate it all out using chucks nutrient calculator and an online fert for the chemicals, LGA and LGM dosed..

Assuming you dose only once a week like you say...
1)you are only dosing LESS than 10ppm of NO3 weekly which makes for about 1-1.5ppm of no3 per day which i dont feel is enough if your tank is densly planted.
2) Calculated K is about 20ppm per week..which i guess is okay but i dont understand why you dose KCl?? just dose the KNo3 in higher amounts..it'll provide both the K and No3 you need...and you dont introduce the nasty cl- into your tank as well..
3) I think you can also stop the MgSo4.. dont need so much Mg in your tank.. its unlikely since you dose only once a week but sometimes too much Mg can be a bad thing. Since you dose LGA and LGM you can just use that for the Mg
4) not close to enough dosing of LGA and LGM.. if you dose 25ml and 5ml respectively WEEKLY then the iron is waaaaaaaay low...if i'm not worng its around 0.3 for the enitre week.. if i was the barclaya i also will rot and die.

i know your light regime is not too strong for a 4 ft so you dont have to dose too much.. but after you have dealt with the co2 issue.. try hitting for these values..

No3 - 20-30ppm weekly... just use Kno3 for this.. your k will fall in nicely... more doesnt really hurt..otherwise also aim for around this mark for K.
Po4 - yours now is okay..maybe can increase a little more..0.5 tsp after water change then mid week another 0.5tsp
Fe - try to hit 0.5-1ppm weekly

[bclee]

I have been growing Barclaya longifolia both "green" & "red" for quite some time now.

While planting, do not bury the tuber too deep. Remove all rotting roots or part of the tuber. Expose a little of the top of the tuber from the substrate.

This plant occassionally will go into a dormant state by shedding all the leaves and keeping some tiny leaves. It is normal of this plant and it is not due to nutrient problem. I still cannot figure when and why the plant go dormant. Typically, it does that after flowering. Usually, after a month or two or maybe more the plant will revive, sometimes with a few plantlets sprouting from the old tuber. During the dormant period, ensure that it is still receiving sufficient light.

This plant is also not very fussy about fertilisation. It is when the leaves start to become "holey", you need to tweak the fertilisation. Otherwise, a mature substrate with some nutrients will supply the needs of the plant very well.

My Barclaya is growing too big now and is shading and killing some of my other plants under it. I am actually waiting for it to go to "sleep" again to give my other plants a chance.

BC

[PeterGwee]

Thanks for the comment.

KNO3 1tsp
KH2PO4 0.5tsp
KCl 1tsp
MgSO4 2tbsp

Macro 5 cupful (those secheam bottle caps)
Micro 1tsp~5ml

From chuck's, then a little of my own trial and error.

For the CO2, I switch on the soleniod 2hrs before the lights are on and off 2 hrs before the lights off. Because the CO2 kind of dissolves at a relatively slower rate compared to the pumping in of CO2. The 2hrs before the lights off is because it takes 2hrs for the CO2 accumulated then to dissolve by the time the lights off. So far no BBA or algae of any sort. Only a little those on the glass.

Should I still up my CO2? Is this method of pumping CO2 acceptable? Please advice. Thanks.

Regarding the flow. The spraybar is one with only one outlet right? Like a normal pipe. Yes I have it at the bottom right rear spraying to the left.

The NO3 is fine, PO4 is a tad too rich but still fine. Drop the KCL and MgSO4. Use Seachem Equilibrium if you want to bump up the GH at 1 teaspoon only after a large water change.

For the CO2, try change the placement of the return line for the CO2 rich water. Place the spraybar along the entire bottom back of the tank pointing forward and slightly down (not stirring the substrate) to send the CO2 rich water under the plants stomata. Clean the mechanical section of the filter only so as to keep the flow rate up. Give the plants a week or so and see if you get a good response (good pearling rates). If not, you can add a tad more say 4.1-4.2bps and monitor for a week. Repeat the step if necessary till you get nice pearling or the critters get stressed and then back off. (Make sure your bubble rate remains constant and not move around!)

Regards
Peter Gwee

[plantz]

Thanks for all the useful comments.

I met Juggler this afternoon and chatted regarding this matter. Haha... It's kind of funny though. With this topic and so many views. We have decided to let the plant rest in it's pot for the time being in my tank before implanting into the gravel.

ranmasatome, you mentioned that NO3 should be 20-30ppm. It's stated in the chuck's calculater that the recommended is 5ppm. Is the calculator meant for weekly doses? Or how is it used. How am I suppose to up K to 20ppm when NO3 will exceed 30ppm when using only KNO3. Kindly enlighten. Thanks.

Peter Gwee, I'm I right to say that I am to point the spray front-ward. Won't this prevent the plants on the left to be deprived of the CO2 enriched water, since the pipe is on the right most? Please advice.

BC, thanks for the tips in caring of the plant when planting. Will be careful to plant not too deep.

Thanks again for all the useful advices.

These are the steps I'm going to take:-
1. Stop the usage of KCL and MgSO4.
2. Up the dosage of KNO3 to 1 TBsp weekly.
3. Up the dosage of 50ml LGA and 20ml of LGM weekly.
4. Up my CO2 t0 4.1bps
5. Cleanse my filter.

Feel free to comment on. Thanks.

[ranmasatome]

hi Plantz,
what you say wont happen because if you dose, say your 1TBsp of Kno3 for the week.. it will give you 22ppm of no3 for your tank and only 14ppm of K. Which is a nice start..

If you're dosing that much LGM, i would stop the LGA totally because everything is already taken care of.. the extra LGA you dose (80ml) will give you an additional 10ppm of k and 5ppm of no3.. if that doesn't bother you then by all means..

[plantz]

Hi guys,
An update on the barclaya i planted a 3 weeks ago and advices needed.

The Red Barclaya came with 4 small 2 inches dull greenish leaves. This time, I planted the tuber very close to the surface with a monster root under its roots. I have done some changes to my dosage which I would describe later. For the 1st 3 weeks or so. The plant was totally dormant and with the current leaves being torn down bits by bits. Not sure the cause.

During the 4th week, a very same distinct reddish leave formed. However, as days goes by, it turns to the dull green. How do I keep it red and grow more rapidly? Please advice. The fert regime is shown below. Thks.

Dr Mallick's ferts
KNO3 1TBsp
KH2PO4 0.5tsp
Macro 40ml
Micro 30ml

I am currently using 4x55w lights without stands. However, this lights have been used for approximately 8 mths. Should I change the tubes yet as I am afraid of a BBA breakout and currently many plants have just been introduced and growing generally slowly.

[Phillipians]

IMO, i feel for a 4 x 2 x 2 ft tank, you can even up the lights to 6 x 55 or use your 4 x 55 then add the 2 x 36 W too, that should suffice. I m assuming the majority of your plants to be fast growing stem plants and some other here and there.

It has been discussed before that some pple up their Iron, by dosing seachem Fe and also lower the NO3 to obtain the desired blood red. However, i believe that Fe and stong lights should be able to get the plants to the desired red that you would like to have. Well, you can also up the dosage of LGM to increase Fe, as long as not too much it should not have any drastic effects on the tank

hope it helps.