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View Poll Results: Are FOC stuff hurting the LFS?

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  • Yes, we should charge the same price for the stuff as lfs!

    2 5.00%
  • It depends on what plants are offered but should be less than lfs!

    12 30.00%
  • Just a token sum would do!

    10 25.00%
  • Nah, too little to have a effect on the lfs, FOC okay!

    16 40.00%
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Thread: FOC stuff hurting lfs

  1. #1
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    FOC stuff hurting lfs

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    This has been in my thoughts for some time; not so much on cheap used stuff like gravel etc... but do you guys think giving away plants and fishes FOC hurting the lfs. Let me know your thoughts on this.
    Last edited by Fei Miao; 5th Jan 2006 at 14:12.

  2. #2
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    I don't think it's too much of an issue. Plants and fishes are what most lfs do no make much money from. They make most of their money from selling equipment and tanks.
    Correct me if I'm wrong.
    Click here to help me make my Fish Room Project a reality!

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    I believe yes... A lot of times, we hear stuff like 'Are you getting from so and so? Cheaper, right? Then dun buy here lah.' Or 'Wah, so ex here, so and so give for free leh...' etc... I myself am guilty sometimes with the more common plants...

    Problem is, if I start to asking for a token, no one will want the plants. So, I give FOC so as not to waste the plant by having to throw it away...

    But for fish, I'd prefer to get from the shops... Shrimps, however, seem to be of a better quality when home bred...
    Read me! :bigsmile: http://justikanz.blogspot.com/

    I'm crypt collecting... Starting cheap, now have Cryptocoryne beckettii, C.beckettii var petchii, C.crispatula var.balansae, C.griffithii(Melted! ), C.nurii, C.parva, C.pygmaea(Melted! ), C.tonkinensis(Melted! ), C.walkeri, C.wendtii 'Brown', C.wendtii 'Green', C.wendtii 'Green Gecko', C.wendtii 'Tropica' and Cryptocoryne x willisii

    Oh, juggling is hard work, man!...

  4. #4
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    No... giving away plants and fishes FOC is just one way of encouraging newbies to try this fascinating hobby.
    After receiving FOC plants and fishes you'll still need to go to lfs to buy fishfood, fertilizer, etc. to keep them alive!
    Last edited by 8golden88; 9th Jan 2006 at 11:57.

  5. #5
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    Yes, i agreed in giving away stuff FOC to encourage newbies to get started in the hobby, I do that also. But where should the line be where we should start some charging for the stuff?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fei Miao
    Yes, i agreed in giving away stuff FOC to encourage newbies to get started in the hobby, I do that also. But where should the line be where we should start some charging for the stuff?

    Its a hobby.
    I strongly encourage recycling usable stuffs.
    Its a culture which is lacking in Singapore I think.
    How many times we see people dumping usable 'STUFFS' at the void decks?

    I think giving away / selling second hand equipments encourages someone with a lower budget to start trying out the hobby too...
    Which of us stopped at 1 tank? We usually get more and more......and most of the time from the shops right?

    I got my first tanks free from my neighbour. And spent alot more than I intended to on the lfs after that.....

    I personally prefer to get plants from hobbyists for 2 reasons:
    1) The plants are usually much healthier and easier to find less common plants.
    2) I can ask more about the requirement of the plant and id them better.
    ~Chyrl~

    向来如此便是对吗?
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  7. #7
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    Plants, yes. A lot of LFS sell emersed plants and it take some time and melting to get the plants to grow submersed. The plants from fellow hobbyists are almost always already grown submersed.
    Read me! :bigsmile: http://justikanz.blogspot.com/

    I'm crypt collecting... Starting cheap, now have Cryptocoryne beckettii, C.beckettii var petchii, C.crispatula var.balansae, C.griffithii(Melted! ), C.nurii, C.parva, C.pygmaea(Melted! ), C.tonkinensis(Melted! ), C.walkeri, C.wendtii 'Brown', C.wendtii 'Green', C.wendtii 'Green Gecko', C.wendtii 'Tropica' and Cryptocoryne x willisii

    Oh, juggling is hard work, man!...

  8. #8
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    Can give some examples what are the stuff you would deem as FOC, and what are the stuff you would ask for some form of token?

