Advertisements
Aquatic Avenue Banner Tropica Shop Banner Fishy Business Banner

View Poll Results: Are FOC stuff hurting the LFS?

Voters
40. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, we should charge the same price for the stuff as lfs!

    2 5.00%
  • It depends on what plants are offered but should be less than lfs!

    12 30.00%
  • Just a token sum would do!

    10 25.00%
  • Nah, too little to have a effect on the lfs, FOC okay!

    16 40.00%
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 33 of 33

Thread: FOC stuff hurting lfs

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    836
    Feedback Score
    0
    Images
    63
    Country
    Singapore
    Advertisements
    Fresh n Marine aQuarium Banner

    Advertise here

    Advertise here
    I'm very surprised that the profit margin for some of the items at lfs is so little. I thought that in retailing the markup would usually be at least be 100%.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Old Airport Road
    Posts
    1,890
    Feedback Score
    0
    Images
    67
    Country
    Singapore
    I have personally given quite large amount of plants to my LFS owners, each time I do my best to sort them, trim away the yellow/dying leaves as much as I could, and I make sure there were no algae. Even though I do not know whom the plants will be given to, i treat it as if I will be giving it to a friend, which is why I did the sorting/cleaning.

    The LFS owner was appreciative, he even mentioned so-and-so (another customer who i don't really know) would be happy coz he's looking for the plants. On other occassions, the owner would ask me if i wanted some plants which he just received from other customers.

    I do agree that it can be quite embarrassing and fustrating if you were to do that and the LFS owner is not appreciative or not knowledgable enough to see the 'good stuff' you're passing to them. So i am going to tell you guys the LFS which I passed the plants to, so that at least for guys living nearby, you can safely know that the owner will be appreciative, the LFS i visited is Kingfisher at Geylang.

    Anyway, i do agree with Green Baron that FOC stuff are not doing as much damage to LFS as those LFS owners that are undercutting their profits and selling at crazy prices, or distributors that are doing direct sales.. but if you think about it, if you place your FOC stuff at LFS, you can help to bring the customers back to the LFS, and hopefully, they will do other shopping while they are there.. this is just my views lah.

    Of course there are stuff which you have to give out online lah.. like used gravel, old tanks etc, this one no choice lah.

    Cheers!

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    277
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Country
    Singapore
    I used to give a lot of my plants and fishes to Choong Sua before it closes down. For me, it is a pity, because it is a very nice shop selling pretty unique fishes. The owner is also very generous, often sharing his cuttings and when he receives new plants, he will trade with me. Unfortunately, he couldn't meet his numbers, and have to shut down his shop.

    My feel is that, it has become difficult for shop owners dealing in plant sales, but for fishes, it is still fine.

    Let me give an economic twist to this argument. Most shops used to be able to enjoy some monopolistic competition advantage through product differentiation (ie. selling slightly varied plants) and by virtue of their proximity to individual clusters of planted hobbyist. With that, these shop owners tend still make some profit for plants.

    With the proliferation of accomplished hobbyist being able to cultivate exquisite plants at negligible cost (since they keep these plants anyway), the hobbyist has come out as a low cost supplier, greatly suppressing the price (eg. various types of once exotic moss). Shops still largely receive their plants from farms, which means their unit cost is higher than the hobbyist. In addition, the willingness of hobbyist/fellow forummers to deliver reduce the shoe leader cost that might have given the friendly neighborhood fish-shop it once held advantage.

    In my humble opinion, it is a change in market structure, due to ready supply at low cost. From a consumer standpoint, it is great. It is an economic phenomenon, which is difficult to stop. Depending on what you believe in: demand will create supple or Say's Law: Supply creates its own demand. Either way, this phenomenon looks set to continue.

    My fear is, like pirated CDs, whose artiste are vehemently protesting against, the very lively online market which we pratronized may one day work against us by in that shops (which we are still very much reliant on for new plants) no longer wishes to take in new plants, because the cost to do so is high, but the duration in which they are able to earn abnormal profits are short. In the software world context, piracy hinders innovation.

    For fishes, shops are still doing fine, because not many hobbyist has mastered breeding, hence the problem is less severe. There are still shops who made a pile selling fishes in vogue (eg. the infamous LH). However, as competition heats up with fellow fish shops, profit margin reduces. Also, just how many fishes can we keep! There is some saturation point in my opinion.

    I used to think that there is one particular concentration of fish shops which seems to have some "cartel" arrangements and that they do not undercut each other. In contrast, at other places, we see 2 neighbors having price wars. Very interesting market I must say.

    Just my 2 cents worth. Hope it didnt bore you
    ----------------------------

    do not do to others what you will not want done to you!

    be kind! =)

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Bedok North
    Posts
    1,354
    Feedback Score
    0
    Images
    36
    Country
    Singapore
    I doubt the FOC stuffs floating in our forum would hurt any LFS's pocket deeply. There are still people out there that is paying something like $100-$200 bucks for a nice piece of driftwood covered in moss. Having said that, the old saying goes. You can't please everybody but here's food for thought. We are about the biggest player in ornamental fish and aquatic plants but you don't see us singaporeans winning international competition here and there. Its about the marketing!! people and education. Look at Taiwan, HongKong and Japan. I think we take alot for granted over here and the exposure is kinda more for commerce than personal hobby.

    But on a brighter note, I think we are ready for a change. The changing of hands from old guard to new. People are more 'open' to ideas and the reach of the internet is ever growing. I say stand out and be counted, serious hobbists, share and educate. The end result can only be good and future the ever more brighter.

