Nitrate managament using protein skimmer

[ms]

Hi,
I have a 4footer planted tank with cardinals and red nose. Occasionally, I have 1 death (about 1 in 3months). I changed 25% of water every 2 wks.

I read from the Marine forums that the use of a protein skimmer can help rid the undesirable nitrates that is harmful to fishes.

Can I use a protein skimmer for fresh water planted tank?

MS

[Justikanz]

Simple answer is 'No'.

Why no? Protein skimmers work on the generation of small bubbles, which increases the air-water interface which traps the proteins. The excess proteins will then be seen as a 'scum' layer and can be skimmed off.

Fresh water, being less dense, than salt water, is DIFFICULT to have the proteins attached themselves to the air-water interfaces and thus the skimmer CAN work but at such inefficient rates, they are NOT RECOMMENDED. And, in planted tanks, the aeration will cause the dissipation of CO2, not good for the plants...

[Johnc]

I don't think a skimmer removes nitrate, for that you need a denitriter. In any case, if your tank is heavily planted, you would not have problem with nitrite or nitrate. It is highly unlikely that your fish deaths are due to that.

/John

[Justikanz]

Oh, I missed that part TOTALLY...

Protein skimmers do NOT remove nitrates per se... They remove excess proteins BEFORE they have a chance to break down to become nitrates eventually...

But, really no point in getting skimmers for fresh water set ups...

[ms]

OK, thanks.
Next question, how do I cut down the amount of 'work' to be done on my tank? I have a canister filter (Atman 3337), which, I think is able to cycle the amount of water in the tank.

Can I add in a smaller, overhanging filter, just to 'clean' the water more? I do not want to change water too often....maybe once every 2 months?

MS

[Justikanz]

There are no shortcuts... Nitrate conversion is not as easy as when ammonia gets converted to nitrites and the nitrites to nitrates...

If your tank is heavily planted, you don't have to worry about nitrates.

If your tank is a low tech planted tank, you don't have to change water at all...

If it is a fish only, you would still need to change water... That is to reduce the nitrates in water... No escaping from the task...

[ranmasatome]

if you're lazy to change water.. go low tech.

[michael lai]

Dear MS,
There are no short cuts here, so it is important that you get your water parameters right. Give your tank ample time to set in, with a 4 footer fluctuations are very low once your biological system cuts in.

[ms]

Hi,





Thanks for all the inputs. This is how my tank looks like, just took the pictures last night. As you can see, it is fairly well planted.

Everytime after I changed water, I can see the black/brown loose stuffs on the gravel. I siphoned these out everytime.
I feed the fishes once every 2 days, so I do not know if these are fish droppings or some other stuffs.

Will having an extra filter help?

MS

[Johnc]

Hmm... this is a nice tank, but in my opionion, it is still quite sparsely planted. However, your bioload is not that high either so you should not have a nitrate/nitrite problem.

I suspect that since you feed your fish only once in two days, that you may have a problem with under-nourishment. Try feeding them more regularly: at least once if not twice a day.

The brown stuff is either leftover fish food or fish poo. Make sure that the fish finish the food within 2 or 3 minutes after you feed them, otherwise the excess will just sink to the bottom and give you a problem with water quality.
It is better to feed small quantities regularly than large quantities infrequently.

In any case, you can either siphon the detritis out or install another filter or upgrade to a more powerful one.

/John

[ms]

Thanks for your advice. The brown stuffs are definately not left over fish food. I feed thm flakes, and everytime they wipeout the food in no time!!

As for additional filter, any recommendations? I saw one like a waterfall type which hang on the edge of the tank, but I don't think I have space for it. Can I just use an additional smaller internal one which just suck from the bottom and spit out water from the top?

Thanks again.

I will try to feed fishes more offen, but I'm worried about too much fish poo.

MS

[Justikanz]

You can add another filter packed with finer wool to clean the water. If the current is too strong, you might just want to use the extra filter as and when for 'house' cleaning i.e. do NOT rely on it as biological filter.

[ms]

Hi Justikanz,
Any specific recommendations?

Thanks.

MS

[Justikanz]

You might want to use an internal filter... But that is entirely up to you. HOTs are also fine... As long as the media is fine wool, the smaller particles will be trapped and removed. You can then wash the filter and keep it for another round of polishing later...

[michael lai]

Hi MS,
You might want to try the Ehiem internal 2010 with the taiwan wool (c32auntie is selling at 10 bucks. The package includes green and white wool and some packets of bacterial. Have been testing this wool product for about a month, the results are good.
Reason for the ehiem 2010 is because when you take out the cannister, the dirt will not overflow back into the tank. Very neat design. Hope the info helps.

[doublej]

u might wanna check out wheter u have dropped anything accidentally into the tank anot...

my tigers were dying for the pass few days in numbers...
and i found a lead piece lying in my tank(mayb dropped it in when untying new plants bought form lfs).. haiz...