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    Nowadays I give away stuff TO the lfs or folks I already know well. My experience has been that when things are free, people take things too much for granted and don't bother to see beyond the dollars and cents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fei Miao
    Can give some examples what are the stuff you would deem as FOC, and what are the stuff you would ask for some form of token?
    FOC: Maybe some common fish which has already outgrown my small tank?
    Its easier to find them a better home since you choose their next owner...(kind of).

    Token:
    Most equipments unless I am really in a good mood to clear them for space only and not looking for upgrading.
    ~Chyrl~

    向来如此便是对吗?
    Live each moment like its the last

  11. #11
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    I think it is only right that one gets a token for giving something. It should not be a free lunch. Budak's right... Some people can start to take things for granted...

    However, it is also not right to sell stuff that you got free in the first place.

    Anyway, I prefer to sell or sometimes give my stuff to LFS before opening up to the forum. Just that sometimes, the LFS also dun want cos they dun have the time to sort the stuff out or they already have regular suppliers liao...
    Read me! :bigsmile: http://justikanz.blogspot.com/

    I'm crypt collecting... Starting cheap, now have Cryptocoryne beckettii, C.beckettii var petchii, C.crispatula var.balansae, C.griffithii(Melted! ), C.nurii, C.parva, C.pygmaea(Melted! ), C.tonkinensis(Melted! ), C.walkeri, C.wendtii 'Brown', C.wendtii 'Green', C.wendtii 'Green Gecko', C.wendtii 'Tropica' and Cryptocoryne x willisii

    Oh, juggling is hard work, man!...

  12. #12
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    It's also not unheard of that some people actually resell items that they received FOC.... and have I ever mentioned the guy who came to my place once after I offered a free pail of Lonestar gravel, and who thought the stuff wasn't good enough for his luohan???

  13. #13
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    That's his beloved LH... Beauty is to the eye of the beholder lor... Can't fault him for loving a LH...

    But, yah, I understand the feeling... Give you free you still choosy... *Grumbles*... That's the main reason why I stopped patronising a particular 24-hr LFS at Clementi...
    Read me! :bigsmile: http://justikanz.blogspot.com/

    I'm crypt collecting... Starting cheap, now have Cryptocoryne beckettii, C.beckettii var petchii, C.crispatula var.balansae, C.griffithii(Melted! ), C.nurii, C.parva, C.pygmaea(Melted! ), C.tonkinensis(Melted! ), C.walkeri, C.wendtii 'Brown', C.wendtii 'Green', C.wendtii 'Green Gecko', C.wendtii 'Tropica' and Cryptocoryne x willisii

    Oh, juggling is hard work, man!...

  14. #14
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    Back in the days when I was keeping fast growing plants, I would give my trimmings to the LFS owner in my area, I always told the owner, 'if you can sell it for a profit, sell it, if not, give to other hobbists'

    I strongly encourage you guys to do the same. For one, even if the LFS owner feels that it is unethical to resell FOC stuff he received from you, he could actually give it for free to his customers and in a way encourage them to return to his shop when they need other products. Even if he really do sell the stuff for a profit, so what? This profit that he receive could be used to offset his loss on those fishes he brought in who died during quarantine (most of the time it's not enough to offset anyway)

    In the long run, everyone wins, you achieve your purpose of getting rid of your excess trimmings, your LFS can hopefully have more customers, as a result of that, the prices at the LFS could be kept low.

    I also encountered cases when customers bring their fishes which had outgrown their tank to the LFS, then top up some money and bring home other fishes, sort of like doing a trade-in for other fishes. Of coz this is provided the LFS owner agrees lah.

    Cheers!

  15. #15
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    IMO, its not those who are giving FOC stuff that is hurting the lfs, but those who are undercutting the prices. See the B&S section

    best example is plants, some buy and cultivate then resell at a cheaper price, the other fellow do the same... result = bottom of the pit

    so, if u want the industry to thrive and survive, please do your part by not killing the industry ;P.

