Cross breeding different species of Apistogramma

[Cacatuoides]

Hey benny,

Just a thought here from your earlier comment in the gatherings thread...

Why can't we cross breed A. cacatuoides 'orange flash' and A. trifasciata 'Guapore red' together? Won't we get an even more impressive apistogramma with a mix of 'orange flash' caca pattern with Guapore red colors? Hehehe

[hwchoy]

Because cross-breeding, especially for animals, is bad. you are mixing and creating new genotype (gene pool).

Note this is a completely different thing from selective breeding or strain, such as colour variant, or larger fin, etc.

[CacaManiac]

i discourage cross breeding of any sort... i think we should let Nature take it's own course to mutate colour variations..

whether it's possible or not.. not good la.. Hybrid fish.. see Louhan arghhh wat a nightmare!

As with Selective Breeding.. i agree with hwchoy that's it's different.. it's like trying to get the best out of the species.. but have to watch out for inbreeding problems too.

[yorky]

Caca,

I second Choy in his opinions.

Apistogramma cacatuoides Super Red/ Orange Flash existed due to selective breeding. That's as far as it should go..

Also, I don't think you can cross A. cacatuoides with A. trifasciata. If you like a fish with such colours & body form, you might want to consider the Apistogramma baenschi aka Inka.

Anyway, I know its just a mischievious thought. If you look at the range of colour/body form/finnage available in the Apistogramma genus, its very wide ranging and has a mix of everything.

[Fei Miao]

Selective breeding to improve a strain-Yes
Cross-breeding-No
Instinctively the wild, crossing breeding between strains almost never occurs, IMO if it occurs, it probably due to extreme environmental cirumstances for survival.

IMHO Let's keep it that way

[benny]

Some good comments above.

Have you guys seen the Apistogramma spp. "blue steel" in the shops? It's very attractively priced at S$1 to S$2. That is a hybrid fish and hardly command any respect and attention for obvious reasons.

Incidently, fishes can cross breed if they belong to the same species complex. As such, it is important to take note of which species of fishes you keep in the same tank. For example, Apistogramma pertensis and Apistogramma iniridae should not be kept together. Anyway, once you mix them up, it's almost impossible to separate the female out.

Cheers,

[Cacatuoides]

Oops, looks like i've accidentally typed in guapore red colors.....
Didn't know one naughty thought of mine will spur up such an interesting but rather important discussion here......I too agree that we don't cross breed the fishes ourselves which might lead to undesirable results.....

[hwchoy]

not only we don't do it ourselves, when the occasion presents itself we should stand up and help others realise what a mistake it is. as this occasion has so amply demonstrated. I am proud of you guys *pat pat pat*

not only that, but everyone *even yorky! heehee* is typing their beloved fish names in italics! wah seh! I so moved until have to lao bak sai already.

well, if you have a hybrid, you wouldn't be able to italicise its name

[yorky]

Caca, the forum serves to facilitate ideas and thoughts.
Keep those thoughts coming!

[yorky]

Choy, thanks for the pointers... I'm learning too!

[Fei Miao]

Cacatuoides,

Good that you sound out what you feel. It's only bringing such topics that we can learn. Everyone's learning.

If everbody keeps quiet, nobody learn anything And it will be sooo..ooo boring here

[ranmasatome]

just gotta say.. a BIG FAT NO...

[benetay]

Sometimes when you want to cross something, "not say cross will cross"...

For eg: Dr Uwe romer did a test...a A. mendezi vertical caudal pattern with a female A. paucisquamis vertical caudal pattern, these two fishes look almost a like, like a pair...

Yes it did spawn but eventually the mother knew it went wrong and ate up her spawn, it happen quite a few times. After which he change into an A. paucisquamis male & it did the job well..

But at the end of the day, please no A. trifasciata + A. cacatuoides!! Don't want the caudal to become like an A. viejita...and the colour will be in a mess.

[mickthefish]

i agree with what has been said , to cross-breed any fish and we will be as bad as those people who bred fish such as the flowerhorn or the parrot cichlid.
if it's accidental then the fry should be destroyed so as not to be passed on to the public.
mick

[Cacatuoides]

Oh no, just realised a misunderstanding here....

The post where I typed in mixing orange flash with tri red, what i actually meant was orange flash and triple red!!! Not A. trifasciata Guapore red.....oops

Suddenly realise this misconception after going through the earlier post.....but good to spur up an interesting topic for all....

[benny]

Oh no, just realised a misunderstanding here....

The post where I typed in mixing orange flash with tri red, what i actually meant was orange flash and triple red!!! Not A. trifasciata Guapore red.....oops

Suddenly realise this misconception after going through the earlier post.....but good to spur up an interesting topic for all....

Oops! Partly me fault in the editing when I splited out the thread!

In any case, I think this is an important topic to warrant a separate discussion. So let's roll with it.

Cheers,

[Cacatuoides]

No problem at all benny, i'm glad to have brought out this important topic too....
shall not have another craze over hybrid fishes like luohans again.....
Its good that we share and express what we feel so as to learn from each other and prevent mis-happenings.....

cheers!

[CacaManiac]

so is it possible to do so? as in mixing these 2 strains?
since they are the same species, i think they breed.. i'm just not sure what kinda new gene pool will form.

[Cacatuoides]

You mean breeding caca triple red and Orange flash??

Not sure of that, it'll be good for the veterans to answer that....

[benny]

so is it possible to do so? as in mixing these 2 strains?
since they are the same species, i think they breed.. i'm just not sure what kinda new gene pool will form.

Mixing two different variants of Apistogramma cacatuoides is fine. The result of the spawn may not yield the desired fin coloration, but the body shape will not be affected as they are the same species.

Cheers,