Help me analyse, please

[black17]

Hi all, having a bit of nagging algae problem and haven't been able to keep it in control. I was hoping that you could help point me in the right direction. Your assistance is much appreciated.


Tank Dimensions:60cm x 30cm x 35cm

Lighting Intensity: 72Watts
Number and type of Lighting (FL/PL/MH) :2 x 36watts PL
Age of light bulbs :1.5 months
No. of hours your lights are on :Used to be 10, now 8 hrs

CO2 Injection Rate (bps) : ~4 - 5 bps
Type of CO2: Pressurized/cylinder
Method of Injection: difussor

Liquid fertilisers Used : Nutrifin Plant Gro NPK
Fertilization regime: Alternate days, based on the label, by dosing 4 capsful, will put me within the recommended EI range (still trying to fuly understand EI).

Other fertilisers : Nutrifin trace with chelated iron

Other additives: -

Type of Filter: 2nd hand eheim 2234
When was the filter last washed : -
Filter media used : EHFI SUBSTRAT, apart from the course & fine filter pads
When was the media last changed : new media
What was changed :-

Age of setup: 3.5 months

Water change frequency nce a week
Amount changed :40 - 50%

Water surface movement: more than gentle
Circulation: gentle

Tank Temperature :26 - 27C

Chemical Properties (Fill what you can)
-------------------------------------
KH (dKH):~4
GH (dGH):
pH :~6.5
NH4 (ppm):
NO2 (ppm):
NO3 (ppm):
PO4 (ppm):
Fe (ppm):

Bioload (Number and type of fish and plants)
------------------------------------------
4 rummy nose(s?)
4 harlequins rasboras
6 neon tetras
1 dwarf puffer
2 kuhlii loaches

nana
java ferns
java moss
mayaca
e. tenellus
riccia
some crypts
cabomba
(sorry, very bad with plant names, but can see my tank I posted earlier)

Describe your problem :
----------------------
Sigh... algae problems. Hair algae mostly on the moss, green spot, a bit of staghorn, mild case of BGA, and brown algae.

What I have been trying:
Reduce the photoperiod.
Increase distribution of CO2 by using a small internal filter with output just above the diffusor. Fine bubbles can be seen at the tank end that's furthest from diffusor.
Manually removing algae - no fun at all.
Reducing lights to 36W.
Increased CO2 till fish went to surface, but even turning it down after that, fish looked distressed, therefore had to turn down more. Have tried various amounts of C02, can't seem to get the right dose.

Question: (First of many, sorry)
I'm thinking that the C02 is not efficiently dissolving - a thinking that is against the EI principle. Would it make a difference if I changed to a reactor?

Would using a reactor in a 57 liter tank be too much of an extreme?

Well, I don't wish to bore everyone with all this text, so for a start, help me tackle this first. Thanks guys.

[|squee|]

Is there a picture of your tank you could provide? There are two possiblities here: your CO2 and your plant mass.

[PeterGwee]

black17, do a big clean up of the tank. Uproot plants and trim well (remove all trace of algae) before returning it to the tank. Clean wood/stones and equipment well. Do a large water change of say 70-80% and dose well/watch the CO2 closely.

Your nutrafin Plant Gro NPK is likely too lean (you might need to dose alot to hit the target N,P,K amount).

4-5bps is way too much for a 2ft tank imo...you are shedding alot of CO2 from the look of things. All you need is good surface movement enough to move flake food around rapidly and shut the CO2 off at night. Fish gasp when CO2 is too high and/or low O2. You need to do the CO2 incremental method slowly!!!

Regards
Peter Gwee

[black17]

Is there a picture of your tank you could provide? There are two possiblities here: your CO2 and your plant mass.

Hi squee. Here's a pic. Hope it helps.



See if you could make something out of it. TQ.

[black17]

Hi Peter. So what you're suggesting is pretty much like an overhaul, yes? Was afraid of that.

Question: (a newbie alert)
Am I correct to assume an overhaul of this level, I would have to clear everything like remove fishes (or can I leave them in the tank?), clean the sand partly of mulm - pretty much treat it like a re-scape?

If I re-use the tank water, would it re-introduce algae?

-------------------------------------------------------
As for the Nutrafin NPK, it states on the label the following:
1 capful = 10ml per 70litre to provide 3.5ppm nitrate, 0.5ppm phosphate, 2.5ppm potassium.

