Cloudy water. Filter issue?

[grey_fox]

Tank Dimensions (LxWxH, specify units): 5 x 2 x 2 feet

Lighting Intensity(No of Watts) :432W
Number and type of Lighting (FL/PL/MH) : T5 HO 4 x 10,000K + 4 x 6,500K
Age of light bulbs : 2 1/2 months
No. of hours your lights are on : 10 hours

CO2 Injection Rate (bps) : 5-6 bps
Type of CO2 (DIY/Cylinder) : Cylinder
Method of Injection (e.g. Diffusor/Reactor) : Internal reactor

Liquid fertilisers Used (Product name. E.g. Seachem Flourish) : LushGRO-AQUA, Seachem Flourish Iron, KNO3, K2SO4, Fleet Enema (Phosphate)

Fertilization regime (Frequency and amount per dose) : 4 x weekly (KNO3 + K2SO4 + Fleet Enema) 3 x weekly (LushGRO-AQUA + small bit of Seachme Iron)

Other fertilisers (Product name. E.g. Root Monster) : Basefert Sera Flowderpot

Other additives (Product name. E.g. Seachem Prime) : N.A

Type of Filter (overhead/internal/canister, Product name/model if possible) : 2 x Jebao 918 External canisters @ 1200hr/L each

When was the filter last washed : 2 months ago
Filter media used : Bioballs, ceramic rings, filter wool, glasswool.
When was the media last changed : 2 months ago
What was changed : Filter wool + disposal of activated carbon

Age of setup (i.e. since initial setup or last major re-do ) : 3 weeks since last major redo

Water change frequency : once per week

Amount changed : 50%

Water surface movement (None/gentle/turbulent) : gentle
Circulation (None/gentle/turbulent) : gentle

Tank Temperature : 27.6 - 28.5

Chemical Properties (Fill what you can)
-------------------------------------
KH (dKH): 4
GH (dGH): ??
pH : 6.6
NH4 (ppm): ??
NO2 (ppm): ??
NO3 (ppm): 9.05PPM
PO4 (ppm): 1.42PPM
Fe (ppm): 0.84PPM

Bioload (Number and type of fish and plants)
------------------------------------------
Java Fern, Blyxa, Hairgrass, Windelov fern, e.tellenus, e.rose, e. amazon, neon congo black widow rummy nose, etc

Describe your problem : The water seems cloudy. Could this be due to the filter media or is it just a bacteria boom due to weekly 50% water change? Flora & Fauna are all really healthy, except for the case of BGA in gravel line, no signs of hair algae, bba, etc. I feed the fishes once a day. Also before the major re-do, the water was clear, however after this major re-do, I have not been able to clear up the water.
----------------------

[AquaObsession]

Guess that the bacteria is still settling down... Hmm what major redo was that?

Change of gravel/substrate?

when you filled up ur tank after redo, did you drain out the water fully...and filled up again slowly/gently..

[grey_fox]

Hey AquaObesession,

I added more gravel and levelled it as well. When I did the re-scape, 50% of the water was siphoned out and for water changes, water top ups were done really slowly ensuring that the substrate is not disturbed.

3 weeks isn't a long enough time for the water to get clear huh?

[AquaObsession]

Usually when u add substrate, water get very very cloudy...

my experience (which maybe wrong)...is that..whenever i add substrate...i let the particle settle down a bit before I on filter again....or after adding substrate, i drain almost all water out, then fill again..

ur tank is very big ( and nice)... and i guess if u add subtrate with 50% water in, i guess it got cloudy...and maybe it will remain cloudy... maybe 3 weeks seem long..i guess maybe both bateria and substrate disturbance effect

what i would recommend is to do another water change... (please seek advice from others first if this is correct)...maybe water will clear..

[rtcc86]

imo , i believe that u shld just let ur filter run for 2 days....if still cloudy,do a water change...may be due to ur substrate not washed properly etc...yup..

[grey_fox]

Erm, my filter has been running for weeks on end since 1st January. Filter change was done 1 month after due to the removal of AC. After which BB was re-cultured and water became clear (not crystal) and no cloudiness.

