Liquid Fert for red plants

[sonique]

wat type or brand do u guys use or is gd for red plants?? ie. to make the plants redder or at least keep the distinguish red colour....

[Justikanz]

Try Root Monster for the substrate. My Echinodoras 'Ruben' is sprouting very very red leaves now...

[PeterGwee]

Low stable NO3 levels will do it but can stunt the plant tips if you overdo it.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[Plantbrain]

Adobe Photoshop really makes plants redder.
Especially the "Hue" editor.

So do not base your impressions on the color based of a picture, only what you see in person.

Good general conditions allow the full color development ot occur, otherwise, it's a starved Nitrogen deficient plant.

You can see this by lowering the NO3 down to low levels.
This limits Chl a and b molecules, since they are Nitrogen rich, but not the red colors.

Add Fe does not add more red, there are no Fe molecules in those red pigments at all.

So the tips of plants often are redder, this is due to less Chl a and b, not because they are closer to the light. As the leaves develop more, they turn greener.

If you have lower light, you can maintain low NO3 without stunting the plants as much. In the deeper watwers I've found redder plants, and many that break the surfcce revert to green.

Many plants in the tropics deep shading etc are red, not green. There are few Cactus that are red also.




Regards,
Tom Barr

[StanChung]

tom,
may i know what is Chl a and b?

do plants not get a 'sun tan' reaction to bright light?

brighter lighting from what you're saying does not affect the colouration- in this case red plants? 'quote: Many plants in the tropics deep shading etc are red, not green. '

[PeterGwee]

Stan, its Chlorophyll a and b. Some good reading info

No, new shoots/leaves are red due to exposure of Anthocyanins where the chlorophyll has yet to form due to rapid growth. Some good reading info

Regards
Peter Gwee

[StanChung]

ooo, a bit of flashbacks of pre u... urk...nightmares coming...

[StanChung]

ok question...like if a plant is the red type eg tiger lotus...how to make it redder without lowering no3 AND photoshop.
what i'm curious is are there other factors involved? [other than genetic of course]


bright light as in uv light is mentioned as catalyst to speed up the production of anthocyanins to protect the plant. later less is needed when chlorophyll production begins...

it also states in acid conditions, anthocyanins turn red and in bases it turns blue.

[PeterGwee]

Paint it red I guess...

Don't read too much into it...aquatic plants are abit different. The info is more of land plants.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[Plantbrain]

Do you add UV to your tank?
I approach it from a non limiting approach, give the plant what it needs.

R. macrandra is very red, some are many plants.

Why folks want more color is really something we only care about, it does not impart a vision of plant health.

I see a very red plant and see the NO3 is low, I get worried.
It's not a skill to get plants to turn red using low NO3, rather, it's luck at being able to teter back and forth from almost stunting the plant and having enough there to keep up good growth.

The long term practical approach is tough.
You can do it for awhile, but most trash their tanks, get algae etc and give up.



Here some L pantanal from my tank here at home
It's prettyb red and about 3x as biggest as some stems I got once that were redder in color, but this is pretty red and much healthier and desirable.

Your quest might seem simple initially, but simply focusing on your plant's health is a better approach in the long run.

[StanChung]

peter: i'm quite familiar with erm painting things red...

tom: no i don't UV the plants but i find this discussion very interesting as i would like to know cause and effect as to avoid or get results.

btw those are very healthy looking plants.

[sonique]

so practically those liquid fert especially for red plants is not gonna help making plants any redder or retain the redness in it....??

[ranmasatome]

nope.basically..

[StanChung]

abandon that thought...have used it and with or without ...no eye popping dif.

[sonique]

so why is there a red plant liquid fert in the market?? wats the use of it?? its a trace element if i'm not wrong rite??

[|squee|]

Commericals are still deluded by myths. It's a trace element, iron basically. They keep saying iron is good for red plants. Read post number 4 by Tom Barr.

[Weirong]

I still believe that iron is gd for red plants today! So no?

[|squee|]

There's an easy way to find out!Get some red plants and dose iron like crazy in addition to your current fert regime and post the results back here in 2 weeks or so. If results prove Tom correct, I'd bet many of us here will be convinced once and for all.