I figured that my tank is 57 litres, dosing 4 capsful will be enough. Was I wrong here?

------------------------------------------------------
Peter, when you said I needed good surface movement enough to move flake food around rapidly - is this causing the shedding of C02 or do you mean if I can achieve this, I don't need such a high bps. Didn't quite understand. Anyway, based on what you say, yes I do have good surface movement.

Well, about the 1001 questions, I'm sorry but I thought I'd have to get it right sooner or later, especially on EI. Thanks Peter.

[|squee|]

The problem is with your nutrients then. You need to overdose by about 10 times... lol.

Plant mass isn't a problem from your picture. Let Peter guide you through this... he ought to be paid

[black17]

The problem is with your nutrients then. You need to overdose by about 10 times... lol.

Plant mass isn't a problem from your picture. Let Peter guide you through this... he ought to be paid

lol, squee good one...surely you are kidding - aren't you?

Seriously though, I guess, if it needs to be done, then so be it. Thanks.

Peter, what are your thoughts?

[PeterGwee]

Good cleaning up still has to be done but without removing the critters/fish. Now, the nutrients....target 10ppm of NO3, 1-2ppm of PO4, and 10ppm of K 3x a week with that Nutrafin Plant Gro fertilizer you are using (will cost alot in the long run imo.). Add some Seachem Equilibrium say 1/4 teaspoon after the weekly water change to rule out Ca/Mg deficiencies plus it adds alot of K, Fe and traces. Main thing is with the CO2 still...make sure its good (30ppm if accurate..highly likely even with very good test kits. Can come close to at most +/- 5ppm) and respond fast enough. It should be 30ppm from ambient (3-4ppm) within an hour or so.

Nothing will work if the CO2 is not well taken care off.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[|squee|]

Of course I was kidding... that'll give you about 30ppm of NO3 if you overdose by 10 times... and no one in their right mind will continue doing that with the same product.

Just do what PeterGwee has instructed. Algae-fights are pretty standard steps, you'll notice that almost all instructions given are almost the same.

[black17]

Good cleaning up still has to be done but without removing the critters/fish. Now, the nutrients....target 10ppm of NO3, 1-2ppm of PO4, and 10ppm of K 3x a week with that Nutrafin Plant Gro fertilizer you are using (will cost alot in the long run imo.). Add some Seachem Equilibrium say 1/4 teaspoon after the weekly water change to rule out Ca/Mg deficiencies plus it adds alot of K, Fe and traces. Main thing is with the CO2 still...make sure its good (30ppm if accurate..highly likely even with very good test kits. Can come close to at most +/- 5ppm) and respond fast enough. It should be 30ppm from ambient (3-4ppm) within an hour or so.

Nothing will work if the CO2 is not well taken care off.

Regards
Peter Gwee

Hi Peter, am I correct to assume the following:

If, 1 capful Nutrafin NPK = 10ml per 70litre to provide
3.5ppm nitrate,
0.5ppm phosphate,
2.5ppm potassium, then

assuming that it is safe to dose more, I can reach the target you outlined earlier with 4 capsful of the fert? Will it be beneficial if I up the target range by a bit more? You are right about the long run cost. A 1500ml bottle costs me RM20.

About Seachem Equillibrium, I hardly see it on the shelves in Malaysia. Any other popular brand that you have tried and worked?

Will report on the amount of C02 later.

Thanks Peter.

Regards, Steven

[black17]

Of course I was kidding... that'll give you about 30ppm of NO3 if you overdose by 10 times... and no one in their right mind will continue doing that with the same product.

Just do what PeterGwee has instructed. Algae-fights are pretty standard steps, you'll notice that almost all instructions given are almost the same.

Yeah, squee, my mind wasn't thinking straight about the overdose. It was clouded by cost of the fert.

I know I have read both Peter's and your threads and replies many times. But somehow, when it is time to apply these steps, I became overwhelmed.

By the way, I know you are using a diffusor, how do you spread the C02 around? Powerhead or rain bar? As Peter mentioned, I'm probably losing a fair bit of C02. I have stopped using the HOB. My canister outlet is just below the water surface and my diffusor is located below the output - about 2 cm from the substrate. Using an internal filter to blow out the bubbles.

How does this measure up to your set up?

TQ. Steven