    Just some grumbling from a middle age old man don't have to be too serious.
    Something about the water & the fishes that calms me down.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    360
    Feedback Score
    0
    Images
    10
    Country
    Singapore
    i think what is hurting the LFS, in particular those specialising in aquatic plants and the like is the abundance of information online. The main culprit, if it were a truely negative thing, is the knowledge of proper fertilising regime. it is the reason why there is lots of FOC stuff on line to giveaway in the first place.

    and first, while it is FOC but not truly free because someone has incurred a cost.

    with the presence of a proper fertilising regime, and advice, plants are easily propagated. in the absence of proper fertilising regime, people just keep going to the LFS to buy the plants if they are really hardcore, or listen to advice that may or may not be commercially profitable to the LFS owner. In some cases, they have no idea.

    that is not to implicate forums into the picture, nor dwell into a topic that has been discussed. i believe that quality of forums vary and that it is the inevitability of rapid dissemination of information, which will have to be factored in in operations of any LFS.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Singapore, Pasir Ris
    Posts
    1,616
    Feedback Score
    0
    Images
    19
    Country
    Singapore
    I for one believe it's the sheer number of LFSs that sprang up since the LH craze. In pasir ris there are 2 shops within 2km of my house and that's not counting the farms in the area.

    And it's shops like this that label fish as "crown roach" How on earth are good places like Eco and biotope supposed to compete with their relatively low prices and convenience?

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Hougang
    Posts
    3,747
    Feedback Score
    0
    Images
    199
    Country
    Singapore
    But it is also that these shops will die first, imo.
    ~ Vincent ~ Fishes calm your mind...
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/valice/





  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Woodlands
    Posts
    440
    Feedback Score
    0
    Images
    13
    Country
    Singapore
    I always give away FOC plant and someone will come and collect, yet it subject to the distance , petrol or mrt/bus fare. So I think no everyone love FOC thing unless a 5ft cabinet tank set for FOC than nothing to say liao...

    Sometime I deliver to the mrt just becos I treat the walking distance as exercise and most important is do not aeroplane me. It happen once and I think the bro no sincere to buy my riccia and give reason that he reach and didn't see me so go off after 3 mins....blacklisted him and never ever want to meet such idiot lor.

    I do agree selling cheap 2nd thing will spoilt market value but it is used that's why cheap, maybe the LFS should consider buying 2nd stuff and resale it ??

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Western Singapore
    Posts
    905
    Feedback Score
    0
    Images
    4
    Country
    Singapore
    Does anyone know if C328 is interested in FOC plants ?

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Jurong
    Posts
    4,020
    Feedback Score
    0
    Images
    552
    Country
    Singapore
    No. Unless you are offering mosses. C328 MAY accept Echis, though. But they dun accept stemmed and floating plants.

    But I think they will accept RARE ones. Aunty display the rare plants she bought from hobbyists in the front plant tanks.
    Read me! :bigsmile: http://justikanz.blogspot.com/

    I'm crypt collecting... Starting cheap, now have Cryptocoryne beckettii, C.beckettii var petchii, C.crispatula var.balansae, C.griffithii(Melted! ), C.nurii, C.parva, C.pygmaea(Melted! ), C.tonkinensis(Melted! ), C.walkeri, C.wendtii 'Brown', C.wendtii 'Green', C.wendtii 'Green Gecko', C.wendtii 'Tropica' and Cryptocoryne x willisii

    Oh, juggling is hard work, man!...

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    197
    Feedback Score
    0
    Images
    1
    Country
    Singapore
    Hi folks,

    Thanks for this very thoughtful thread. Never thought about the implications of giving FOC stuff. Though... I don't think it will hurt the LFS simply because as far as I know, the greater proportion of hobbyists are in fact still not online! I know quite a number personally... some are working as computer engineers etc.

    In any case, i have found that many who came to collect FOC things i offered have been very appreciative. One hobbyist who got excited about planted tank after receiving some plants from me have been buying plants from the LFS and farms and bringing a portion and leaving at my door!

    Asking for a token is a double-edged sword. Some simply don't want because they are not sure what to give. Some would give so much that it can be a little embarrassing... though of course, I am grateful for their generosity.

    I never thought about giving excess plants to the LFS, and will certainly try to do so at my next trimming.

    Thanks again.

    /John

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Western Singapore
    Posts
    905
    Feedback Score
    0
    Images
    4
    Country
    Singapore
    Quote Originally Posted by Justikanz
    No. Unless you are offering mosses. C328 MAY accept Echis, though. But they dun accept stemmed and floating plants.

    But I think they will accept RARE ones. Aunty display the rare plants she bought from hobbyists in the front plant tanks.
    That is the problem. Sometimes, it is easier to just throw the plant away

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Jurong
    Posts
    4,020
    Feedback Score
    0
    Images
    552
    Country
    Singapore
    Yup. I will usually offer FOC to the forumers, no one collect, then offer to my Sultan Fish... *Sigh*...
    Read me! :bigsmile: http://justikanz.blogspot.com/

    I'm crypt collecting... Starting cheap, now have Cryptocoryne beckettii, C.beckettii var petchii, C.crispatula var.balansae, C.griffithii(Melted! ), C.nurii, C.parva, C.pygmaea(Melted! ), C.tonkinensis(Melted! ), C.walkeri, C.wendtii 'Brown', C.wendtii 'Green', C.wendtii 'Green Gecko', C.wendtii 'Tropica' and Cryptocoryne x willisii

    Oh, juggling is hard work, man!...

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •