When to start fertilising?

**Hanako** · 21st Jun 2006, 11:29

Hi, I have a 2ft tank and using ADA powersand and Aquasoil. Will be growing glosso and riccia, anubias nana, hairgrass, cabomba and maybe another stem plant.

My question is, do I have to start my fertilisation regime straight away after the planted tank set up, or there is no such need as I have a nutrient layer substrate? The LFS gave me a bottle of Jaqno fertiliser for free, he said it's very good, so I was just wondering when I should start using that.

**grey_fox** · 21st Jun 2006, 12:21

You don't need to start it off immediately. I waited almost a month odd after my setup, before I began the fertilisation regime.

**PeterGwee** · 21st Jun 2006, 12:46

Immediate.

Regards
Peter Gwee

**grey_fox** · 21st Jun 2006, 12:48

Ok, the man said it, immediate then.

**mordrake** · 21st Jun 2006, 13:31

yes, immediate to get the plants settled in and provide nutrients for healthy growth from the onset. this definitely help to guard against algae issues related to new tank setups.

**kemp** · 21st Jun 2006, 15:50

foolish me, i always thought that i would need to wait for at least 2-4weeks before starting the regime.

**Hanako** · 21st Jun 2006, 16:06

guys, i have been reading about fertilisation in this thread, and man, am i confused!

there's the EI method where you dose certain fertilisers certain times of the weeks. For the EI method, what's the cost of buying the KNO3, the KH2PO4, K2SO4, the Iron, and the Trace Elements?? And is there a brand for these elements that I can readily buy in LFS? And do you have to get the test kits to measure the K+, PO4, Fe and GH?

Is there like an all in one fertiliser bottle that I can just dose a few times a week? I was looking at the ADA website and it seems like the fertilising regime using ADA products is much more straightforward.

**Hanako** · 21st Jun 2006, 16:58

ok ok, i re-read Tom Barr's EI article (the simplified version, for about the 50th time today) and I now get the fert regime. It's actually quite easy. I just need to do a bit of research and find out how much those ferts all add up in cost at the end.

One thing i want to clarify is, the EI target ranges is recommended at:
NO3 range 5-30ppm
K+ range 10-30ppm
PO4 range 1-2ppm
Fe 0.2-0.5ppm or higher
GH range 3-5 degrees ~ 50ppm or higher

Can someone please enlighten me as to what does "ppm" stand for, and how am i supposed to test all the above to ensure that I am within the EI range? or do i not need to, hence that's the beauty of the EI method??

**|squee|** · 21st Jun 2006, 18:42

ppm stands for parts per million

You do not need to, hence the beauty of the EI method. Test kits are unreliable and costly and troublesome. You want to test for 5 parameters every week?

You just need to calculate out the amount of powder you need of each to get the desired concentration you want. Try the Fertilator.

**Hanako** · 21st Jun 2006, 22:51

Originally Posted by |squee|

ppm stands for parts per million

You do not need to, hence the beauty of the EI method. Test kits are unreliable and costly and troublesome. You want to test for 5 parameters every week?

You just need to calculate out the amount of powder you need of each to get the desired concentration you want. Try the Fertilator.

Thanks squee! no, i don't want to test all the 5 parameters at all!

Your url link to the Fertilator does not work. can you re-send to me again?

**|squee|** · 21st Jun 2006, 23:27

APC has been down for the whole day... I think they're trying to fix it up. Check back tommorrow! The main site is http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com
You can see the "Fertilator" icon at the top in blue.

**dc88** · 22nd Jun 2006, 21:29

You can try Chuck's calculator too.
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_p...osage_calc.htm

**Plantbrain** · 25th Jun 2006, 15:18

I think one thing will really help folks about when to fertilize:

Many times folks say not to fertilize right away, I ask "why"?
Answer: algae

Yet when folks trim their plants and rplant the cuttings, is this not like a new tank's plants without the roots being established?

ADA likes top profess about the roots being established as the reason and then they will start to add fertilizer.

So why not stop fertilizing anytime we prune our tanks if this is really true and the reason not to fertilize?

This does not make sense to me.

So what is the real reason we get algae in the start?
NH4 namely, not enough plants/plant biomass from day one.

Adding activated carbon and lots plants from day one helps solve any such issue.

ADA cannot tell you how much plant biomass nor knows what type of scape layout you plan. But I just tell folks to add as much as they possibly can from day one, whatever the layout design.

New folks and experts alike often have troubles in the start up phase, namely from not adding enough, CO2, NO3 etc.

If you add enough plant biomass and fertilize right away, this gives the plants better growth and helps them established much faster.

Do you tend a baby plant/seedling less or more than the adult plant?
Most tend the new young plant more.

Same applies here to a new tank and new plants, tend them well and give them everything they need.

ADA aqua soil is good stuff and works well with EI, better than the ADA line of liquid ferts.

EI does not address substrate ferts, nor fish loading, but unlike Amano's iodeas, EI also knows and understands that excess PO4, NO3, Fe etc does not induce algae, and unlike any other promoter of a particular method........I actually know what induces certain specific species of algae and have remedies to prevent it in the long term and non herbicidal chemical means to solve it.

So when someone says it causes algae, they better have had some good background and done their homework to prove what I've been seeing for 15 years is wrong.

EI runs things rich and ADA runs things leaner and the Aqua soil substrate allows more flexibility with leaner dosing routines........but to what advantage?
Reduced work?
No.......
ADA still suggest daily dosing etc, still suggest large weekly water changes etc.

There is little difference in dosing 1-2 things vs 2-3 things.
Takes about the same amount of time.

Cost: almost free for the KNO3, KH2PO4 etc
ADA?

**Hanako** · 26th Jun 2006, 15:35

plantbrain, it's an interesting feedback. one lfs said that you don't need to start fertiling until 1 month later. another lfs said that you need to start fertiling within 1 week of planting, so it gets quite confusing for the newbies especially since lfs is supposed to have the experience in setting up tanks and planting.

great to hear that ada soil works better with EI, more so than the ADA liquid ferts, because those ADA liquid ferts are sure costly (altho one lfs has said that he had tried many types, including the EI method, and think that dennerle and ADA is on top there in terms of getting good results with their fertilisers).

**xxdivinityxx** · 26th Jun 2006, 16:49

Err hanako,

Fyi, plantbrain is Tom Barr aka "the brains behind the EI method".
Just little nuggets of information!

**Hanako** · 26th Jun 2006, 16:59

Originally Posted by xxdivinityxx

Err hanako,

Fyi, plantbrain is Tom Barr aka "the brains behind the EI method".
Just little nuggets of information!

ooops, i didn't know that

. i don't think my response will be construed as slighting Mr. Barr's EI method at all.

thanks for this little nugget.

**Plantbrain** · 27th Jun 2006, 13:26

Don't fret.
I do not sell the ADA liquid ferts nor anything Dennerle sells, I'm not a LFS.......they can sell and carry EI, Dr Mallick's ferts etc for cheap, then a medium range product line and then a high line ADA fert line........

But...........let's all be honest.....what is the difference between K+ from KNO3 I get at the local agriculture feed store for 22$ for 50lbs, vs the KNO3 diluted into 500mls of water at a very low concentration for 22$? It's the same thing, the plant will use it as a same type of building block to grow. The cost difference is perhaps 100000X more.

As far as botantist/research plant mineral nutrition scientist know, there are basically only 17 essential nutrients a plant needs..........unless they by some miracle have solved the next "essential nutrient" mystery........

California alone has a 30 Billion dollar Agriculture market. If there is some way to boost growth, production etc even 5%, that means 1.5 Billion dollars more $$.

What motivation does Dennerle, ADA have? What R&D abilities do they have?
What unbiased publication support have they ever referenced?

Penac.......give me a damn break...........

If i cannot get a straight answer, I do things myself.
I'm only one guy though, and it takes time to muddle through and see what works and what is snake oil.......or what is simply marketing hype..........

Businesses are certainly allowed to sell you marketing hype..........look no further than the diet pill industry.........

So you need to be a smarter consumer and not get fooled so easily..........
Which is not a bad thing to be either......

Regards,
Tom Barr

**Hanako** · 29th Jun 2006, 15:25

one more question on EI dosing.

If i'm dosing Fe, should I not do it when I'm dosing the macros, or the trace elements, or it doesn't matter?? It wasn't really specified in Barr's article of "EI "light" for the less technical aspects of the Estimative Index".

**valice** · 29th Jun 2006, 15:35

Usually we stagger the micro and marco dosing on alternate days...
There are some people who experience precipate of phospate with iron with dose both at the same time... Most people don't...

So to prevent precipitate and render iron and phosphate insoluble, dose it on separate days...

**Hanako** · 29th Jun 2006, 17:24

thanks. so it's better not to dose Fe on the same day when dosing the (Phosphate) macro nutrients.

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