  16. #16
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    Bossteck, provided the LFS wants it. I got an irritating LFS co-owner who didn't even look properly and dismissed me by saying rather loudly, 'The plants are turning yellow, don't want.' And he makes it look like chasing me away like dat... I was quite embarassed as all I wanted was to give the plants to him so he can sell them. I was so angry with him... Whenever he is around, i will NOT buy anything from his shop... Anyway, not that his stock is cheap OR good... *Grumbles...*
    Read me! :bigsmile: http://justikanz.blogspot.com/

    I'm crypt collecting... Starting cheap, now have Cryptocoryne beckettii, C.beckettii var petchii, C.crispatula var.balansae, C.griffithii(Melted! ), C.nurii, C.parva, C.pygmaea(Melted! ), C.tonkinensis(Melted! ), C.walkeri, C.wendtii 'Brown', C.wendtii 'Green', C.wendtii 'Green Gecko', C.wendtii 'Tropica' and Cryptocoryne x willisii

    Oh, juggling is hard work, man!...

  17. #17
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    i dont think so, because i as a first hand purchaser have to first buy it FROM the LFS... so the LFS still makes first.. its just that after a while i want to upgrade or change equpiment. its up to me whether i want to give it FOC or not.. the loss is mine to absorb, not the LFSs'. if i give away a filter..i will still have to buy another to replace that one.. so it works out.

    As for plants and fishes.. haiz.. dont want to say... some pple are just damn " chao quan" . so i just purchase all of mine from the lfs...except maybe for the harder to find ones...sometimes because the hobby can be quite specific its much easier to get it from a fellow friend then to drive to like 15 lfs just looking for that one plant..

  18. #18
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    I don't think giving FOC stuff is the major reason why lfs are closing down.
    If you look around, lfs which are doing well are those which can offer one stop shop solution and wide variety of equipment or fishes - C328, Ben, N.A. etc I think it is difficult for lfs to survive retailing only plants. Plants are cheap and people usually don't spend as much on plant compared to fish and equipment.

    The problem with giving away things FOC is sometimes they end up with people who don't really need them and they go to waste. I think it is better to charge a nominal amount or do an exchange.

    I would like to give plants to lfs but I have heard stories similar to what Justikanz related so I have not approach any lfs. May be AQ can help to identify a few lfs in different parts of Singapore which will buy or take foc plants ?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    IMO, its not those who are giving FOC stuff that is hurting the lfs, but those who are undercutting the prices. See the B&S section

    best example is plants, some buy and cultivate then resell at a cheaper price, the other fellow do the same... result = bottom of the pit

    so, if u want the industry to thrive and survive, please do your part by not killing the industry ;P.
    I agree with Simon. There are people who undercut the lfs and they do it regularly. They get some plants and multiply the numbers and sell them cheaper. The lfs will wonder how come the price has to be brought down to encourage people to buy. I don't mind if a person sells it because the plants in his tank are growing and he trims them and offer it for sale but to purposely grow them to sell it later is unethical. The results have been proven as the number of lfs has lessen. This is also the same with live stock such as fishes.
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  20. #20
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    Today, even though giving away free stuff is getting popular through internet, it is not hurting LFS to a close down stage. Giving away java moss and such is very popular in forums, and yet, LFS is selling them a couple of dollars, of course, there are willing buyers to pay, if not LFS will not sell.

    It is the competition among LFS hurting themselves, price slashes, cutting their profits and threatening their operation. A planted popular planted tank necessasity was selling close to $40 a year ago, today it is selling at $35, understand from a friend who had a closed-down shop, the profit that made from selling is merely $1 to $2. Why not sell at a reasonable profit level, every shop can earn a bit more and more shops can be supported. In the long run, we cannot get quality live stock, we cannot get quality parts, afterall quality comes with a price. Of course, we as comsumer, we want everything cheap, but in long run, we have to pay in some way.

    My experience with giving away free things are mixed, some people is apprcieative enough to come to door step to collect. Some will ask if can send to the control tower of my nearest MRT, some will make an appointment to call to collect but never happens.

    Can't be sure for the coming years, if trend of giving free things continue, LFS cut price (cut profit) to fight competitions and there is no new hobby trend, with the combination of the reasons, some LFS will be hurted especially those do not have innovative ideas that sells what hobbyists is selling or giving away for free.
    silane

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