[lorba]

I think you will need many more people to test and prove that the mentioned method works. At the same time, let's be open as there are many schools of taught. What works does not necessary means its the only way.

There must be reasons why commerical products eg AZOO, produces iron solutions for the purpose of growing red plants. Does it mean that their researches and scientists are incompetent or did they use other approaches to derive the result?

[Plantbrain]

I think you will need many more people to test and prove that the mentioned method works. At the same time, let's be open as there are many schools of taught. What works does not necessary means its the only way.

This let's also be open to the idea of "diet pill makers", snake oil vendors, wacky water filters, etc that bank on fake psuedo science, quackery, myths and suck $$$ out of the public and consumer's wallets.

Hey, there are many schools of thought right?
No one has tested it for sure.
Crystal energy power will purify your water, just send me 29.95$.

Are you suggesting that some plants are made up of "different nutrients" than the 16 essential nutrients green plants are made of? Red and green plants have the same basic nutrient components.

Ratios don't mean much as long as things are not limiting.
There is research and plenty of practical agricultural evidence to supoport this.

If you have some red plants that are limited, then adding this will help, but not more than it would a green plant. So it's not specific on red plants, which is what they imply.

Adding Fe can have an indirect effect also, if the tank is Fe limited, adding this will increase growth rates, that may reduce the NO3 and cause a secondary effect on Color.

Plants all grow for definable reasons.

I have done more to elucidate the reasons for color variability than Azoo ever has or will. See old APD post. Myself and several others did the work with low NO3 with several species of red aquatic plants.

Dupla made the claims about Fe back 20 years ago, Azoo is riding their coat tails, which were wrong to begin with.

So the issue is not their scientist/researchers etc, rather, their marketing dept.

There must be reasons why commerical products eg AZOO, produces iron solutions for the purpose of growing red plants. Does it mean that their researches and scientists are incompetent or did they use other approaches to derive the result?

Sure, their is a reason, they want your money.
Companies have no issue in supplying a questionable product that does not hurt, to fulfill a market. Homepathic remedies are huge market for this reason.
Echinecia was shown to have no impact on human health systems yet many still buy it.

You assume very very incorrectly, that because a company sells something, they must have done their homework.

Diet pills, do you really think all those claims they make and supposed research are correct?

Try this: search "Hydrilla pills"

Take a look:

http://store.agoodvitamin.com/rihy60foca.html

These clowns say they investigated the nutritional values of Hydrilla.
Yet, 30 PhD grad students as well as the world's foremost experts on Hydrilla could not find one single nutrional study done on humans or animals.

Not one.

Critical thinking, try it sometime.

I've heard this before perhaps a 100 times, but there is a practical element here at work and I've done plenty of that and know enough science to put the two together to get a good idea if it's baloney or not.
I can make the same claim as Azoo till the cows come home with any trace/even PO4 or CO2 can make that claim.

Fe helps green and red plants equally.
But that is the only reason it might impart better color, simply a by product of good overall health, but red and green plants have the same nutritional requirements.

It's up to the commerical vendors to support their conmtentions as much as anyone, they are gaining from misinformation without support, either knowingly, or unknowingly............
Of course how dare anyone suggest ethics that questions profit.

Look, you folks know SeaChem, they have developed a number of products directly based on what I've done and suggest.

They do not blow smoke up your butt, they list what is in there, they based their advice on sound ideas.

Azoo clearly in not even in the same league.
Copy cats.

Do not assume that businesses have the public's or consumer's best interest at heart, they have their business's interest at heart, that's what they do. They try to fill a market as well as develop a market. But the market is not the same as scientific evidence.

Do you believe all the hype with diet pills?
They make them and make claims etc aslo, but do not question them also?
Hey, as tyou say, there are many schools of thought right?
They must have done their homework right?

I have.

Then why not for Aquarium snake oil myth makers?

I've added traces for a very long time at many different levels.
I've also had plenty of red plant experience.

If they wanna come here and go toe to toe with me on it, they are welcomed too.

There's no such evidence in the research nor the observations by hobbyist to suggest red plants need any more than green plants.

You can suggest that there are many things we do not know, many schools of thought etc and that there might be little green men in the sky.

There is a sucker born every minute, maybe faster.


Regards,
Tom Barr