Apistogramma Nijsseni Died!

[roy]

Hello folks,

Bought a trio of A. Nijsseni (1 male, 2 female) at Pet Safaris last Friday. They were doing well over the weekend. However, when I came home on Monday night, both the females were found dead.

The remaining male seems to be doing well - eating and the colour looks right. Pondering what had gone wrong with the females. For safety sake, I measured the water parameters again - temperature 29, pH 6.8, ammonia 0 and nitrite a notch above 0.

I'm really sadden by the whole encounter and would like to find out the possible cause(s) before I buying replacement. Apistos aren't cheap! Really quite taken by these little dynamos. Advice anyone?

Cheers,
Roy

[stormhawk]

yea i had the same experience. i recently had a massive dieoff of fish in my non-CO2 planted tank. i guess it was an internal bacterial infection caused by the tubifex worms i fed them. i lost quite a number of my fish, including my prized nijsenni female and 2 of my most favourite corydoras catfish. i suggest u look more into their diet, as in what u fed them. and yeah, sometimes fishes that are imported or farm-bred may carry certain diseases which may seem harmless or undetectable to the naked eye. u might have had fishes infected with some unknown bacterial infection or some other infection. and somehow it spread. it's suggested u look more into the symptoms and how the corpses looked like when u first found them ( without them rotting beyond recognition that is). u can recognize the first signs of attack if thats what happened but to diagnose if the fish died of other causes u have to look at the root of the problem and return to the source of ur fish for answers.

regards,
stormhawk[]

[roy]

Hello,

I've got a good mix of fishes in CO2 injected planted tank so I feed a variety of food, i.e. TetraBits Complete, Sera Staple Diet flakes, Japanese brand frozen blood worm and frozen beef heart. Feeding in moderation so not to cloud the tank. Don't think any of the above-mentioned is deemed dangerous. Initially, I was kinda apprehensive about the blood worm but I was told the Japanese brand frozen blood worm is safe.

Cheers,
Roy

[bclee]

Any signs of injuries or symptoms of diseases? Any agression?

As far as I know, A. Nijsseni is quite an agressive fish. Possible to die from fights?

BC

[Simon]

internal parasite is quite hard to prevent, yes.. carefully selecting the kinda food is good, but wat abt those leftover food, apisto r known for filtering food, they r often seen search for food on the gravel..

[foxemty]

i had similiar encounters, i suspect also its internal infections when stressed the fish will sucumb to the disease. once the apisto shows sign of illness/weakening beside ich, velvet, i find that its hard to cure them

tubifex worms are extremely dangerous, almost certain there will be problems. doing water change at high freq will reduce the risk but then its still more safe to give them frozen food.

[roy]

bclee, the male was passive towards the female. The females were the ones fighting with each other. They would chase each other and occasionally locked jaws. I didn't see any harm caused to the fish so I let it be. As for observable injuries, the shrimps did a pretty good job of removing them.

simon, foxemty, it seems apistos succumb to parasites rather easily. So, what would be the preventive measures? Wouldn't want to be siphoning the gravel after every feeding or change water daily.

It also seems that the experience apistos keepers have got quite a few unanswered doubts and questions. I suppose that what’s the forum hopes to accomplish and that's to disseminate information.

Thanks,
Roy

[Simon]

we must practise good habits, like water change..etc... so far, I got ard 3-4 deaths from dropsy.. there r more deaths from fights/suicide jumps

[foxemty]

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On 7/9/2002 3:17:12 PM

simon, foxemty, it seems apistos succumb to parasites rather easily. So, what would be the preventive measures? Wouldn't want to be siphoning the gravel after every feeding or change water daily.

Thanks,
Roy

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Roy, for myself

I don't neccessary has any preventive measure, I had kind of accepted that apistos are not exactly hardy fish probably due to their size []

Almost every couple of weeks I will have casualties. Some of my apistos are living in "better and cleaner" conditions than others; no live food but I still have casualties in these tanks. But I do find clean water is the best bet to keep your fish alive longer. I must confess I don't change water often.

I do find that aggression among the apistos takes a toil on the apistos. I had one super Nijsseni male that fight with every single apistos in a community tank. Nobody is a much for him even though he is not the biggest, everyone just stay clear of him. But after a week or so I found him dead, no sign of injuries at all, probably over worked and over stressed []

[roy]

foxemty,

Hmm... is that so? The apistos go belly up whenever they feel like it. Not a problem if we are talking about guppies or cheaper variety of tetras but apistos aren't cheap. For a $20 plus fish to go belly up after 2 weeks seems a bit much. Too bad I like them. The females that died on me were doing so well - exploring, eating and causing havoc to each other. I did some replanting, all fishes stayed away but the apistos always investigate. Had to chase them away so that I could stick the plant into the gravel. Well...

Roy

[benetay]

Roy: Apisto don't go belly up when they feel like it, it's not the case.

you did some replanting could it also be the base fert that had leech into the water colume and the apisto filtered the base fert as food? We have no solid information about death after consuming base fert so we can only roughly assume that aslo maybe a issue too.

First of all A.nij are the so called "bad boy" in the apisto family i refer them to that becos due to their extreamly aggressive manner. They are not suitable for a planted community tank, even if you want to put a.nij into a community tank do be prepared to see more fishes floating around.

Secondly i prefer feeding lesser food to them compared to over feeding them, their habits of picking up excess aged food is great becos this is their character and so we must understand that under feeding them if you don't wish to clear the left over food.

From what u mentioned from the ealier posting in regards to both of your female nij doing jaw lock, is already a very "late" case of fighting which may result in serious injuries and death. So by providing more information to you, you might want to know more about them before getting them or after getting them.

There are a few books on the market which is relatively good which u might want to consider in getting them for your own knowledge.

Okay lets take it as i have a trio from PS what will i do to them, Firstly i will never ever put any A.nij family members in Trio reason being is simple they are rated aggressive scale 1-10 , 10.

Every single apisto has a different character, i have a pair of a.panduro which also lies under the A.nij family, the pair isn't really aggresive, why? They may be aggresive but they also may not be too.

Anyway it's part of fish keeping too. So have fun =)

[foxemty]

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On 7/9/2002 4:44:29 PM

foxemty,

Hmm... is that so? The apistos go belly up whenever they feel like it. Not a problem if we are talking about guppies or cheaper variety of tetras but apistos aren't cheap. For a $20 plus fish to go belly up after 2 weeks seems a bit much. Too bad I like them. The females that died on me were doing so well - exploring, eating and causing havoc to each other. I did some replanting, all fishes stayed away but the apistos always investigate. Had to chase them away so that I could stick the plant into the gravel. Well...

Roy
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Haha, maybe not so serious. But i did lose alot of apistos. Infact I just lost a female A.tri with fries [] I didn't know she had dropsy until yesterday. and she was still eating and leading the fries around.

one thing which Ben said is very true, don't overfeed. I have a tendency to overfeed especially when conditioning the fish for breeding. As i mentioned clean water is the best bet for healthy fish and try to have a set up that give the fish the lest stress. And do look out for excessive bullying and aggression. I suppose that all we can do [:]

[roy]

I know some of you folks love your apistos. When I said "they go belly up when they feel like it", I meant that figuratively not literally. Anyway, I've grew very fond of apistos just wish they're hardier.

Hmm... I wondered when I said "I've grew very fond of apistos...", does that kinda imply I don't have a life? Geez, better start prioritizing. Anyways, will be picking up apistos from Simon this evening. New apistos - can't wait []

Btw, I do research prior to doing or getting anything - fishes included. There are some conflicting information out there about apistos. Correct me if I'm wrong or read wrongly, different species of apistos may be mixed and that it's best to get a trio (1 male, 2 female) of each species to reduce squabbling. Is the statement true?

Cheers,
Roy

[stormhawk]

nope not really. some species are harem-spawners, meaning their sex ratio is 1 male to several females, while others are mated in pairs. there are others which are in a reverse trio, meaning, more males to a single female, like A. sp. "Smaragd".

Apisto-What?![]

[stormhawk]

well that statement may hold some truth but it depends all on the fishes themselves. oh yeah, i just found out my new nijsenni male is dead. kinda tough on me considering i just got it last saturday. darn. but at least my new corydoras pygmaeus are surviving.

Apisto-What?![]

[benetay]

For me even if i can breed and raise fry succuessfully regarding apisto, i still look more into them for i believe that information never ends like that saying Oh " i know all about it,which refer to a certain apisto"

If you're breeding your apisto, unless u have a big tank like a 6ft you can put in more than 1species of apisto together otherwise a pair for a tank.

There are many pointers u might want to take note. A tank with many hiding space will provide coverage for either the female or the male. Hiding space can be classfied under temp hiding or per. hiding which i further elaborate, Temporary hiding space can be beside a plant or among the dense growth of foreground plants. For permanent hiding space what i mean is cave like structure, hole in the wood that is seldom access.

Anyway Keeping,breeding,raising apisto is Fun =) lets keep the sprites uP![]

[roy]

Hmm... it seems like I've adpoted a rather haphazard way of rearing apistos. So, my question now is, which hopefully benefit beginners, what is the best starter apisto and how many to get of each sex?

Btw, I heard from the helpful staff at Pet Safari that a good approach is to get a single male for a few species than gradually add the females. Comments?

Cheers,
Roy

[Simon]

IMO, I dun believe in good starter apisto, unless u ask whats a good/attract apisto to start the ball, i guess its the A. cacatuoides.. which in some cases is the first apisto which catches a potiental apisto keeper.. in the past females r never for sale, coz sellers wanna prevent breeders from breed and selling them for his own.. so in most non-apisto lfs, usually spot lonely male apistos.. a ideal number shld be 2:1 of females to males.. number of females increase for bigger tanks

roy, hows the fishes? any prob, pls let me know

[roy]

Yeah, the A. cacatuoides look good with their flaming red or orange tails. Almost bought them but, for some reasons unknown to me, settle for the nijsseni instead. I suppose the female nijsseni with their yellow body and jet black "undercarriage" fins look good!

The rotkeil settling in quite nicely [] but the male tefe can't be found and saw only one female hiding amongst the plants. Will see how they are doing when I feed them in the morning.

Btw, love your 6 and 4 feet tanks. Thanks for the plants. Sorry you had to mess up the 4 feet to catch the elusive rotkeil. Is he out yet?

Cheers,
Roy

[Simon]

dun worry abt the tefe, once he is comfortable, u shld see him more often.. actually, the other rotkeil did came out after u were gone, but upon seeing me, he dash into hiding