Water changes have been made weekly, 40 to 50 percent done on a weekly basis as I am adopting the E.I standard of fertilization.

New substrate was washed thoroughly before adding to tank. I believe that if it were to be a substrate thing, the cloudiness would settle down after a week or two. Since this is week number 3, it has become a concern to me.

After the hiroshima I created in the tank (for the re-scape; believe me, it was really hiroshima, pulled up ALL the plants), the cloudiness subset over the next few days but became quite intense. I have noticed that after a few days of the 50% water change, the water would get slightly cloudy again.

I kinda guess maybe my tank is rather large and it'll take several weeks. Just wondering if 50% water change each week might be killing the beneficial bacteria? I'm thinking of having the amount reduced to 25% this coming week or maybe to wait a fortnight before having a water change.

What do you guys think?

[grey_fox]

I've attached the water quality picture. Please take a look.

[|squee|]

Stuff more wool into your tanks. Mine cleared up after I stuffed lots of wool. I threw away the old ones. Cloudiness is a very vague issue, so you have to try all angles.

[grey_fox]

Stuff more wool into your tanks. Mine cleared up after I stuffed lots of wool. I threw away the old ones. Cloudiness is a very vague issue, so you have to try all angles.

Stuff more wool into my tank or more into the filter?

Actually my question is that if the 50% WC is causing the BB to die off and then another bloom occurs during the week, before it matures, another 50% WC is done and the cycle repeats.

Could this be the cause of the cloudiness? If this is indeed true, I might reduce the WC to 25% per week or 50% every fortnight as I am practising E.I and know that without a large water column change, it's not E.I already.

I have read up on previous threads, for example, http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=15523 this clearly is a bacteria boom due to the washing of the filter media with hot water.. but for me this I don't think is the case. I believe most of you don't wash your filters unless there is a need to, correct me if I am wrong.

I guess something might not be right. Just wondering if its the WC that's causing it or the filter that's causing it.
Comments or advise needed.

[|squee|]

I've had the same problem before, in my 2ft tanks. I've tried everything, from waiting, adding more media for BB to grow, adding sponges to help mechanical flitration, used commercial water clarifiers etc... I even suspected my dosing of chemicals.

So far, the increasing of sponge material in my filter is the only one that helped.

The 50% water change might not be the cause... although vinz has reported that his area's water is bad and large water changes cause the BB to die and fish to die as well. Search for his posts.

Perhaps vinz or others with big tanks like yours can help... I can only do so much with my 2ft tanks experience.

[solonavi]

My was giving me cloudy water for quite sometime also. Waiting for >3 weeks and still nvr improve. Thus when out and buy another pack of biohome. 2days later, water started to clear up.

Juz sharing my experience.
JC

[zenscape]

Greyfox, when i started my 4ft, it took 2 mths before my tank water is crystal clear. I tried a few things. Yes, Biohome is effective. Get those red colour which contains BB for new start up. Maybe you can mix those white and red together which is more cost effective. Another option is to try Seachem "Clarity". If all else fail, conside Diatom filter.

Needless to say, when cleaning filter, use only the existing tank water and add anti chlorine when changing water.

[grey_fox]

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

Another question, what is Biohome? is it some liquid or some filter media? Anyone has a picture of what it looks like (packaging, etc) ?

[PeterGwee]

Some form of bio media (surface for bacteria to grow on...). Adding more bio-media as well as adding more old "mulm" from established tanks will help if your problem comes from die off of bacteria population.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[zenscape]

yes. Take care of your filter media first.

If you want to know more of Biohome, see this link: http://aqua-bio.com/en/biohome/biohome.html

Do you mean you use those black plastic Bio Balls that can be seen in those green colour internal co2 reactors? If so, I think they don't have enough surface area for BB to grow on. Take out the "bio ball" and replace it with Biohome and/or eheim ehi subsrat. If your filter consists of 3-4 trays, try these contents/layout (starting from the bottom) - Ceramic ring with coarse filter wool on top -> ehfi substrat -> Biohome -> or Biohome with fine wool on top.

See the specification of your filter to check how many fine wool is needed. Do not overload your filter.

[grey_fox]

yes. Take care of your filter media first.

If you want to know more of Biohome, see this link: http://aqua-bio.com/en/biohome/biohome.html

Do you mean you use those black plastic Bio Balls that can be seen in those green colour internal co2 reactors? If so, I think they don't have enough surface area for BB to grow on. Take out the "bio ball" and replace it with Biohome and/or eheim ehi subsrat. If your filter consists of 3-4 trays, try these contents/layout (starting from the bottom) - Ceramic ring with coarse filter wool on top -> ehfi substrat -> Biohome -> or Biohome with fine wool on top.

See the specification of your filter to check how many fine wool is needed. Do not overload your filter.

Hey zenscape,

Thanks for the feedback.

Yes my filter comes with 4 trays. I will use the following method that you have recommended. Guess I will do this when it is time to wash the filter, before that I will have to buy biohome or ehi substrat. I already have ceramic rings. Should this be replaced with new ceramic rings?

Just to be sure, this should be the layout (starting from bottom tray up)

4th tray - Ceramic ring with filter wool
3rd tray - Ehi Substrat
2nd tray - Bio Home
1st tray - Bio Home with fine filter wool

P/S: Where can I get biohome from?

[zenscape]

Use your old ceramic rings and try to retain matured stuff in your filter media. Don't wash your filter media too offen. If there are two fine wool, only change one at a time. The key is to let your bio filter to mature ASAP.

I don't really wash my filter often, perhaps once every half a year. I learnt it from an owner of a LFS who has a pristine and cystal clear display planted tank. He told me he had not washed his filter for 2 years so as not to disturb the bacteria in it! But that is too drastic for me. I think at least regular maintenance is necessary, for example, after a major rescaping..

The biohome has been in my filter for about 2 years. I just rinse them with tank water whenever i clean the filter and I only change one of the fine wool filter pad when i clean the filter. So far so good, I don't have cloudy water problem after the initial 2 mth of newly set up. Fishes have been happy

Most of the good LFS will have stock of Biohome. i got mine from C328 and NA. There are two types:- red and white. The red one has BB and speed up cycle for new set ups.

The game plan is to have a little patience. Once your tank is matured, things will run smoothly for you.

[grey_fox]

Hey zenscape.

My tank was started on 1st January 2006, I have only washed the filter once for some reason.

Currently after that initial wash I have not washed the media as yet. I have done a major rescape but did not wash the filter, so I believe that might've been the cause perhaps?

I just bought 2 boxes of Efhi Substrat, since I have 2 canisters, would this be sufficient or not?

Yes I have 2 filters wools in my canister setup currently. Instead of Biohome, can I use Efhi Substrat instead or should I also get Biohome as well or more Efhi Substrat?

Also, can I not wash the filters but just add the substrat in instead? Btw, its only $10 per box, theres an offer going on at the LFS near my place, last 6 boxes, so if I should get more, I'll be the remaining.

[grey_fox]

O.K,

I've added in the Efhi Substrat to the bottom tray. Did the normal Saturday routine of 50% water change + dosing of ferts.

Now this is the layout of my filter trays (x2)



Now, the last thing to do is wait.

[vratenza]

bro, I am trying out the EI method as well...... but frankly speaking, the ideology of the method is sound but there is a few pitfall which i feel has not been sorted out or thought through.....

1) This method is not to be used for tanks that has only been set up or after a large revamp......esp for large tanks.......... the BB does not have time to mature when u do the weekly 50%......that is especially if u are topping up the 50% water with tap water..... unless you are using only aged and de-chlorinated/chloramined water...........which is not possible with large tanks......i think for such tanks, the tank should be allowed to mature and doing measured dosing of ferts with minimal water change before starting/restarting on the EI

2) Frequent large water changes may be good for the plants cause it "resets" the condition quickly but not good for fauna.........Fishes/shrimps don't do well with frequent large water change as it upset the parameters too much...especially for more sensitive fish........cardinal/discus......That's why we float/condition the fishes/shrimps before adding to the tank while I have never heard of people doing that for plants.....so in summary, EI may need to be modified (eg. less frequent and smaller water changes ) to suit both plants and fauna...... unless you are only concerned about the plants....

Update us on your cloudy water issue!